license progression in the UK

[Onan the Clumsy]

I've been reading these forums for a while and I seem to get more and more confused with the licensing requirements in the UK. I did almost all my flying in The States which seems to be a little different. Can anyone explain it for me please?


In the US the typical progression is as follows...

Private - needs 40 hrs, at least 17 years old
Instrument - no hourly requirement
Commercial - 250 hrs, at least 18 years old
Multi Engine - hourly requirements already met by single engine flying, usually combined with an instrument rating
Instructor - no hourly requirement, must be commercial and have taken spin training
Instrument Instructor
Multi engine Instructor
ATP - 1500 hrs at least 23 years old (and have a commercial certificate?)

...though you could legally go directly from zero to Commercial Multi Engine Instrument if you wanted. You can also get glider qualifications and use some of the time for power qualifications.

The Private, Commercial and Instructor qualifications are considered certificates whereas the Instrument and Multi Engine qualifications are considered ratings, ie additions to an existing certificate.

Instructor certificates need renewing every two (calendar) years and this can be done by getting another instructor certificate, taking a refresher course or (I think) by submitting ten candidates, eight of whom have to pass.

You need to take a written test for Private, Commercial, Instrument and any Instructor certificate. You also need to take the Fundamentals of Instructing written test, but only for your first instructor certificate.

To maintain any other certificate, you must pass a flight review which is an hour in the air and an hour in groundschool with an instructor every two calendar years. Obtaining another certificate or rating counts for this.

There are some other endorsements as well such as tailwheel aircraft and high performance aircraft and certificates are appropriate for certain classes and categories of aircraft (such as glider, seaplane etc)

Finally the hourly requirements I quoted are for training under Part 61 and they can be reduced to 30 (pvt) and 190 (comm) hrs if training is done at a recognised school under part 141. The resulting qualifications are the same.


I guess it's not so simple over here after all. : )

[FlyingForFun]

No, certainly not simple! But not all that different to our system (which is defined by the JARs):

License - either PPL (minimum 45 hours, 17 years old) or CPL (minimum 200 hours, 18 years old, and either CPL exam credits or ATPL exam credits).

Class Rating such as Single Engine Land or Multi Engine Land.

Type Rating such as B737, required for all multi-pilot aircraft, and a small number of unusually complex single-pilot aircraft.

Instrument Rating. Identical in priveleges to an FAA IR, and in theory can be added to a PPL or a CPL. In practice, the amount of groundschool (either IR exam credits or ATPL exam credits are needed) makes this prohibitive for PPLs.

IMC Rating (a UK-only license, not defined by JARs and not recognised outside the UK) allows pilots to fly in IMC, outside controlled airspace, only in the UK. Typically added to a PPL instead of an IR.

ATPL - Minimum 1500 hours, of which at least 500 must be on a multi-pilot aircraft, as well as ATPL exam credits, a CPL and an IR.

Frozen ATPL, or ATPL(f), or fATPL - An informal term for ATPL exam credits, CPL and IR, but insufficient hours, or hours of the wrong type, to hold a full ATPL.

Extremely over-simplified. I haven't mentioned instructor ratings, or multi-crew courses, or renewal/revalidation requirements. I've simplified the minimum requirements for some items, and left them out of others. But it should at least give you an idea! As you can see, most of the terms which are common to the UK/US system have roughly the same meaning - which is lucky, really! :D

Also worth noting that anyone who's had a license more than a few years will have an old CAA license, which is different to the JAA licenses which I've described. Most of the terms are comparable with JAA/FAA terms. The most significant difference is that an ATPL still requires 1500 hours, but there is no requirement for 500 of that to be multi-pilot. Instead, 100 hours of it must be P1-night (which apparently is very difficult to do if you're lucky enough to get a job quickly, because you'll most likely be logging P2 and not P1).

FFF
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[Onan the Clumsy]

Thanks. It was the repeated mentioning of ATPL, frozen and otherwise, that was throwing me, but I think I understand it now.

Yes, I forgot to mention type ratings. Required over here for straight turbine, or anything over 12,500lbs. No requirement for multi crew and nothing for special/specific aircraft types that I know of, unless you get into the warbird arena which starts operating under LoAs (Letters of Authority), according to John Deakin on Avweb.

[Flying surfer]

So if I understand you correctly if one holds an "old" CAA FAPTL then they are exempt from having to have 500 hrs multi crew when they reach there 1500 hrs providing they meet all other requirements??

I understood this was no longer as soon as the new rules came into force, I hold an old verson (qualified May 2000) but thought I needed the 500 hrs.
:confused:

[Tinstaafl]

Oz version

No licence: May train upto but not including the solo parts of a course

Student licence: Min age 17(16? Can't remember) Issued by the flying school. Allows solo training flights. Can fly a max. of 3hrs solo before you must do a dual check. After min. 20hrs (15dual, 5 solo) may do the 'General Flying Progress Test' (GFPT). This lets you take passengers with you in the training area. Can't go anywhere else eg another airstrip, outside the Trg. Area. VFR only licence.

Exams: Pre-solo, pre-trg. area solo, Basic Aeronautical Knowledge (BAK. Req'd prior to doing the GFPT).

Private Pilot Licence: Min age 17(18? ditto memory) Issued by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA. Equiv. of UK CAA/USA FAA). Min. 40hrs (30 dual, 10solo of which 5 must be x-country) prior to the flight test. It's a VFR only licence unless you get an Instrument rating.

Exams: PPL exam. Single exam, multi choice, done on demand via computer.

Commercial Pilot Licence: Min age 18. CASA issued. Two routes: 'Commercial Trained Person' or alternatively a mix of whatever eventually gets you to standard. It's a VFR only licence unless you get an Instrument rating.

Commercially trained: Min 150hr in an approved training course prior to the flight test. Will include min 70hrs command, 10 I.F.

Otherwise trained: Min 200hrs experience gathered however you like prior to the flight test. Will have to do an assessment flight & then the Chief Flying Instructor will design a course for you to redress any shortfall in experience, hours, skill etc. eg the min 10 hrs IF, 100 comd.

Exam: CPL exam. Multi choice, on demand, on computer.

Airline Transport Pilot Licence: Min age 21. CASA issued. 1500 hrs minimum, of which 250 command, 100 night, 75(?) I.F. Must have an IR for it to be issued. Issued on application once min. experience is met.

Exam: Don't know anymore! System has changed too much since I did mine...

Ratings

Night VFR rating: Allows flight at night under VFR/VMC. Min 10hrs training before the flight test. If tested in a multi then valid for both single & multi. If tested in a single then only valid for singles + centerline thrust multis eg C337 (you'd also need a C337 endorsement).

No exam.

Instrument Rating: Allows flight using IFR & IMC. Can be added to PPL, CPL & ATPL. CASA issued. 40 hrs training of which max. 20 can be done using an approved synthetic trainer (ie equiv. to FNPT in JAR terminology). If tested in a multi then valid for both single & multi. If tested in a single then only valid for singles + centerline thrust multis eg C337 (you'd need the C337 endorsement too).

Exam: Single exam, on demand, computer based.

Agricultural Rating: Two levels, Ag2 & Ag 1. I think it's about 50hrs training for to get the Ag.2 then some experience add-on to get an Ag.1. Allows crop spraying, spreading etc.

Night Ag. Rating: Added to an Ag. rating (Ag.1?) to allow night ag. ops.

Intructor ratings (fixed wing): Three levels - Grades 3, 2 & 1. Must have CPL or ATPL to get one. CASA issued. Can pretty much teach on whatever you're allowed to fly if it's <5700kg.

Gr.3: Min. 50hr flight training (30 dual, 20 mutual) + LOTS & LOTS of briefing practice... Also includes an 'instructional principles & methods' course (min 12 class classroom content on learning theory etc etc). Must have a Ngt. VFR rating OR an IR that allows Ngt. VFR ops (not the same thing).

Once issued can all sequence for PPL, Ngt VFR & CPL including various endorsements. Can't send students for first solo in any sequence. Must operate under the direct supervision of a Gr.1 instructor for the 1st 100 hrs. After 100 hrs the direct supervision limit can be lifted and can also be allowed to send student for further solo in a sequence ie subsequent to any first solo in that sequence. Must do an IR instructing test to get approved to teach IR.

Gr.2: Min 250 hrs instructing (200 ab-initio, 50 x-country) then a flight test. Can send students for 1st solo & after 400 hrs tot. instructional hrs can be approved to do flight reviews. Must do an IR instructing test to get approved to teach IR.

Gr.1: Min 750 hrs instructing before doing the flight test, of which 500 must be teaching PPL & CPL stuff. The remainder can be anything eg aeros etc. Can be a CFI, supervise more junior instructors. & teach IR (if IR rated).

There's a CASA theory exam required for Gr.1.

Multi training approval: Can be added to any instructor rating after doing a flight test. Min 50hr comd m/e time required 1st.

Can also add aero &/or formation teaching approval.


Endorsements

Group endorsements include features such as

*single engine piston <5700kg: This is what just about every single pilot has since at least one of their tests is likely to have been in an a/c in this class.

*retractable u/c
*tailwheel
*constant speed/VP prop.
*pressurisation
*floating hull
*float plane

Usually issued by the CFI after appropriate training. Apply across all types eg have a single eng. piston & add retractable to expand the coverage of the types you can fly. That would rope in all the retractable variants of the singles <5700kg. If you happened to be endorsed on a C336 then it would also rope in the C337 retractable variant.

*multi engine types: Must be endorsed on each multi type <5700 kg although some types are grouped together eg C401/402/404/411. Add a pressurisation endorsement & that would automatically add the C414 & C421 to that example.

*aerobatics endorsement
*formation endorsement

Type ratings: Generally applies to all a/c above 5700kg, turbine or specific marques eg Spitfire.

[FlyingForFun]

Flying surfer, that is my understanding - but since I don't have an "old" CAA license, it's not something I've really looked into, so I could well be wrong. If I am wrong, sorry.

FFF
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[Send Clowns]

Flying Surfer

You may be out of time. I believe that the CAA ATPL had to be unfrozen by last June or the rules change. Not certain, but I remember people scrabbling around for night hours at the time. Check with the CAA.