Is it really worth joining a UAS?

[goat1500]

I have seen some of the previous threads and they have been full of abuse for joining a UAS.
Just wanted to know if it is actually benificial towards cadet schemes.

Constructive advice would be helpful.
Cheers. :cool:

[ 30 October 2001: Message edited by: goat1 ]

[Al Titude]

Goat 1

A UAS is not a method of helping you get on to a cadet scheme. It is the primary way that RAF students complete their EFT and get streamed towards their future role in the forces. The flying training provided is of the highest quality, and indeed would be beneficial for somebody who was interested in a career in the RAF but couldn't get in, and then decided to pursue a career in the airlines.
The selection process is reasonably watertight, and only people with a genuine interest in a career with the RAF are accepted. It is not a means of hour building/looking good for your BA application.
If you managed to get in and then displayed this attitude, I'm pretty sure that you would be outside the student union looking for another CV improver within a couple of weeks!!

No offence, but I hope this clears up your views as to the true nature of UASs!

[EGDR]

Interested in flying then join a UAS, you do not have to join the RAF.

[Tonkenna]

Indeed Goat it is worthwhile joining a UAS, but if you are interested this year I am afraid it is now too late as most of our prospective studets are well onto part 3 of the selection, and indeed some of those selected for my UAS start tomorrow.

The UAS is not easy to get into and we try hard to select high quality people. Don't see it as an eay way to get a free PPL, as people do get chopped (as a few are finding out). You do not have to want to join the RAF at the end, though if you whish to get all the trg you have to make some commitment later. Considering that upto 65-70% of RAF pilots are selected from UASs it is a very good way to get in.

Its also bl00dy good fun :D

Tonks :)

[scroggs]

As an ex-CFI of a UAS (Yorkshire), I can confirm that the selection process lays heavy emphasis on candidates' interest in the Services. Those who feel that it's a short cut to a commercial licence are barking up the wrong tree.
Having said that, there is no commitment to join the RAF (or other services), just a requirement to want to experience the lifestyle and find out as much as possible about military life while at Uni. And, of course, fly. Many UAS cadets never attempt to join the Services, and in my time I sent many very good people to BA as the RAF wasn't recruiting a great deal.
UAS is a great introduction to the RAF, and offers great flying and a great social life. It's well worth it.

[Muppetfly!]

Can't add too much on what has already been said except to say I had an awesome three years on mine. Some squadrons take the whole dedication to joining the service more seriously than others, but usually the enjoyment takes over and everyone wants to join anyway.

That said, it depends on the squadron and the commitment that you put in. Whether you join or not, where else can you get away from lectures for the day and go do some solo aerobatics..?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Best flying I ever did. Most fun I ever had. Long live the UAS system.

WWW

[AJ]

The best way to find out is just to join up, do some flying, and if you like it-well there is your answer.

Of course you have to show some commitment to the services (during the interview), but that's not exactly difficult.

Be warned that if you are not into the "beer & curry" scene (I am not a great fan), then you might not enjoy the non-flying bit very much.

Other than that, it's good fun.

I know some people above said "don't bother if you just want to join BA"; my advice is if you are thinking of flying for BA/etc. it would be a very good thing to at least give the UAS thing a go.

Regards

[flying Dr]

Depend what you want

If you are seriously thinking of joining the sevices, its fantastic. Get to experience that wayof life and decide if its for you. If its not, the UAS are more than happy as its far cheaper to get rid of you after a year at uni than after going through IOT then EFT, ( and far easier on you too).

If you do like it, you learn a hell of a lot about what they expect of you at OASC, and you get a lot of backup from the instructors-its been quoted elsewhere but a lot of RAF pilots were in the UAS.

Regards cadet schemes, out of my group of 8 BA cadets, 4 were in UAS and in my UAS, with an average intake of 18 a year, ended up with 2 a year going to BA.( i also know of 2 who ended up with aerlingus) It certainly lets you fly, and i know ot 2 people out of 40 who decided flying as a career wasnt for them.
I can only speak of my experience of the BA scheme and i dont know what BAs view on UASs are, but they are far more interested in the type of person you are and your life experiences than how many hours flying you have. They do, as they state in their literature, want to see a commitment to aviation, and joining a UAS may do that.

I think id be right in saying however that an the UAS interview, if you dont demonstrate an interest in the services and if you were silly enough to say that you were only there for the flying/ and or had no interest in the services, you would have zero chance of getting. in
The UAS exists to allow the RAF to look at and encourage potetntial future pilots. If theyre not for you and youre not for them, then so be it. Youve both won and noones lost, but there primary aim is not to help you get onto a civvie cadet scheme. ( they will however help you if you decide the RAFs not for you, as that helps them too!)

[Speedbird777]

I'm in my 4th year at Uni right now and spent my 2nd year in the UAS as all I ever want to do is fly. They say that your University work comes first but I found that this only applies if you have done everything they require you to, and so if you are doing a demanding course (I'm doing medicine but joined as pilot) it can be quite difficult. Also, you are only allowed one year before you have to submit your application for a full cadetship at which point you have to make a commitment to the RAF. I decided to leave as I decided the RAF wasn't for me and that commercial flying was more my cup of tea. I had a great time and did some excellent flying.

Getting in wasn't that hard, just show an interest and be aware of current affairs, particularly military. They don't expect you to know the crosswind landing limits of a tornado so don't panic if they ask you any technical question, just say you don't know. Unfortunately you have missed the cut off for application this year. If you like flying, go for it. You can always leave if it gets too much. Good luck!!!

[Tonkenna]

Flying Dr,

Some of the best candidates at interview know v little about the RAF and have just seen us at the freshers fair. We are, rather like BA, interested in the quality of the individual. If you have done something with your life so far we will be interested. If you try and bull**** about military knowledge and commitment in the interview we will see it. Ofcourse, if you get in we will try and sell the RAF, but if it is not for you, then so be it. The flying is excellent, and it is not all "beer and curry" as someone mentioned.

Speedbird,

I don't agree with your comment "They say that your University work comes first but I found that this only applies if you have done everything they require you to". We are very aware of the work that degree courses take up and will not push someone to fly rather than do course work, however, those that are doing medicine often struggle to do even the bare minimum, and we have to be realistic about who we fly. If after a year you have only done 3-4 hrs (as some do!) we are obviously going to offer that place to some one who can offer more time, sorry.

Tonks

[superfurryanimal]

Goat 1

I wouldn't recommend a UAS as a route to a place on a commercial sponsorship programe. Cadets (now a rare commodity) are resented enough as it is by those who choose to (or who have no choice but to) pay their own way through a commercial licence without finding out that you also took a place on a UAS that should have gone to someone with a genuine interest in joining the RAF.
Unless you have a strong (and long-held) desire to fly with the RAF, then give the UAS a wide berth and limit the amount of abuse you may suffer if in the future airlines decide to resurrect sponsorship programmes.
If, on the other hand, you are mad-keen to join, then go for it. I spent 2 very happy years with NUAS and don't regret a minute. The flying is far more fun than the hours you would receive for a commercial licence, and the social scene is usually excellent. As has been said before, if you don't join up for whatever reason, so be it. I myself chose not to join for personal reasons, and only 10 years later am I now pursuing a career in commercial aviation, but the UAS system has never held that against me (yet!!!).
If the RAF is your desire, give it a go - what have you got to lose? You will soon get to know if you are up to scratch and whether the lifestyle suits you (many people are surprised at how different it is to their childhood perceptions). Personally I would recommend it as opportunities in the airlines are going to be severely limited for some time, and even when it improves, competition for places wil be cut-throat. The airlines are always on the lookout for RAF recruits anyway, and so once you have had a fulfilling and varied career flying miltary aircraft, you can always join the airlines later.
Don't abuse the UAS system as an easy route to free hours - you will only make enemies on both sides of the fence, and the flight deck is too small to hide in for long!!!

Best of luck whatever your decision. ;)

[NewBloke]

Purely out of curiosity, how long has it been since UAS's require you to undertake a medical and aptitude testing at Cranwell !? I was in a UAS in '94 and I never had to partake any form of aptitude testing, and the medical was a pretty straight forward affair at RAF Odiham. Having asked my question, I would say that you should go for the UAS. You have nothing to lose, and I really enjoyed my time there. However, as already mentioned, think seriously about how much time and dedication you can give to the squadron given your university schedule. I had a very busy course, and as such found it very difficult to mix UAS and lectures/study etc.. But obviously it can be done. Good luck whatever you choose,

NB.

[fritz_2001]

I was in the UAS from 1995 and had to have the medical at Cranwell but the aptitudes (if my memory serves me correctly) were trialed on us. They were done at the squadron on a PC with the same sort of joystick/pedels/coloured keypad as at Cranwell. I seem to remember the next years intake had to do the same thing.

MW

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: major wannabee ]

[Paddington*]

If you have the faintest interest in military flying then why not give the UAS a go next year?

UASs vary in their competitiveness but if you can get in then good luck to you. You never know, you may even decide that you'd prefer the RAF to an airline. There are more sporting opportunities in the RAF and greater camaraderie on the ground.

I had 3 years on a Scottish UAS - excellent flying instruction, a good insight into the RAF & a brilliant social life. Got very good memories of my time there and wouldn't have missed it for the world. Tempted to join up but am now commercial.

[BEagle]

A few years ago, I would have recommended anyone to join the UAS. I had a great time on a UAS, both as a student on the Chipmunk and as a QFI on the Bulldog.

But there has now been an unpleasant change. The introduction of 'streaming assessment' on students working hard for a degree is utterly immoral. If you go to University and want a decent degree, you have to work hard enough. Many UASs are miles and miles from the university, so the time needed away from your studies to attend UAS flying training often enough to acquire sufficient flying currency to progress in a manner which would lead to FJ streaming WILL be detrimental to your University work.

Until the 'streaming assessment' is $hit-canned, the advice has to be DO NOT JOIN A UAS IF YOU WANT TO BE A RAF FJ PILOT - instead show some interest in your last year and join as a DE pilot...

Sorry - but that's what the advice has got to be ever since the bean-counters ruined the UAS world!!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I enjoyed my time on a UAS, and have no regrets - despite being chopped quite early on the course. My problem, which is shared by many and not understood my the UAS system very well was that it's not possible to go through the UAS's intensive training regime AND do a tough degree such as Engineering or Medicine. OK, there are rare individuals who can do both - such as the immortal D*** S******** who did the same degree and UAS a few year before me and went on in short time to take multiple prizes at ETPS, but they are the exception. (DS is now flying for Virgin, but only after a very successful RAF test-flying career).

But frankly, this doesn't matter. If you are interested, go for it. If you are interested in a flying career, a military career, or just (as in my case) a career associated with the RAF (I ended up at A²E²) it is very worth while. But expect it to be hard, and don't be a pratt and go in telling people it's your route to a BA Cadetship, even if it is. No CO is going to keep you on if you're saying that. Try your hardest, but fit the mould.

G

[Gone Around]

I joined my local (70 miles away) UAS in 1995. After 2 years my degree was going down the pan so I quit. Those that stayed got 3rds, although 1 got a 2(ii). I got a 2(i) and I still got accepted into the RAF as a pilot, Graduate Direct Enrty. Streaming at UAS is a nonsense when you only fly 1 or 2 hours a week. Ask any pilot, continuity in flying can make all the difference.

Forget UAS and have a blast at Uni. If you're made of the right stuff you'll get in when you graduate and you'll have a much better chance of going Fast-Jet.

[Tonkenna]

Hi BEagle,

I agree that streaming at the end of a UAS course may not be the best system in the world, but plenty of students are getting Fast Jet. I have not seen any statistics that show you have less chance at getting FJ rather than ME or Rotary, if you have perhaps you could let me know. I think it is a bit harsh to advise not joining a UAS. I think the best advice is to give it a go. Don't forget that you cannot join in the last year, even if you are very keen. You have to have 5 terms left to do. Anyhow, its pretty irrelevant now as recruiting is finished for another year. Try again in Sept next year.

I think that the UAS is a great scheme and that it is better for the students if they can see what the RAF is like and whether it is for them and visa versa. Better that than do IOT and JEFTS and then find out, wasted time and a wasted slot.

Tonks

[Bad company]

I have to agree with Tonks, the % of ex-UAS going fast jet is still well over 60%. The streaming does take into account the lack of continuity, and a decent report, writen to take account of the problems UAS studes suffer still carries a lot of weight.

As for bosses presurising studes to fly, it doesn't happen at all units! If you are studying a heavy subject that takes all your term time, then as long as you make an effort to attend camp during the breaks, most UAS's will be sympathetic. However, we do expect a degree of commitment to us, and if you feel that you can't juggle the flying and a degree, then tell your QFI. A UAS report, even if you were unable to complete the EFT syllabus, still makes a difference at OASC.

[Cuban_8]

All,

For those genuinely interested in flying, but are keeping an open mind with regards to the civil/military thing, I cannot recommend the UAS system enough. There is no doubt that balancing degree commitments with flying in the UAS is challenging, but in my opinion you will not experience a higher standard of or more enjoyable flying outside the RAF itself.

I spent 2 years in the UAS whilst completing an Aerospace Engineering degree. The balance was always difficult, and during term time, the amount of flying I managed to get in was minimal. However, I always made the effort to fly as much as possible during summer camps etc and was always on top of the game as far as progress goes, so it can be done! However, in my final year, the pressure was on to apply to OASC and all I needed to do at the time was concentrate on working – so I decided to leave.

As it happens, I never had anymore to do with the RAF and am now in the commercial side of things. However, the UAS certainly changed my opinion of the RAF and gave my 2 brilliant years that I wouldn’t have missed!!

My advice – go for it! What have you got to loose??

Regards,

Cuban_8

[Lucifer]

Your chance of a clean sheet at OASC?

Continuity matters, and if you have the time in the first 2 years (ie not an eng/chemist) you can do well, but finalists should give it a rest just as long as they can do themselves justice in finals.