Conversion to JAA

[McIce]

I recently posted the following letter to the CAA. No reply two weeks later. Would it be possible to get a couple of opinions of what is required.
I know this will probably confuse things even more but I feel I've got to try. The letter.......


I currently hold an Australian Commercial Pilots Licence having just completed a 150 hour integrated course. Immigration circumstances have dictated that I can no longer reside in Australia and as such I wish to convert my licence to a ‘JAA‘. I have contacted various flight organisations who all have different views on what is required and have suggested that I write to yourselves for a definitive answer.
In addition to the conversion I wish to carry on with my training and do C.I.R. and A.T.P.L. theory. Could you please supply to me the minimum requirements I have to meet for this conversion and in order to keep myself ’current’ would it be possible to fly under some certificate of authorisation.

Thanks in advance
Ice

[Luke SkyToddler]

There's squillions of threads floating about on this forum that deal with conversion from down under to JAA licences. Do a search for posts by Redsnail or myself, there are several long posts that spell it out in detail.

In brief, you'll need to do :

JAA ATPL theory course of training + exams (about 3,000 quid)

Whatever hours you need to get minimum 200 hours, including 25 hours of compulsory CPL dual training + CPL flight test (5 or 6,000 quid + hour building)

If you have no instrument rating, then you'll need to do I believe around 60 or 70 hours of compulsory dual training + IR flight test (10 - 12,000 quid)

Although it's not compulsory for licence issue, if you want a dog's show of an airline job you'll need to do a Multi Crew Cooperation (MCC) course (2,500 or so)

Suggest you at least try to get the Oz CPL and IR issued before you head over to the UK, it will save you a lot on conversion costs. Needless to say, in the current climate jobs for freshly qualified CPL holders are as rare as rocking horse sh!t so make sure you pick a UK school to train at, that might let you hang about and work as an FI until things pick up a bit.

[Fogbound]

I don't know where LukeSkytoddler got his information from but if you do not already hold a non-JAA IR then the full IR course is a minimum 55 hour course (not 60-70!) If you are the holder of a CPL then you are eligible for a 5 hour reduction on this, bringing the course to 50 hours. A minimum of 15 hours must be completed on the multi-engine type for test.

You will need to complete all 14 of the JAA ATPL examinations and the following to convert the relevant licences:

CPL
The holder of a current and valid CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA state may be issued with a JAR-FCL CPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.55(b) & (C) have been met. Applicants must:

· Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate.
· Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (ie ATPL(A) level) must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
· Undertake flying training as determined by the Head of Training of a FTO approved to conduct CPL(A) modular flying training courses, sufficient to obtain the pre-entry Form 170A (to include 5 hours on a complex aeroplane type if this requirement has not been previously satisfied) and pass the CPL(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 & 2 to JAR-FCL 1.170) with a CAA Flight Examiner.
· Qualify for the Issue of a UK Flight Radio Telephony Operators Licence (FRTOL)

IR
The holder of a current and valid Instrument Rating Aeroplane (IR(A)) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be issued with a JAR-FCL IR(A) providing the experience requirements as detailed in Section E1.2 have been met. Applicants must complete the following:

· Undertake IR theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider.
· Pass all JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at IR level. Applicants who have passed JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level are exempted from this requirement.
· Complete a minimum of 15 hour instrument flying instruction (of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT 1 or 10 hours in a FNPT 2 or flight simulator.
· Complete any additional IR training considered necessary by the FTO
· Pass the 170A flight test
· Pass the IR(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 &2 to JAR-FCL 1.210) with a CAA Flight Examiner

[Luke SkyToddler]

Fogbound :

Apologies for any errors there, I got my information from having gone through the whole process myself 4 years ago, and my wife working through the ATPL conversion at present.

However, you're right in that it seems he won't have to do the 25 hour CPL training course if he has an Oz CPL issued, however he will still need to get 200 TT. And yep the compulsory training requirement for the IR is 55 hours, I'll still claim accuracy with the price around 10-12,000 though :(

Anyway McIce I presume it's your first dealings with the UK CAA if you're expecting a quick reply to a letter! :rolleyes: All the requirements are laid out on their website, in the LASORS document to be more precise, try this link http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp?groupid=292

[Sir Donald]

Get your 14 Theory subjets out the way first.
ATPL approx £2000+£718 CAA fee.
CPL 15 HRS Max, if you are told otherwise hang up the phone and try the next FTO on the list.
The IR, depending on who you speak to, it took me 15 hrs
including the flight test,first attempt= pass, the rest were quoting me ridicilous summs using examples like:'' UK airspace this and that'' Bulls$%t. No hidden extras. One FTO's Classical Example:''MULTI-ENGINE RATING from scratch''. All that you need is a test!
Be carefull who you talk to and do a thorough research before commiting.
Send a PM for more info.
The Don.

[flyingcircus]

sir don,

could you check your mailbox.

cheers flying circus

[McIce]

Thanks for the help guys I'll get my head around it all eventually (When I come out of the bathroom after being sick from looking at the prices over here)
:yuk:

[Tinstaafl]

I think the 15 hr minimum training for the IR only applies if you already hold an ICAO IR.

[flying jocks]

There is no need to do the mandatory 55 hours of training anymore for holders of a foreign ICAO IR. The level has been reduced to 15 hours minimum and then at the discretion of the FTO. Have a look at the CAA website and check the AICs for the last 2 years. The details should be there

[Luke SkyToddler]

Yeah but the guy doesn't have any instrument rating at all according to his original question, "... carry on with my training and do C.I.R. and ATPL theory', the C.I.R. is what the Ozmates call their instrument ratings.

So he's going to have to do the full 55 hours if he just pitches up in the UK with Oz CPL and no ICAO IR, n'est ce pas?

What we should all be able to agree on McIce is that you will save a fair bit of cash if you get your Oz instrument rating and multi engine endorsement before you head to UK, it will save you at least about 40 hours of training at UK prices, which is a massive consideration when British twin training aircraft go out at anywhere between 200 and 350 pounds per hour.