TUI's Fleet Renewal

[Airline Tycoon]

After reading last weeks Flight International article, I was wondering what types the TUI pilot's would like to get there hands on and what types they think the company will go for.

Flight talks about 767-400 or A330-200 for longhaul and 737-900 or A321 for short haul.

[Localiser Green]

A little birdie in TUI Airline Management I know happened to tell me (back in December) that the Airbus option was presently favoured over the Boeing. Would be nice for BAL to get some 767-400s though...

Decision due "in the Summer"...

[Pilot Pete]

Does the Boeing option mentioned above cause problems with 'dual rating'? If so then that would appear another point in favour of Airbus.

What about TC? I heard that JMC/TC were unhappy with the A-330 reliability? Anyone got the facts?

PP

[thegypsy]

Localiser Green Why would it be nice for BAL to get 767-400's?? Please explain.

As someone who has flown both 767 -200 and 300,s I cannot get excited about the prospect of flying a -400. Am I missing something here??

[World of Tweed]

I don't fly them(yet) but I do work On them and frankly I'd be disappointed to see the 767-400 chosen. Its stirkes me as a re-hashed version of the 767-300 that competes at the low end of the 777's market. I'm sure it was a good idea at the time and indeed does 'Grow' markets (if you need that capacity) but I can't see it providing any real benefits over the -300 within the scope of BAL ops.

On the cabin crew conferences last month we were given a presentation by one of our directors whom we pressed on this very issue. He told us that the fleet renewal desicions may be held off until Boeing can formalise the spec for the 7E7. I think his words were something like "we will of examine that option Very closely". Lets face it a 250-300 seat twinjet comparable to the 767 with 20% less fuel burn ....hmmmm I think that sounds mightly like "On Time Every Time...we'll take 25 please!". (especially if Boeing does one of its 'Buy One get your Fleet Free' deals just to guzump Airbus) Having said that Boeing might deicide to cancel that too.

whatever it is I just hope they consult the hosties to avoid a -300 like 'Telephone box for a galley' incident.

[Torquelink]

Wouldn't bet on the B767-400 if TUI need good residual value performance or lessor interest - 37 sold to just two operators (CO and DL). On the other hand Boeing will cut the deal of deal to get more orders I suppose. B7E7 - can they wait until 2008 for first deliveries? Maybe Boeing will offer 764s with a trade to 7E7s later.

[akerosid]

I would be surprised to see the 764 selected, since - as already pointed out - it's been a pretty poor seller. That said, Boeing does have an advantage in that most TUI member airlines - Hapag Lloyd, Britannia and Neos - have significant 738 fleets. If it is a 737, it will be an -800, not a -900, as these are limited to 189 seats, despite the extra length.

Personally, I'd expect a 332 order for the widebody side of it, with 738s for short haul.

[xyz_pilot]

I was told that the current version of the 767-400 is door limited and can’t take a full load of charter pitch seats.

Any firm info?

[Torquelink]

According to Boeing 764 will take up to 375 one class pax. Also I'm sure I read somewhere that they are reviewing 739 emergency exits with a view to pushing max capacity to 220 but I can't remember where I saw it.

[swedish]

TUI are looking at the B737-900x which has additional overwing exits and therefore the 189 limitation does not apply.
The B767-400 - as I understand it - in a charter config is only usable on shorthaul routes - UK to Orlando is not possible with a full load.
Both B737-900x and A321 (basic) both have performance problems from some Greek destinations and from UK airports such as LBA.
Not an easy decision........

[Frosch]

Nice discussion. Initially the “plans” were to be fixed by Dec 2002....
In my opinion the question is not "what & when" but more likely "if any". TUI is not a company with too much cash around this time... .

The only possibility would be an increase of leased aircraft in exchange for owned ones – not what I would like to see.

[Knold]

With the dual rating thingy;
As I've understood it, the -900X will not come as a hotted or stretched -900. More like a smaller 757 with newer cockpit. I.e higher gear and wot nut.

Jeez, I'm I gonna get bashed for this :rolleyes:

[Tommyinyork]

Ideally for BY would be to buy some 777s to replace 767-200s and buy 757-300 to replace older 757s.

[GrahamK]

Replace 762s with 777s? Could you really see airports where the 762s are based in the summer filling 777s eg Newcastle and East Midlands?

[Wycombe]

....as a pax, having just endured a long-haul charter (LGW-CUN) by 763 (AMM), I can only say that 8 across in a 767 is pretty undesirable (and I thought that £250 each was a lot to pay for a family of 4 to get into the 7 across "premium" section at the front).

Arriving at CUN and seeing the larger MYT 330 parked next door did make me wish I been cooped up in that for 10h15 instead (PTV's aswell unlike Air 2k :( )

Ooops, silly me for even thinking that the Customer might have a say.

BTW, :ok: to the AMM CC for friendly and efficient service

[Confirmed Must Ride]

after working alot with the 764, hope they dont go for it. Anything over about 7-8 hours and you are looking at a weight restriction.
As soon as you get anything other than standard ISA you are up against it.