Career in ATC (oh yes, another one)

[LiamMc]

Hello folks.

I'm 16 years old at the moment, finishing my 5th yr of High School in Glasgow, with an ambition of a career in ATC. I've had a browse around the NATS site and found some info eg. entry requirements. I have plans to start my PPL soon at Glasgow and I'm assuming that will come in handy if I have it completed at time of applying. I have a few questions:

1) Do you usually get to choose at which airport you control, or is it pretty much up to them?

2) Is the training salary sufficient? ie. do you have a bit to spare :)

3) Does your age affect who they take on eg. If I were to apply at 18 years old, would I have the same chance as someone who eg. is 30 with a working background.

4) Radar vs. Area; do you get to choose or do they choose on the basis of ability?

5) Qualifications vs. Motivation/Interest; Of how much value are qualifications in comparison with an interest in the job? eg. if someone had 6 Highers/A-levels would they be preffered someone with the minimum requirements but with a real passion for the industry?

6) NATS vs. Eurocontrol; what are the differences??

I know there is quite a lot there but I'm really interested and any replies are greatly appreciated :)

Thanks a lot,
Liam

[Andrew M]

Hmmm, I think I know you from somewhere - VATSIM I think

I've contacted NATS for some info, and from what I have received:

First of all, PPL is not required for NATS training. Everyone gets some "Air experience" of 15 hours - that's all. Not really relevant.

1) NATS places you either at a centre or Aerodrome control.

2) Plenty to spare ! From the official salary information:

On appointment for training £18,690 then on completion of Radar Rating - £19,592

After passing and you are positioned for Training & Development your salary is £27,952 rising to £31,734

On appointment as an ATCO (varies with unit) £35,828/£38,061

Rising to over £49,948

With prospects for £65,111

3) I think they would prefer younger people. Suppose it doesn't really matter. As long as you pass their aptitude tests.

4) See answer to 1) Not 100% sure.

5) As long as you have 3 Highers or above. Selection then depends on Aptitude test.

6) Couldn't tell you - perhaps someone more experienced could tell you.

Have you requested an information booklet from NATS - I did and found it quite helpful. Also got an interactive CD-ROM that has some more info.

Good luck,
Andrew M

[WX Man]

Answer to (6):

Differences...

Money:
Take NATS salary for fully qualified ATCer. Subtract tax. Multiply by an unknown figure: you're looking at about £50K a year for an Scottish bloke working in Maastricht with a wife and one child. Slightly less if you're single/no children.

Work:
You work in the Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre. They don't streamline you off to any other centres/disciplines: you only train for an Area Radar rating, and that's all you use. You also get to use probably the most sophisticated ATC system in the world, and one of the very few that is entirely stripless.

Living:
Once you've been there a while, you might want to learn Dutch. It helps to understand what all those bills are for that keep dropping through your letterbox! Cost of living is slightly cheaper than the UK, but this obviously varies. Belgium is generally cheaper than the Netherlands.

[Gonzo]

Liam and Andrew M, think I know you both!!!!!! :D

re: NATS

1) As I've answered in another thread, it's up to them. Of, say 25-30 on the course, depending on where the company most needs ATCOS, they'll say "Right, 5 for Approach (go to either an aerodrome, or Terminal Control at West Drayton, moving to Swanwick 2007ish), the rest go to Area. It all depends on the numbers required at each unit. Some courses have been all area, some, like mine, were 2/3 area to 1/3 approach. Up until now, everyone, regardless of final destination, did the tower rating, which was always something to fall back on if Area didn't work out, but in the future you'll be streamed off into Approach or Area after a 'foundation' course of theory, and those chosen for Area will go straight into that discipline.

If you get Approach, they'll say "we need 2 at Heathrow, 1 at Edinburgh, 1 at Birmingham and 1 at Glasgow." You state your preference, but in the end they send you where they want you to go.

3) Age. I was taken on straight from school. I guess it shows them that you're keen, and that you are still in the 'learning' frame of mind.

4) Well, obviously, the best controllers work do Approach and work at airfields.
:ok:


Gonzo.

[Andrew M]

3) Age. I was taken on straight from school. I guess it shows them that you're keen, and that you are still in the 'learning' frame of mind.

Remember that there is a minimum age of 18 for NATS training.

PS: You don't know me !!! :D

[Gonzo]

Well, ok, I finished school in June, applied to NATS, and started at Bournemouth the next April.

I could have sworn I've seen a Andrew M on a newsgroup or two. Maybe 'know of' would be better....:D

Gonzo.

[Andrew M]

depends on what newsgroup that is ?

would it be VATSIM ?

[Andy_R]

Out of interest what would be the upper age limit for commencing training?

[Gonzo]

Andrew M, correct!

Cloud69, don't quote me, but I think it's 30, unless you have 'aviation experience'. Not sure if the cut-off is when you apply, or when you start the college.

Try www.nats.co.uk

Gonzo.

[Impi]

As someone said also, you'll only be doing Area, and only upper at that, at Eurocontrol.

Sure, you'll earn more money, work with the "best" system and live abroad bla bla, but you'll be bored at work!

Bottom line, all we do here is say hello and goodbye...go to NATS.

[45 before POL]

Cloud 69 is right by stating age limit 30 but previous miltary/civil atc experience will be considered above that. It has been known for people to commence at the college 40+.
Whether you are 18 or 30 with experience. Recruitment will treat both the same, its down to the aptitude tests and how you sell yourself, and whether you are capable of studying enough to pass.

If you are keen and motivated you are halfway there.
Bear in mind though...NATS recruitment this year has virtuallycome to a standstill and the whole process at present fram the 1st application form to starting at Bournemouth is about 2 years, as courses are full to Oct2004 and filling Jan2005!

With regards the salary..noone quibbles as you also recieve accomodation allowance totalling £100 per week(tax free) leaving you to spend the rest on the important things in life!

All the Best...A great career when you get there

[Harris]

@Impi

Why do you always talk so negatively about Eurocontrol, what's so wrong about it?

[garash]

Impi, i'm guessing you work in the hannover or deco sectors where it is a case of hello goodbye traffic, in fact how you can call yourselves air traffic controllers is beyond me. Try an hour in the olno/lux then tell me you're bored.

[WX Man]

Just for the record, I've been accused of being Impi (I think everyone at MUAC who PPRuNes knows who WX Man is).

Can I please deny that I am also posing as Impi... please?

This chap is clearly a well balanced individual- i.e. a chip on both shoulders!

Dammit, I'd love to know who you really are.

[Impi]

"...Impi, i'm guessing you work in the hannover or deco sectors where it is a case of hello goodbye traffic, in fact how you can call yourselves air traffic controllers is beyond me. Try an hour in the olno/lux then tell me you're bored..."

Whatever you need to believe to make yourself feel better about calling yourself an ATC...fact is, I think I know who you are and we worked together not too long ago...

There are too many "eurocontrollers" that think like you...you're soft and you wouldn't make it anywhere else.

I've said it before...The East Sector ghost is a joke...

[Voroff]

I'm glad I never applied to eurocontrol if this impi guy is their standard of controller

what the saying something that comes before a fall?

[The Euronator]

Voroff,

I wouldn't tar all of Eurocontrollers with the same brush, Impi is an exception to the rule. I doubt whether he is a Controller anyway, I believe he is just a failed abinitio with an inferiority complex and now a huge chip on his shoulder.

Impi,

If it's too easy for you mate, F@#K Off and find somewhere else to work, you won't be missed.

[fourthreethree]

...fact is, I think I know who you are and we worked together not too long ago...

Note past tense. If the work here was so easy to you, why were you unable to make the grade? You must have made a real effort to fail in such a simple job.

However, I can agree with one thing he says, people like garage need a good slap. The fact is that no matter where you work, which centre, which sector, the job of ATC carries with it the same level of skill, responsibility etc. It pays to respect the work of your colleagues and not to get your head stuck too far up your own ar$e.

Harris, Voroff

We are not all as imbalanced as that, work here is enjoyable and the conditions are good. Some people will never be happy, but you get folk like that the world over.

LiamMc

I guess all your questions have been answered, I wish you all the best with your applications and future career. Most of us have no regrets with our vocational choice.:ok:

[Striker]

What, you climb and descend traffic! :oh: Now there's something which is new to ATC. I don't know how you do it. Do you get special training and allowances for that?

Only somebody from the Brussels sectors would believe their own hype.

[mancman]

Play nicely children!
Yes here in the Bruss sectors there are a few idiots who think they're gods and the rest of maas is far below us but thats really not the majority. Every sector has different problems to put up with.
Impi, you know nothing, just one of life's failures.

[Andrew M]

:hmm: After Liam reading this petty squabble, I bet he has different career plans now. Be assured, there isn't always this childish rivalry (I hope).

ATC is only a job - all ATCO's are as important as each other - all a cog in the system, and without one, the rest would be in pieces - there isn't any need to make things personal ;) .

And the "importance" thing - that ranges from Eurocontrol, NATS, hell - even advisory services at small GA airfields - all are essential parts of the ATC system. Every one has the same importance as everybody else so don't feel inferior just because you didn't make the grade for such and such a position.

As I said - it's only a job:)

[Impi]

Why is it that all of you assume I'm a failed Ab-initio or that I didn't even make it that far? No "controller" worth his "euro" at Maastricht would dare criticise what we (don't) do...!

I've experienced much more complex ATC, and hey, not all enviroments are as exciting as say a busy APP sector, it's just that most of you guys believe that you're God's gift to Aviation and that's something I've never experienced before...cool it with the ego's is what I say.:ok:

[Voroff]

Yeap point taken sorry for generalising all eurocontrol people because of impi who may or may not be employed at maastricht.