Cheapest way to get JAR´s CPL & ATPL

[Airgus]

I am a PP 200 tt (OACi) trying to get the CPL & ATPL in Europe (if it is in Germany, better).
Can any of you tell me wich is the best and cheapest country to get the JAR?, If there any way to get financial support from the goverment or non profits organizations?.

Thanks :ok:

[FougaMagister]

Hi mate - I think Germany is not yet fully JAR compliant - at least that's the feeling I get from writing to German airlines (some still insist on German CAA licences) and from what the head of the licensing dept. at the French DGAC told me. Moreover, they're not known to be cheap, flight training-wise...

Personnaly I would recommend Spanish FTOs (can't get any names out in the open, the moderator would fall upon me like a ton of bricks, so send me a private msg. if interested); they're way cheaper and some are really good. On top of that, hardly any met. delays, Spain is a full JAA member state, and the lifestyle is, well... Spanish! Guess you speak Spanish if you write from ARG.

Hasta luego hombre.

[FlyingForFun]

Can't get any names out in the open, the moderator would fall upon me like a ton of bricksI can't speak for the moderators, but personally I wouldn't have a problem with you posting names, as long as you don't have any financial connection with the organisations concerned (or, if you do, so long as you declare them, and your post isn't a blatant advert).

I believe that the UK is the only JAR-compliant country which has authorised schools outside Europa to offer JAR flight training. So if you went for a UK-issued license you'd be able to take advantage of cheap schools in places such as the US and South Africa.

FFF
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[Mak]

I've been wondering about that myself, not for CPL but for IR. However I've wondered if for the IR there any problem getting a non-uk IR rating, as long as it is JAR.

FougaMagister: Would be glad if you could send me spanish contacts too. Thanks.

[FougaMagister]

Hey, FFF, I was only trying to be humourous here! I have no financial interest whatsoever in any FTO/TRTO, so no worries here.

My point was that having been JAA trained in Florida, SA and Britain, I have sampled some of these options.

1/ USA: real cheap, great fun, good airspace, but post 09/11, much harder/longer to get the relevant visas (usually M1).

2/ SA: so far, only one CAA-approved school, good training, but admin/finance side too lax for most. Cheap though.

3/ UK: no worries, but the IR was even more expensive than expected... Got another first time pass though.

4/ Therefore, Spain looks like a decent option: about 20% cheaper than Britain, good flying weather (CPL is 90% VFR), you can do your IR entirely there (since you answer to the Spanish CAA), and it's fully JAR. The larger FTOs are: AEROFAN (www.aerofanfto.com) in Madrid, AIRMED (www.airmed.es) in Valencia, and AEROMADRID (www.aeromadrid.com) - but here English doesn't seem to be their forte...

Their MCC courses, however,while done on 757 or A320 sims, are dearer than comparable ones in UK.

Hope that helps.
Cheers.

[madman1145]

Hello there;

Yep, can also say that Spain is a nice place to train - weather is supposed to be nice (havn't seen that yet since I started down here in February - has been quite cold and cloudy with only a few sunny days). Landscape is looking good with small and medium mountains all around - looking very much forward to get up in the air next week ..

As my CV shows, I'm a student at Airmed - so fare I have nothing to complain about the place ..
Good teachers, they know their stuff and they do speak English that is either understandable, fine or perfect (3 of them are from the UK/Scotland) ...
And we are gonna start our training on PA-28 - that fleet is fairly new - from the 90's :D ..

About Aerofan - what can I say - visited the school along with Airmed last year - walked away with a big laugh and shaking on my head - don't wanna talk further about schools that I can't say anything positive about in public - send me a private mail and I'll answer you :ok: ...

Aero Madrid - have a good reputation in the business in Spain and one of the largest schools, they do fixed wing and heli as well - but this year is there first English classes - wanna be a testbunny for that :uhoh: ...

BAe Systems in Jerez - again, good reputation - I suppose it's a good school but I didn't visit them - one reason, didn't wanna spend more money on this education than necessary ...

Just my point of view ...

[JohnnyPharm]

Good teachers, they know their stuff and they do speak English that is either understandable, fine or perfect (3 of them are from the UK/Scotland) ...

I know you are Danish but Scotland IS in the UK.

Just pointing it out.

[madman1145]

Right :} ..
Just wanna emphasice it - since there might be Scottish people who would like to see themself as apart from - you know ;) ..

[ECHIE]

I have done my Integrated ATPL at Airmed in Valencia. At the moment I am finishing my Instructor course at Aeromadrid. My advise would be to go to visit the schools. It is a big investment and you want to make sure this school is the best for you. Personnaly I would advise you to go to aeromadrid. They have a very nice fleet, very good instructors and the organistion is perfect!! If you have any questions about one of these schools you can always send me a privat message or send me an email to [email protected].

With kind regards,

Theo

[Airman27]

Hey Guys,

Im here in Sydney and have to move to New York in the next 3 months as my wife has just been transfered there and I was hoping that someone could give me some info on converting my CAA ( Australian ) ATPL to the FAA ATPL easily and cheaply ?

It would be preferable to do the study here prior to leaving so that I can sit the exam when I get there but even the name or number of somewhere that I can do it would be of great help !

I believe that I will have to sit an exam and then do a flight test is this correct ?

And also that I can get the questions for the exam from some where prior but dont know where to start to look ??

Thanks in advance
Airman27
:confused:

[WhiteDevil]

hiya guys,
FougaMagister
Many thanks for posting the links. They seem to be another good alternative if i am rejected from the sponsorship schemes from Airlines... :ok:

The other thing is the AEROMADRID website has so many courses i am unsure which i would need to study...

For an 18 year old with:

11 GCSE's (Grade A-C)
4 A/S Levels (Grade A-C)
Previous experience in the Air Training Corps


which courses would be appropriate?
I am guessing i would need to go the full length, starting with a PPL, then CPL, then ATPL...

Anyone in the know i would appreciate any guidance ;)

WhiteDevil

[No. 2]

WhiteDevil,,

May I suggest that you get a copy of 'The Guide to getting a Commercial Pilot's Licence' by Clive Hughes. It'll explain all the differernt licences and ratings. It's sounds like you could do with reading it. Before I read it, I didn't know what was involved in getting a professional licence.

Here's the link if you're interested

http://www.ppl-atpl.demon.co.uk/

[FougaMagister]

Hi white Devil - try to get as much info as you can before making up your mind. Visit any local flying club and ask the instructor(s) to explain it all to you - he/she is bound to have been through all the training. Go for the sponsorships schemes, but even if you get one of them, remember that it has been known for some of the sponsoring airlines (BMI, Aer Lingus,...) to stop the scheme midway through their cadets' training when they were in deep s..t! - so you might want to have a "plan B" in case you need to finance part of your "sponsored" training.

If you don't get a sponsorship, you will have to choose between integrated or modular training. Integrated is supposed to be quicker, but you need more money up front. With modular you can pretty much "pay as you go". The usual way is PPL, then night rating (no exam), then IMC (not mandatory but useful), then written ATPLs (the hardest bit in my opinion), then CPL, multi-engine, and finally Instrument Rating (plus MCC if you can afford it by then).

Overall it's hard to do it all in less than 15 months for integrated and 18-19 months for modular. Also, the quotes given by FTOs relate to minimum flight training hrs, so add 25% to the quote to be on the safe side (that's if you pass all skill tests first time!). On top of that you have CAA test/exam fees, which over the course of the 10 modules, represent quite some dosh!

Hope you're not too depressed by now... More info, send me a private mail.

Cheers.

[madman1145]

Hi ECHIE;

Just wanna comment you on your words about AeroMadrid ..
I have no doubt that the school is good thinking about the instructors and the fleet - said it myself, because that what I was tolled by different people - even my own school (quite honest them saying that) ..

The reason why I didn't even visit them, even that I walked right by them at the Airport visiting Aerofan - and I wanted to visit them - was that they didn't answer my query's - or if they did, I had to wait like weeks or months for an answer - other schools can manage to do that the same day or no more than 1-3 days later - I gave them a limit of 1 week to answer an email - that should be enough time ..
That was in summer 2002 - I know one who called them recently, long distance call - she had to wait on the phone for ages ..

So about having a perfect organisation - I don't know man :ugh: ..
If you are having the luck to talk to them, tell them mine and hers experience :ouch: ..

The above is THE reason why they lost me as a potential student - if they didn't bother to answer me, why should I bother thinking about them - and there might be even more people that got that same experience ..
Just to let them know that they might wanna tune up that part of their organisation so they can become even bether :ok: ...


Best Regards;
Martin - a happy Airmed student :cool:

[Fogbound]

Please be very careful when choosing an FTO because it is the Cheapest. There are so many hidden costs which can make a cheap price very expensive when you add them in.

Expensive doesn't necessarily mean better but then again cheap doesn't necessarily mean worse!

At the end of the day a cheap school may compromise the quality of the training by cutting corners to keep the cost low. There are other non-monetary factors to take into consideration, eg, If you are one of six students to an instructor or manuals are poorly reproduced, then training quality is degraded and you may find you end up paying more than anticipated in resits or extra training.

[Airman27]

Guys I need help to convert my CAA ATPL to FAA ATPL quickly !

I have the Gliems study material but need to know what else has to be done when I get there ie

What type of flight test is required ?
Can it be done in a sim ?
Can it be combined with an endorsement ( Type ) test ?

How much training ie flying will be needed prior to doing the test or is any required at all ?

please help or sugest where I can look for more info as I need this ASAP !!

Cheers
:confused: