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JKP505
17th Apr 2003, 17:35
From a little source at NCL... Ryanair are planning to offer European flights from Newcastle, beginning from the Winter timetable. The likely destinations would be: Dublin x4; Stockholm Skavsta x1; Frankfurt Hahn x2; Milan Bergamo x1. Not a base in itself, as it is just joining the dots of FR's other bases.

Likely new easyJet routes to AGP, PMI and NCE, according to my source. NCL-CDG route to fly to ORY.

LH looking to increase NCL-DUS flight to twice daily, and Star Alliance partner Scandinavian keen to restart a CPH service... What about the OSL route?

Who are the Summer 2003 charter carriers from NCL anyway? I know MYT A320/A321; BY B757/B763; SCY B757; TCX B757 are certs, but who is the other one? Hola or MD Airlines, and who will they be flying for? NCL needs AMM back at the airport, to stop sub-standard carriers like these taking up slots.

Possibly, BA have considered dropping ALL routes from NCL. Well, that's only BRS, LGW and LHR?

Is there any foundation to any of this? I think the airport would suffer from real over-capacity if all of this happened?

starone
17th Apr 2003, 18:01
Rumour of BA dropping NCL ex LHr has been around for years and years, can't see lgw being dropped. Brs..? although maybe when ezy startup the route.

BahrainLad
17th Apr 2003, 19:58
In my experience, NCL-LHR has always been +75% full, apart from the last flight on a Saturday evening.

BA would have to be doing uncharacteristically badly yield-wise on this route to drop it, IMHO.

richardhall99
17th Apr 2003, 21:11
Well Im sure that if Ba did drop London Heathrow that BMI would step and save the day. The reason that they have stayed away from Newcastle is because Newcastle used to be a British Airways regional hub, of course it isnt now. With more Star Alliance members using Newcastle Im sure that this would only encourage BMI to come here.

GrahamK
17th Apr 2003, 21:28
Extremly unlikely that BA would drop NCL-LHR.....unlikely about NCL-LGW also, but NCL-BRS....we'll have to wait and see.

Buster the Bear
18th Apr 2003, 00:26
If Copenhagen airport (Operators of NCL) can offer a VERY cheap deal to Ryanair, they may well appear more frequently.

Go-arounder
18th Apr 2003, 02:08
Well Ryanair have publicly declared there intention to join some dots with Newcastle which can only be good for Newcastle and the Northeast. As for over capacity, I don’t think so, the area has cried out for some of these routes for years.
I have just been NCL- BCN with Easy and was impressed with the number of Spanish on the flights! Its right what people say low cost creates a market of people who otherwise wouldn’t have travelled! Newcastle is growing in the city break market, just look at the number of french on the last CDG each friday! Again great for the city of culture bid.

As for BA, I think LGW & LHR are safe for the moment, but who knows after some of BA’s recent decisions! As for the BRS who knows what BACX has in store for the DH8 fleet or the E145’s sitting doing nothing at BRS (press release in Dec02 had the NCL-BRS as an E145 from end March03!). Even with Easy starting BRS in August it is a route which still needs a business service through out the day.

Summer is looking good, the seventh based IT was Hola with a B733 last I heard, but that was over a week ago, any thing could have happened!

starone
18th Apr 2003, 03:32
NCL always had plenty of need for these flights. very big N.Irish community, quite sizeable community from the republic, although spread out over the region. 3 universities, 2 of which particularly attract overseas students, lots of employees on the rigs, increased business and if you go abroad, all you hear is that NCL is the new Dublin/barcelona/amsterdam/prague. Particularly peeved in DUB, since that place is sooooo expensive. I've twice in the past year seen travel articles relating to city breaks in NCl, one french the other spanish. I'm not surprised it's taken off, add to the that the aforementioned lcc 'creating' need, you've got a very full airport.
An example is the fr offer of '1,000,000 free seats' at the mo. I went on the website and decided that with my 2 days off in early june, i'm off to ancona..never ever wanted to go there, but it's 20 quid and a quick trip to the appeninos never hurt anybody.

transwede
18th Apr 2003, 03:43
Good news for the airport if FR come up with the goods. Milan, Frankfurt and Stockholm would be great for the region. I've always thought Newcastle was under served. As for easyJet PMI, AGP and NCE will be a money-spinner for them. Maybe easy could throw an ATH service in, as theres a large greek community and Axon Airlines once looked into it.

I also heard LH were going twice daily, shame they couldn't get twice daily slots into FRA. Nice to see 'big' airlines like SK showing an interest in NCL, atlast.

Go-arounder I don't think we'll have to wait too long for the BA BRS-NCL route to get chopped. Rumour has it that BACX FSAS Part III is on its way and BRS base is for the chop. As for the LHR/LGW they're here to stay....hopefully.

Finally on the charter side this summer there is the usual mix, with the addition of Hola Airlines 737-300, working on behalf of Excel Airways. JKP505 the only reason that airlines such as Hola come into NCL is that Excel do not have enough aircraft to base one of their own, so better that than nothing at all.

Usual foreign carriers serving NCL, with new Turkish carrier Inter Airlines debuting on fridays and Malmo Aviation doing the VCE charter. Having said this, thats all past info as the airport have not yet produced a Charter Programme for Summer 2003 or if they have I don't know where i can see a copy!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone got any ideas????

MerchantVenturer
19th Apr 2003, 20:07
Go-arounder,

The BA Citiexpress BRS-NCL is operated by a DH-8 as you say.It seems to start and finish the day at Plymouth and, according to the timetable, provides a revenue earning PLH-BRS in the early morning and a return in the late evening. Not sure whether this is the reason why the DH 8 is retained on the BRS-NCL route, given that the ERJ 145 is too 'big' for PLH. I would not have thought so because I can't think the BRS-PLH route is very profitable (the rail and road connections are too good).

I believe that BRS has six ERJ 145s based there now CWL has closed its base, but probably only five are needed to service the current routes structure. This does pose the question as to what is going to happen at BRS with BA. More routes or a prelude to closure of the base?

transwede,

How strong are the BRS BA closure rumours? Any time scale? I haven’t heard any definite rumours, except that one always wonders who will be next, following BA’s recent track record.

At present there are 22 BA rotations from BRS each weekday with a slightly lower number at weekends. These rumours could be self-fulfilling because they might make people like me reluctant to book BA flights from BRS for dates later in the year.

What I will say is that twelve of the rotations compete head to head with easyJet and Ryanair. One wonders how at BA's prices they can go on, although people do seem prepared to pay over the odds to fly to such places as EDI and GLA (five daily BA rotations to each of these Scottish airports - easyJet has three to each).

My son did the BRS-NCL-BRS route a few weeks ago (teatime flight to NCL on a Monday and early evening return two days later) and reported a virtually full aircraft in both directions. And the flights weren't cheap - he took eight of his staff with him on a business trip at fares I would not have paid for leisure purposes.
He works for a major international company that so far does not seem to have pulled in its travel costs too much.

MAN_Dispatcher
21st Apr 2003, 07:45
Which handling agents do Easyjet & Ryanair use at NCL?

Also, which other airlines do each of the 2 handling agents handle these days at NCL?

redfield
22nd Apr 2003, 03:37
MAN_Despatcher: Easyjet and Ryanair both handled by Servisair at NCL. Servisair also have FlyBE, MyTravel, Lufthansa, Air France (op by FlyBE), Wideroe, Norwegian, all the mail flights and most of the cargo flights, and in the summer Spanair, Pegasus, Hola, Aegean, Hemus...there might be others. Groundstar handle all the BA flights, Eastern Airways (£17 per turn-round I hear, how can Groundstar make money on that deal?), Air 2000 when they're in, JMC, Britannia, Monarch, Air Europa, Eurocypria and a few other charters in the summer. I might have missed a few, I haven't worked there for a while. Any RAF flights are handled by Samson aviation on the far side of the airfield.

transwede
23rd Apr 2003, 02:24
MAN Dispatcher here is a full list of airlines and their agents at NCL, hope its of some use and bear in mind airlines do visit on an adhoc basis alot at NCL.

Servisair
MYT/Spanair/Air Luxor/Aero LLoyd/Ryanair/EAC/Easy/Air Malta/EuroAtlantic/Islandflug/Hola Airlines/Titan/Futura/Aegean/Pegasus/Excel/Helios/Fly Be/Air France/Wideroe/Tyrolean/Onur Air/Flightline/Inter Airlines/Malmo Aviation/Norweigan

Groundstar
BA/AMM/TCX/BY/Scandic/Monarch/Iberworld/Air Transat/Sunexpress/Eastern/SN Brussels/KLM uk/MD Airlines/BH air/Hemus/Eurocypria/Air Europa/bmi

:ok:

Tom the Tenor
23rd Apr 2003, 04:09
I know Newcastle - Cork has been tried a few times in the past and has done poorly. Those flights were nearly on a daily basis. What about just three or four times weekly - would it work?

Go-arounder
23rd Apr 2003, 05:00
Cork did very well with BACX load factors averaged 60-65% but yield poor, would suit a low cost once a day?:D

MerchantVenturer
24th Apr 2003, 19:13
posted by transwede:
".....................I don't think we'll have to wait too long for the BA BRS-NCL route to get chopped. Rumour has it that BACX FSAS Part III is on its way and BRS base is for the chop.

posted by MerchantVenturer:
"How strong are the BRS BA closure rumours? Any time scale? I haven’t heard any definite rumours, except that one always wonders who will be next, following BA’s recent track record.

At present there are 22 BA rotations from BRS each weekday with a slightly lower number at weekends. These rumours could be self-fulfilling because they might make people like me reluctant to book BA flights from BRS for dates later in the year."
--------------------------------------------

transwede,

I don't know whether you saw my question (above) re your earlier comments about BRS BA base closure rumours. If you did I take it there is nothing further you can add at this time.

richardhall99
24th Apr 2003, 19:38
One problem with Bristol that it is very close to London so therefore it doesnt link to any of the British Airways hubs. There are no big jets to speak of that are operated by the airline and the fact that Bristol and Cardiff are home to two major low cost airlines makes it very difficult for BA to compete.

FLYbe to increase capacity on the NCL-BHD route by a third with bigger aircraft.

MerchantVenturer
25th Apr 2003, 01:56
richard,

Yes, I accept what you say is true but it does seem strange that Brymon (now BACX) built up the routes,and BA did not close the BRS base when they closed all routes from CWL and LBA last year, yet now there are rumours (or a rumour) it is to close.

I'm going off topic. Maybe I will start a thread about this, although I do not like doing so based on a rumour, that is why I hoped transwede (who mentioned the rumour in the first place) might be able to amplify. I'll wait another day or so to see if he has any further information.

Incidentally, I note you come from the land of Shearer and I wonder how sales for the easyJet NCL-BRS route are shaping up. It doesn't start until August and there were some tasty introductory fares. I managed to get a BRS-NCL-BRS fare for £15 all-in (bought at the time EZY were paying the UK tax).

richardhall99
25th Apr 2003, 22:10
I was just wondering how the new Eastern Airways flights from Newcastle were doing compared to when they were operated by British Airways?

Arent Eastern Airways alot more business passenger minded?

Thanks

Call it sched!
25th Apr 2003, 23:39
MAN Despatcher: Generally Servisair handle the "cheapies" and Groundstar handle the "quality".

Division of work in NCL at the mo is about 60% Groundstar / 40% Servisair.

Just a thought..... how long will Servisair hang on to Easy?
Groundstar have a track record of taking work off Servisair, BY/AMM/KLM/SN and Easy (and Ryan) are handled by Groundstar in STN.

Rumour has it Easy will join Groundstar in NCL within the year.

Richardhall99: Eastern pax figures well down (and falling) on what BACX were carrying on same flights. They are MUCH more expensive than BACX were which might explain it.

Technical reliability has improved on the "screamers" under Eastern but generally the overall service is not as good as that offered by BACX. Poor morale among crews and a "small airline" mentality are not helping.

NB: BRS-NCL-BRS BACX loadfactors holding up extremely well.
punctuality and reliability on this route now 100%

richardhall99
26th Apr 2003, 03:15
I was rumaging through Ceefax and found a 09.45 flight arriving into Newcastle from Stavanger operated by Wideroe. Since when has this flight operated or is it a charter?

johnwalton
26th Apr 2003, 07:09
richardhall99,

That would be the scheduled Saturday morning rotation which Wideroe have had in place for about 5/6 weeks now. It arrives and departs about 90 minutes earlier than the Mon - Fri service. I think they introduced the additional day instead of going twice daily Monday - Friday, like they do on a Sunday. Operated with the usual DH3 equipment.

redfield
27th Apr 2003, 04:38
Call it sched:
"Rumour has it that Easy will join Groundstar at NCL within the year." I doubt this will happen. Firstly, despite the fact that Easy are handled by Groundstar at STN, the Easy "boffins" absolutely slated the handling at STN in their recent audit in a variety of areas. Secondly, I don't think that Easy would get the 20 minute turnrounds they're after if they went to Groundstar at NCL, also they wouldn't get any priority handling ahead of the "qualities" like BA and KLM. All sorts of reasons why Groundstar take contracts from Servisair at NCL, mostly due to the fact that Servisair management won't (not can't) compete on price with Groundstar, won't (not can't) acquire any decent ramp equpment, and won't (not can't) treat their staff properly. On the up side, Servisair got the TU154's back this summer!!!!! :uhoh:

JKP505
28th Apr 2003, 06:51
Just read on airliners.net that TCX are basing another a/c at NCL for the S2004 season... Any further info?

transwede
29th Apr 2003, 02:48
JKP505 going back to your original post, you mentioned substandaard carriers taking up slots. As far back as I can remember NCL has always had these airlines stationed during the summer months, from the likes of Transwede (!) to Nordic, Seven Air to name but a few. These airlines nearly always work onbehalf of a UK carrier. This summer Hola Airlines will be present.

This is where I start to rant.

They had promised 7 very experienced Cabin Crew jobs at NCL for the summer. Logical when you think the aircraft is flying from the UK to Greece carrying Geordie holidaymakers, so english crew make sense. Yes? Well as of today Hola have told the UK crew, already recruited to get st***ed as they want their own Spanish crew! My point is why should airlines do this? These people are taking up jobs which could easily be filled with experienced local cabin crew.

I now totally agree with your first point. Why does Excel not make a base of NCL, using their own aircraft and send airlines like Hola to LGW or MAN.

Bring back AMM to NCL. Hoorah for TCX basing a second aircraft!!:mad:

JKP505
29th Apr 2003, 04:56
These two-bit airlines generally do offer nothing to the traveller but misery, and tour operators who continually use them should be named and shamed.

Last year NCL had a Transjet MD83 based with some delays reaching about 22 hours. Sunways Intersun also had a reasonable presence at NCL, and came to a sour end, but I don't recall TWE being all that bad?

JKP505
9th May 2003, 04:19
Where are Air 2000 anyway? According to the First Choice and Sunquest brochures, they timetable as follows:

Monday - Corfu and Bodrum; Tue - Heraklion; Wed - Zakynthos and Paphos; Fri - Reus and Dalaman; Sat - Kos; Sun - Monastir and Larnaca.

Besides these, there are a Mahon 'W' on Fri, another Corfu flight on Mondays and another Reus flight on Fridays, though these aren't 'W' flights, they don't fit into the 'timetable'.

So where are Air 2000? If they aren't using NCL this season, are they 2004?

transwede
9th May 2003, 05:24
JKP505 with regards to Transwede back in 1996 the delays they had were horrendous, and believe me I suffered! Some reached over 32 hours. This was a prime example of those 'two-bit' misery airlines, dispatching the crew in taxis all around the country and not to mention the passengers view of things.

As for Air 2000, they closed their NCL operating base two years ago and as far as I gather they have no intention on reopening it for S04. they have contracted TCX with their second based 757 to do much of their work. The only flights they have this year are a Tue night REU and a friday MAH, both W's. Any other flights listed as AMM are either operated by another airline or combined onto another operators.

Lastly, FlyBE are to upgrade their NCL-BHD route to Dash8-400 and also replacing 146 with Dash on the AF CDG service. not sure when it comes into effect though.

starone
9th May 2003, 17:06
Is the be af marked crj still in ncl? where does it operate to and where is it going?

starship
9th May 2003, 18:20
The Flybe CRJ's in Air France colours are G-JECA and CD. There is no CRJ based in Newcastle - this went with the termination of the BRU last year. The CRJ fleet is going at this time and CC is already sitting at EXT in Air Sahara colours.

G-JECA can be most often seen operating the BE429/430 BHD-NCL-BHD, and appears to be BHD based for the most part. If you want to get a last glimpse of her do so now.

The Q400 will undoubtedly have to come onto NCL-BHD anyway, as the classics are going - the date, and which aircraft in the delivery sequence have yet to be announced. NCL based crews need to do the Q400 course.

What was the source regarding the AF NCL-CDG and the Q400?

JKP585 - Most of the First Choice operation as Transwede stated is contracted out and appear as blocks on the likes of TCX and BY. Sunquest flights from NCL will use Onur Air. For a very basic guide to who operates for who, look here, bearing in mind that it is an old issue :

NCL Charter (http://www.newcastleairport.com/docs/Tour_Ops_Guide1.pdf)

Transwede! Everyone loves to hate the third party operators, but they do generate interest, as you well know - hope you enjoyed your MD87 :cool:

richardhall99
9th May 2003, 21:34
Does the Dash take as long as the AT7 did when Gill did the CDG route becuase that journey wasnt short of two hours. Against a jet there is no way that people will pay for an even journey which is even more expensive

GrahamK
9th May 2003, 23:58
Believe the speed of the DH4 is only a small amount slower than the Bae 146. But, I think that the NCL-CDG route will stay on the jet.

transwede
10th May 2003, 01:57
I heard the dash 8-400 was to take over the NCL-CDG route from next year, as the 146 aircraft is needed to fly the new locost leisure services from the likes of SOU, EXT and BHX. In addition to which I fear FlyBe may be reacting to the NCL-Paris route by easy! It will be nice to see the -400 in NCL, though it will be passing through this summer on a Salzburg charter, I believe.

And starship I did have fun on the old MD87 with transwede, ah those taxi journeys to god knows where to operate a flight 27 hours late. The pax were, well lovely..........?

:yuk: :mad:

It just seems NCL always gets the worst of the third party operators, Nordic, transwede, Seven Air, Transjet! As for this summers naughty one, Hola Airlines, well they have yet to make an appearance, all flights being contracted out so far.......:confused: :confused:

JKP505
10th May 2003, 16:55
does anyone else think that FlyBE missed a great opportunity to creat a base at NCL when British Airways left?

Logically FlyBE could have been serving - Belfast, Birmingham, Brussels, Isle of Man, Jersey, Paris and Southampton.

I expected FlyBE to be a substantial operator for Newcastle, it seem like they are getting their nose pushed out a bit.

I think Eastern Airways could turn out to be a big user of NCL, as it will undobtedly expand

richardhall99
10th May 2003, 17:47
Where else could Eastern Airways fly from Newcastle with their Jetstreams?

JKP505
10th May 2003, 17:57
Eastern Airways also have two ERJ-135. I was thinking a bit longer term, maybe if they get replacements for the J41s.

GrahamK
10th May 2003, 18:32
Im taking a guess here, but if Eastern were to expand from NCL, I would think they would increase frequencies on existing routes first before adding any new routes.
Possible new routes could be Cardiff, Norwich and maybe Cork?

Roster Puppet
11th May 2003, 23:46
"I did have fun on the old MD87 with transwede, ah those taxi journeys to god knows where to operate a flight 27 hours late. The pax were, well lovely..........? "

Well obviously Swedish Law permitted the employment of young teenagers as cabin crew then, even before they had left school!

Imagine that, all day at school, taxi NCL-BHX operate a night Crete, taxi back home and then off to school again! Those were the days eh? (!) :rolleyes:

Of course all this time spent going "to God knows where",(!?) did mean that there were plenty of opportunities to get the homework finished and, become an authority on aviation too!
(Bit like all that time spent "passing through NCL" really!)
Heh..heh...heh....

P.S. Tongue firmly placed in cheek, and still looking forward to that coffee in the BAL crewroom, "my little veteran" ? !:O

transwede
12th May 2003, 01:55
Roster Puppet I'd like to thank you for your comments on my age, I am flattered but I think you've got the wrong person!

:}

I'd like to think I was at school back then but sadly I wasn't. I was doing a season for TQ! However to clarify matters I am now based in Lgw for a major charter company in the same role as you are and don't often get back to NCL, though I do still have good friends who still work in the NCL airport community and still think fondly of NCL. Which is why I show so much interest!

Good , glad I've cleared that one up. I hope you find the individual who you were referring to! And i'm sure coffee in the Britannia crew room would be lovely, sadly its a long way from my 737 in LGW!!!!!!!!!!!!

(By the way, if you are accusing individuals, whats the point in having usernames?) :confused: :confused:

lagerloutflyer
12th May 2003, 02:04
JKP505 not sure I agree with your comments saying that Eastern could be a big user of newcastle. The routes they took on are ex BA routes, I believe and eastern are charging higher fares. Passenger response is not what was hoped for so I think they may just remain with what they have. Unless larger embraers were brought in of course?

However Flybe did miss out on a big opportunity when BA withdrew its regional services from NCL. Look whats happened down in SOU. They are making a good shot of it, shame it could not have been mirrored in NCL! Scheduled domestic routes, together with european leisure destinations.

NCL could do with regular links to the likes of Milan, Jersey, Geneva, South of France, Germany etc... Or do Ryanair have plans in store????

Roster Puppet
12th May 2003, 02:16
Okey-dokey, then "M" it is !
;)