Baught a GPS for your training/flying?

[Pilot16]

Hi, just wondering how many people buy a GPS after passing the PPL...

Im just finishing off the PPL and will be going commercial. I might buy one for the hour building. Is it really necessary to have one?
The Garmin GPS Pilot III looks good, the price and the features.

darn! Just realise they took off the poll feature, I guess you're all gonna have to reply :p

Regards.
P16

[redsnail]

Nope, never bought one. When I learnt to fly they hadn't been invented. I can remember when they were A$12,000. No joke. Then the Gulf War I made them cheaper.
I have used them at work. I still fly without one occassionally. It's no biggy, that's what the navaids are for.
If I were you, I'd concentrate on getting your nav techniques squared away before getting a GPS.

[Tinstaafl]

Not necessary and not recommended.

Any twit can press the 'go to' button on a GPS but recognising when 'go to' isn't 'going to' the desired place takes your navigation skill & judgement learned through experience.

The purpose of min. experience requirements - thus forcing you to hour build - is to consolidate & develop your skills, one of which is navigation.

Once your skills have developed then GPS devices can be great. They're not a navigation cure-all though.

[iainpoll]

Hi P16

I agree with the others, dont bother. In fact spend the money on a few more hours instead.

After you pass the skills test, use your hour building to get 'good' at DR nav. The whole idea is that you start building up your skills to a commercial level. Don't waste your time following a GPS around, else you will be in for a big shock when you start the CPL.

Happy landings:ok:

[Flying Boat]

I have got one and don't regret buying it, however it is only a peace of mind back up to complement the navigation techniques taught during your PPL.

I agree with T & R you must develop your normal navigation techniques, both VFR & Radio Nav before regularly using a GPS.
Think of a GPS as a nav back-up system. Similar to carrying a transceiver in case of radio failure.

I have just 4 subjects to go in the ATPL writtens & in both Gen Nav & especially Radio Nav the GPS (GNSS) is becoming a larger part of the course. The rumours are NDBs will go within 5 years & some VORs perhaps within 10.

If your hour building will involve touring, for example around Europe, it may be a wise investment.
Once I was flying over the English Channel from Ostende towards Caen & told by Lille to report abeam Abbeville. No problem if you can see the town but I was up to 40NM away @ 4,000ft, Europe in summer can be hazy. I could have triangulated the VORs & used the coastal visual references and compared them to my map but the modern cockpit is there to relieve unnecessary work, I waited for the wing of my little aeroplane cursor to point to Abbeville on the map, then reported.
When asked for a report at a predetermined distance & no DME is available a GPS receiver will tell you accurately how far to go & when you are there (assuming it is working properly), leaving out the worry of accuracy as a low hours pilot can have in a busy controlled airspace. Once you have a licence you are a pilot in the eyes of the ATC, whether 50 hours or 5000 hours (unless you comment on your low hours on the flight plan).

None of this detracts from the fact that you should do very precise flight planning with your maps, plogs, wizzwheel, nav aid info (Radio & Nav Aid frequencies) and plates (VFR or IFR) for both destination & en route diversions, the GPS is not as good as a Jeppessen plate for all the aerodrome detail.

If I remember correctly the GPS is still not a primary navigation aid for light aircraft so if you got into trouble you must still show your calculated flight plan using all the above mentioned items to an official.

My personal opinion is if you are not going to fly more than 150 miles away from home base, don't bother.

You must consider several facts before buying the GPS;

1, Do I have the cash & the budget for it?
2, Will I be flying very long distances, eg as I have done, Jersey to Rome Urbe in a PA28?
3, If I buy one, what do I like the look of?
4, Is it easy to read in turbulent conditions?
5, Is it easy to use?
6, Is it easy to get data upgrades? How much are the upgrades?
7, What is the power supply? How long will batteries last?

If you decide to buy a GPS it is very much your own decision.
I have used only Garmins so cannot comment on Magellan or Skyforce. I have used the GPS195 (I own one), GPS Pilot, GPS 295 & the built in GPS 430.

I personally would go for the more simple black & white models firstly, I think the colour is a gimick for us mere mortals. That leaves the 195, Pilot & the new 196.
If buying a new one today I would consider the 196, good memory and a nice big screen. The Pilot for me is too small for a quick glance to reinforce your positional beliefs. If your budget is smaller I would consider the 195, it still has more processing power than the Lunar Module, from the Apollo missions, fairly cheap now and a nice big screen

As I said these are my opinions & it is up to you.

Good luck in your decision making.

Enjoy your flying.

FB :D


PS: Heard a rumour, not sure if urban legend or not, of a PPL a few years ago, that declared a MAYDAY because his batteries on his GPS ran out. The CAA were not very happy & 'did' him.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Well, I'd have to agree that it's important to build up your 'taditional' skills first.

I'd say a few things about GPS though as I use the 295 almost all the time - 'almost' because I occasionally switch it off to practice using VORs and the Mk I eyeball.

(1) GPS can be a very dangerous tool as it's very easy to get distracted and keep your head in the cockpit.

(2) If you get one, learn all the features. The 295 isn't too bad but the 430 my brother has is really quite complex and if you're not completely adept with the unit ...well see (1) above

(3) Experiment with the settings. You might get more out of the unit by using other than the default fields

(4) Don't worry about the moving map display. All I use mine for is monitoring how close I am to Class B

Having said that, the quote "Any twit can press the 'go to' button" is only really half the story. If all you use a GPS for is GOTO, then you're missing the majority of the capabilities. You can plan routes, measure ETAs, cross track distances, heading vs track etc etc. You can use it as a real tool that requires scanning, and will provide you with the full picture, just like the rest of your instruments.

[Pilot16]

Thanks to everybody who replied
I couldnt ask for any better info.

Flying Boat,
If I buy something, I prefer to buy a good decent one, since im buying it only once, if i do buy one, would you recommend me to spend a little more to buy the 196 over 195 or 195 over pilot III?

Regards.

[FougaMagister]

Hi - if you want a GPS before going for JAA CPL, then FORGET IT! You won't be allowed to use it during your CPL training (or skill test for that matter), it's all dead-reckoning and position-fixing using navaids. You may want to develop these all-important skills during hour building, instead of just looking down the screen.

Don't misunderstand me, the GPS is one of the most amazing pieces of kit I've ever seen. On the other hand, I was once coming along with three mates on one of their hr-building flights in SA a while ago, and they navigated only by GPS, following the neat little line on the screen. OK, they logged the hours, but what they got out of that nav, practice-wise was... zilch!

Keep your money for some extra flight training - it always ends up costing more than you expected. The GPS can wait.

Cheers.

[Flying Boat]

P16

In answer to your question, if money is not a problem, I would say the 196.

It wins hands down on memory, use & versatility. Apparently you can use it in your car with the optional/additional Road software.

Try to get a copy of 'Today's Pilot' March 2003, a very good write up with photos of display & a test report.

Go to the transair site to see General info.
www.transair.co.uk

At present it is being sold for £729.95 inc VAT from Transair over the net, but shop around you may save up to £50. Having said that the extras with it may explain the price.

Enjoy your new gadget, but keep looking out the window.

FB:ok:

[Pilot16]

Well It seems like most replies are on the no side.

[Tinstaafl]

Onan, '...any twit can press 'go to'..." etc is the full story.

If it clarifies things a bit, substitute 'sit with the instruction manual & learn to push the relevent buttons'.

The point is that you still require fundamental navigational skills developed through practice & experience to be able to determine when the magic box isn't doing what you expected, and as a back up for when it fails.

T.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Tinstaafl

I pretty much agree with what you say, though I think I have met some twits for whom even pressing the D-> button would appear to be an overly complex task.

However, I wouldn't dismiss GPS quite so outrightly. Certainly, if all that's being done is entering a D-> course and following the pink line, it's only a mater of time before the wrong waypoint gets punched in.

Alternatively, if used creatively, they can yield just as much information as the regular instruments and will provide for more accurate navigation too. For instance, in the run that I do, it's a while before I can tune in the VOR, but I can use it as a waypoint immediately with GPS. When I do get the VOR, I need to stray a fair old bit off course before the needle starts to register it, with GPS, I know exactly how far off course I am at any moment. I can use Bearing vs Track to stay on course which would be more trial and error on the VOR and I can plan ahead by using distance and time to waypoint to plan the power stepdowns to cool the turbos. I can even use the NRST feature to see how close I am to our local prohibited airspace.

Now I could look out of the window for some of this as well, and I do. I also use the stars (ok, only if I'm heading north). I could also use DME and RNAV, but not everything is so equipped.

Anyway, it's a moot point as it'll all probably be GPS in another ten years and they'll only cost fifty quid (and not just from a bloke down the pub either).

[Tinstaafl]

Who's dismissing the GPS? I often use one too.

What I'm saying is that without a fundamental skill at navigating, then a 'GPS only' ability is inadequate. That fundamental skill is gained through practice & experience.

If it were sufficient then the same argument could be used for an 'autopilot must be on/autoland mode only' pilot licence.

[Onan the Clumsy]

I can't argue with that.

[Mister Geezer]

A GPS unit can be a superb aid to the pilot and if it is in the right hands then it is a great piece of kit. Don't blast off with a GPS if you have not done some planning. Draw all the lines on your chart and fill in your plog as a back up. Having a RNAV unit is good since you can constantly cross check the GPS data. Basic Nav Aid fixing will do the same job. No matter how many replacement batteries you bring with you for your GPS... things can still go wrong!

[redsnail]

Well folks, I've just done 2 days (well, a night and day's) worth of flying in IFR conditions without a GPS. Used the old fashioned navaids called the VOR, DME and *shock horror* ADF.
You can quite happily survive without a GPS. Save your money and get confident in using the tools you have already.

[Pilot16]

Ive decided not to buy one.
Thanks to everybody who replied :)
P16

[Onan the Clumsy]

I've just done 2 days (well, a night and day's) worth of flying in IFR conditions without a GPS

Bet you could have wrapped it up in a day if you'd had the GPS.



...just kidding :8