Longhaul regional ops by flag carriers

[mcdonnellluke]

Hello
On the subject of BA concentrating its Long Haul ops on LHR and LGW and ferrying pax in from regional airports on the shuttle, what is the situation like in other European countries with flag carriers and regional ops. I know that it is a similar situation as France as AF concentrates its ops on CDG and ferries pax in from the regions, I belive they operate very little regional long haul flights, is that correct? Also I think it is the same with IB concentrating ops and MAD-I think they dont operate many long-haul flights from BCN and none from PMI -but have a frequent service to MAD? I think LH and possibly AZ are the only European flag carries that operate significant longhaul ops from more than one city-is that correct i.e. LH operates from FRA and MUC, AZ from Milan and FCO?
Luke

[Tiger]

Think you may find BA is concentrating most of its long haul flights ex LHR, and only a hand full of US and Caribbean routes now operate from LGW with as many 777.

If it was possible most of those US routes would be up at LHR as well.

The reason for the lack of long haul destinations from regional airports is the cost and aircraft available which would be considered acceptable to Joe public. Most long haul aircraft are widebody with 250+ seats such as Airbus 330, 767, 777 the smallest around and as for a year round service differcult to fill. Where the 757 was acceptable on long haul the public expect a bit more now days. Long gone are the 235 paxs on a 757 with tec stop Bangor on route to Fl and Caribbean.

Your example of IB and long haul from PMI- PMI is the busiest holiday airport in Europe, but with most traffic coming from British German and Scandavian charter operaters.

[sisyphus1965]

Just the one long-haul op for BA outside London, MAN-JFK.
In the past there have been others, from memory MAN-LAX, MAN-HKG, MAN-ISB, BHX-JFK and GLA-JFK.

[LGWAlan]

MAN-ISB was a stop on the LGW-ISB service (as was HKG).

The MAN-LAX resulted in from what I remember a second based B763. The BHX/GLA to JFK were both operated by B752 with the GLA having a stop in BOS or being extended to YYZ for a while

[sisyphus1965]

Just the one long-haul op for BA outside London, MAN-JFK.
In the past there have been others, from memory MAN-LAX, MAN-HKG, MAN-ISB, BHX-JFK and GLA-JFK.

[FougaMagister]

LGW- to Fla/Punta Cana via BGR? Reminds me of a trip I did for Spotty M a few years ago (I was junior cabin crew). Felt sorry for the PAX though - long-haul shouldn't be done on a single-aisle aircraft (we used 757-200s, 235Y).

Had to fly to Phoenix from Brum once; the choice was to go down to LGW (3 hrs. on National Express/Flightlink) or LHR (2 hrs.); instead I took the AA flight from BHX and connected in ORD. Another time I had to go to Jo'burg, and the choice was the same (or EK via Dubai), so I took AF and connected in Paris... altogether shorter than going to either LGW, LHR, and cheaper than connecting in Frankfurt, AMS or CPH!
That's how UK scheduled airlines lose business to the competition...

As for France, you're right, AF don't do long-haul from TLS, LYS, NCE or BOD, but the charter/leisure airlines do; Corsair, Aeris, Aerolyon (RIP), Air Bourbon (no, nothing to do with booze), Star Airlines.

Cheers.

[PAXboy]

You are correct about LH. I worked in MUC for 18 months and an ever expanding set of destinations. However, bear in mind that .de is very much larger than .uk and so may be easier to justify two major hubs.

That said, BA has tried it before (as above). I guess that we are lucky in having many carriers supporting our regional fields, so a txfer via AMS/BRU/CDG/FRA/MAD is not unreasonable.

I am lucky in that I have lived within 35 miles of LHR for 23 years, so connections are not something I know much about!

[LGWAlan]

Hey Fouga - I agree with yo about the long haul on single aisle - but from the pax point of view - they are offered long haul destinations from their local airport - remember BOH-BGR-MCO with AE way back when? (or MME). The worst I can remember on a 752 with Y233 was AIH and AMM a few years back MAN-LGW-BAH-HKT-BKK (euch or what???)

[FougaMagister]

Sorry, LGWAlan, can't remember BOH-BGR-MCO with AE - that must have been before I invaded Britain! I reckon flying from a local airport has advantages, and the 757-200 is then about the right seat capacity. There are also drawbacks, namely the connections.

The flight I was referring to with Spotty M was from LGW to MCO via BGR during August - they could have filled an A300-600R or A330-200 which would have needed no refuelling stop in BGR. That also involved a crew change (with the associated logistics/cost of having a crew on week-stop in Maine) - but as crew, I certainly wasn't complaining about that! The return flight picked PAX inbound from Punta Cana at BGR (another crew change), then onwards to EDI. Long day!

I suspect Monarch are now using their A332s on these routes.

One thing for sure: I wouldn't want to be working in route/scheduling...

Cheers.

[chiglet]

MAN-JFK
MAN-LAX [90% average load]....oops, a "Second" LHR-LAX started
MAN-ISB [Gatwick "bounce"]
MAN-MIA [ditto]
MAN-HKG [Operated by a B737, MAN-LHR...Pax Xfrred]
ONLY [Long Haul] from MAN is JFK....WHY??? :confused:
"Other Airlines fly MAN-"WorldWide"...why not BA?:confused:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Caslance]

chiglet:
"Other Airlines fly MAN-"WorldWide"...why not BA?

Because it isn't London.:*

[HZ123]

I think some of you guys are not keeping up todate. Surely BMI tried or proposed LH using its A330 without much sucess. If you look back to the 767's for BA they were often the dog of the fleet and over the years the punctuality was poor.

It will always be difficult to operate regional long haul. In most cases crews have to be hotac'd the night before and also on return. In the case of BA engineering support was required as was equipment and validation of the staff to operate it. In BA's BHX / GLA operation most of the pax were discounted holiday makers and it was impossible to compete with existing fares from LHR / LGW or Europe. In many of the present long haul routes from MAN you are taking the punters off your LHR / LGW services and am sure that someone out there will confirm that many of the services produce limited profits.

[sisyphus1965]

I do remember the HKG service being operated with Tristars via Delhi (I think).