Branson Unveils Plans For Concorde

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Sir Richard Branson set out his vision for the future of the doomed Concorde fleet and is pledging he can make the aeroplane both profitable and more affordable.

He says his Virgin Group is "extremely determined" to keep Concorde in the skies despite a plan by BA and Air France to ground the fleet in October.

Source:Ananova (http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_777342.html?menu=)

Thanks
BAe 146-100

[AhhhVC813]

It's all tosh, and yet more publicity. If he was genuinely serious he would make a sensible offer for two or three aircraft plus spares, say 50 million, maybe more, maybe less, after all he has the money. But at least BA would maybe take more notice of cash as opposed to talk. It's all getting very tiresome to be honest, just like buying BA shares, all hot air.

[flynverted]

BA says they're not going to sell them to Branson. My guess is they will end up in aviation museums somewhere.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Why would Branson want Concorde anyway? The aircraft has reached the end of its flying life.

Thanks
BAe 146-100

[PAXboy]

Why would Branson want Concorde anyway?Because it is an icon and attracts a certain passenger revenue that is unique. The aircraft has reached the end of its flying life. They have only reached the end of their life, because the supplier of spares and maintenance no longer wishes to provide that service. The aircraft could continue for (depending on who is speaking) 5 to 15 years.

The chances of Branson getting them are zero. As BA are not being allowed to continue with Conc, they are not going to allow anyone else to have them! BUT, since AF and Airbus have decided to stop - then Conc will stop.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Do you think passenger confidence on Concorde has gone aswell?

Regards
BAe 146-100

[WhiteDevil]

hiya,
i agree with PAXboy in this subject. Concorde is the only aircraft able to traverse the atlantic in 3-4 hours. Businessmen use these flights to get across to america to seal their business deal then jet back all in a days works - this luxury will soon die away when concorde is retired and we have to wait for the next supersonic aircraft...

WhiteDevil

[KEPIT 2 YUSEN]

I for one hope that Branson does get his hands on a couple of aircraft. They may belong to BA but a machine carrying so much national pride was developed with public money and the feelings of the nation should be taken into account. I am tired of BA's arrogance and the approach they adopt of ,"If we can't then neither can anyone else". BA is nothing like what it used to be and the "club" is getting smaller and smaller - time to step aside on this one BA - you can't have it all.

Let us hope that the government do intervene and do the right thing to keep this national treasure in the air.

If it annoys the hell out of BA, it can only be good! Go for it Richard.

[Ringwayman]

I wonder how many more times people will have to be told that it doesn't matter WHO has them, they will not be permitted to fly them past October!

Yet BA wanted to carry on operating until April; a combination of Air France and Airbus have seen it earlier than they wanted. I have heard of BA having sold seats for the LHR-BGI winter service prior to the announcement.

[brockenspectre]

Ringwayman you say Concorde is not allowed to fly beyond October? surely this is just a BA bean-counters deadline in response to the Air France earlier one? If the a/c are serviceable and the airline in question has the engineering, flight crew, airport slots etc etc and therefore meet all requirements why would they not be allowed to offer a Concorde service?

:confused:

[Ringwayman]

See this Concorde site's latest news (http://http://www.concordesst.com/latestnews.html).

[PAXboy]

Conc will stop because it's Airworthiness Certificate will be withdrawn.

I am not, usually, a conspiracry theorist but ... if BA are not able to get their pals at the CAA to withdraw said certificate - then they do not deserve to be fat cats of a worldwide organisation. :uhoh:

[carb]

I think that is what makes Branson and a lot of the media and public (check out Rod Eddington getting ambushed on Question Time earlier this evening!!) all the more determined to make a fuss - we're seeing a big stitch-up taking place and it's great fun to fight it.

[Pirate]

British Airways management should reflect on the fact that they do not own the Concordes. They were paid for by the British taxpayers when BA was in public ownership. Instead of the dog in the manger attitude that if we can't fly them, nobody can, they should gracefully give way and allow someone else to try out a business plan.

Virgin, or whoever, may fail but it is better to fail magnificently than not to try. Anyway, it might just work. If you need pilots, Sir Richard, put me down for the first conversion course - I'm very experienced with sixties-vintage British jets (OK, I know the French did a bit, too).

Confundemus :O

[Hand Solo]

Well don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant Pirate! The £1 Branson loves to quote is simply a common accountancy practice to keep the finances simple. Over the 30 odd years of oepration BA have paid millions to the UK government in fees and revenue percentages as part of the deal to operate Concorde - around £155 million in fact. Plus they have footed the bill for every expensive retrofit and modernisation to the fleet. They've built up and maintained an extremely costly and labour intensive maintenance organistion of highly skilled engineers, mechanics and craftsman to service the aircraft. They've maintained an extremely expensive pilot and flight engineer training system. Most significantly, BA, in conjunction with Air France, turned Concorde into what it is today - the pinnacle of air travel. That level of prestige took time, nurturing and a hell of a lot of money to achieve. There is a common saying at sales schools that one should always 'Sell the sizzle, not the sausage'. Well some of the aircraft enthusiasts on here, myself included, are particularly fond of this old sausage, but its the sizzle that brings in the money and that wasn't handed over by the British government for a pound.

Branson doesn't want the aircraft, he just need the oxygen of publicity. He can't afford to run or maintain them, he can't find qualified trainers to fly them t train his pilots, he can't source enough qualified engineers or mechanics to keep them airworthy, he can't afford the necessary life extension programs to the airframe, and he knows it. Thats why he's made no attempt to buy the Air France aircraft and no attempt to preserve the simulator at Filton. Concorde is more than just the sum of its parts, its the aircraft and the vast infrastructure to support it and even if BA gave him the aircraft they'd be nothing without that infrastructure. The best analogy I've seen is that Concorde is like a 200 year old oak tree. You can cut it down and move it to your garden so it looks pretty, but you can't take its roots and without that its nothing. Branson should stop whinging and duping the public with false promises to fly the aircraft which he knows he can't deliver.

[Pirate]

Hand Solo

I'm sorry that you feel my post was a "rant" - it was promulgated in good faith to put a legitimate point of view. I know that operating costs are huge, but so do most airline executives, I should imagine. My argument was that as BA had acquired the aeroplanes for free it would be better to let them go to someone prepared to fly them, rather than half a dozen museums.

I don't know your antecedents but the average Brit in the street is immensely proud of this beautiful piece of engineering and would rather like to see it flying a little longer.

Confundemus

[Hand Solo]

We'd all like to see it flying a little longer, which is why BA are keeping it in service until October whilst Air France is ditching the old bird in May, but the suggestion that Branson could keep it flying even a tiny bit longer is simply absurd. There is no commercial basis whatsoever for Branson to fly it a little bit longer, it could only make financial sense to fly it for a lot longer and given the current state of the industry the start up costs would be likely to exceed the net value of Virgin Atlantic itself (of which he only owns 51% anyway). This is, and always has been, little more than a cheap publicity stunt which will lead to the dashing of a few public hopes.

The idea that BA got these aircraft free is equally prepostorous. Even if they had (and the accounts show they didn't), they had very deep pockets when it came to the mods required to regain the C of A. Without BAs influence its likely that the last commercial flight of the Concorde fleet would have ended in a field in Gonesse. Bransons suggestion that BA received the aircraft for next to nothing then sat back and milked the profits is insulting to the people who've put so much dedication into keeping her flying for so long.