"Foggles" or "Jiffy Hood"?

[Aussie Andy]

Hopefully soon to start IMC training. The aircraft in which I expect to be doing this does not have screens fitted, so I need to get Foggles of Jiffy Hood, as illustrated below:

Foggles:
http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/picture?pic=24660023&table=pictures

Jiffy Hood:
http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/picture?pic=24690023&table=pictures

I have heard, for instance, that with the foggles, you can inadvertently end up relying on peripheral vision to notice when the aircraft change its pitch or bank, which would seem to make the hood a better idea?

Please let me know what you think before I order them!

Cheers,


Andy

[drauk]

The big thing for me was that the hood was really uncomfortable, putting quite a lot of pressure on the sides of my head. When I subsequently flew in the US using foggles I found them much more comfortable.

You get some peripheral vision with a hood too, at least you did with the pretty standard looking hood that I used. The best way to avoid this problem completely is to be sure to do some at least some of your training in real IMC. I found it a very different experience from flying under a hood and I'm glad I did it for the first time during lessons rather than solo. I found that it was most valuable when doing partial panel unusual attitude recovery, rather than for approaches where the sensations didn't seem so different.

[AerBabe]

I've not started IMC yet, but did a lot more than the standard instrument training for PPL. I used foggles for a fair bit of the training and didn't get on with them at all. They dug into the side of my head, giving me a headache and making me feel unwell. Plus, as has been said, it is possible to see the ground with peripheral vision. I ended up sitting at an odd angle to prevent this, which was a pain in the neck (pun intended).

[Megaton]

Neither. Jeppesson produce a really nice pair of opaque glasses with elasticated strap. They're very comfortable and work better than Foggles. Besides, you can't help but look a nob wearing the Hood!

[Aussie Andy]

Sounds like I need to get to a shop and try some on..!

Is this them Ham?
http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/images/products/js404311-tn.jpg
Andy

[FlyingForFun]

Andy,

Was just about to suggest you get down to the shop and try some on - but you beat me to it!

Personally, I've only ever used foggles. I find it's easy to "cheat" if I want to, but with a bit of practice I can block out what's going on outside. So much so that even without foggles I don't notice what's going on outside! (Was in IMC once, no foggles, when instructor pointed out that it was raining - I was so busy flying I hadn't noticed.) I'm a bit worried that after I finish training, I'll need to actually pay attention to what's going on outside, because you need to be aware when leaving IMC and start your lookout again. My instructor tells me that screens are the best, but the paperwork involved in getting them approved is a nightmare.

Out of interest, does your instructor/school not provide you with foggles/hood?

FFF
-------------

[Aussie Andy]

My (soon to be) instructor was telling me last night that he found screens best when he was a student but as an instructor he much prefers not having screens as his lookout is better / safer!

Thanks for all the input everyone: so far I am leaning towards the Jepp Shades I think... pricey though at €30 + p&p...

Andy

[Megaton]

That's them, Andy. They are significantly more comfortable than foggles and, if you're spending a lot of time wearing them, comfort is paramount. Worth the money, believe me.

[phnuff]

I have tried both - I found the foggles my instructor supplied , caused me problems with my glasses which meant I had to keep moving my head to scan as opposed to just moving my eyes. In addition, I found them uncomfortable when used with specs. When for last years IMC renewal I switched to a hood (which came from Pooleys by mail order and looked a whole lot better than the one your link shows), I found I could see the instruments properly with no discomfort. My flying improved overnight.

I get the feeling its a case of which ever suits the individual best.

[Aussie Andy]

Righto then: I think the important thing about decisions is to make them! So, taking Ham Phisted's advice I have just ordered the Jepp Shades! Look out for them sometime soon cheap on Ebay if I don't get on well with them ;)

Thanks all - PPRUNE does it again!

Andy

[Brooklands]

I've used screens, hoods, and foggles. Screens are the best, but not all aircraft have them, and in summer because they're painted black, it can get quite hot behind them

I've used several types of hood (but none like the one in Andy's link). The first one I used had such a restricted field of view that you couldn't see the panel and radios without moving your head, after an hour and a half flying in quite turbulent conditions I was feeling very nauseous. The other hoods were a lot better, but you had to put them on before you put your headset on, and they tended to get in the way of the headset.

The problem I have with foggles is that, because I wear glasses, the foggles sit further down my nose, and so when I look through them the top of the panel is obscured unless I tip my head back. I solved this in the end by making a custom set of foggles from a pair of safety specs. I also wear a basball hat with a long peak which helps to block the outside view as well.

I've found that you can often see out through corner where the panel & coming meet the windscreen, so I tend to stuff my checklist there to block it.

If you have the option, try flying with different hoods or foggles and see what suits you best.

I agree that flying in real IMC is best option, but if your home base doesn't have an instrument approach (EGTB doesn't) then quite often when the weather is right for real IMC flying you won't be able to get back home. I once had to cancel my IMC renewal because although the weather was above minima at Luton, there was no way we could get back into Wycombe.

Brooklands

[Aussie Andy]

From what everyone has said, and the (very) little instrument flying I did during the PPL, I agree that it makes best sense to train in the real stuff whenever possible! Given that we are in the UK, this should be possible from time to time!

G'day Brooklands: In addition to BAFC, I am also these days a member of RAF Benson flying club and I am taking the opportunity to start IMC training there. One of the benefits is indeed that they have their own ILS and other approaches.

Anyway, I am looking forward to starting the training!

Thanks again everyone,


Andy

[Tinstaafl]

I like the Jiffy Hood and have one of my own.

I've used - as a student and as an instructor - foggles, Jiffy Hood (uses an elasticated band) and other hood designs that use some variant of a solid headband.

Foggles I find annoying with glasses and can't be as easily removed when wearing a headset.

Solid headband hoods are awkward with headsets

The Jiffy Hood with its elastic headband fits easily over a headseat &/or glasses and can be removed or donned very quickly & easily.

[QNH 1013]

foggles types and screens.

It never occured to me to buy my own foggles during my PPL or IMC training. There was always a pair in the training aircraft. However, some did used to be a bit scatched and since I wear glasses it might have been better to buy my own. It just never occured to me or anyone else I met while training.

Screens are much better in my opinion. They certainly aren't all black. In fact they have been made of white translucent plastic in all the aircraft I have used for IR training and renewals. I can't understand the instructor lookout problem, because they are all angled to be edge-on to the instructor's field of view.

Screens are not that difficult to make. I have flown in a C177RG with a home made set of plywood (painted white) screens which worked well, and I know of others who have used cardboard screens for IFR practice.

[rustle]

I concur with QNH 1013

Screens are far superior to anything "face-mounted" ;)

Especially during partial-panel when you need to see the compass - far more "realistic", too.

Just because you're in cloud doesn't make your face suddenly hurt normally and nor does cloud make your headset a bad fit :hmm: ;)

[Ian_Wannabe]

hey, from my little experience of basic instrument flying that you do in your PPL I used both, and found that the hood was VERY painfull on the 'ole temples - 'n that's really offputting when you're trying to concentrate...

Ian

[phnuff]

More and more clear that with the foggles/hood debate, there is no one size fits all solution.

Thinking back a few years, I can only once remember flying with screens fitted, in fact on my first ever attempt at instrument flight on my PPL. At the time I had nothing to compare it with, but in hindsight and wearing my rose coloured foggles, I have to admit, it was the most comfortable.


Just wearing my hood now (IFRH-2), I really cannot say there is any discomfort, although I cannot see the screen !!

[Circuit Basher]

Most of my flying during IMC training was in rela IMC. I have, however spent some time flying with Foggles (uncomfortable & I don't wear glasses - easy to 'cheat' and you get a peripheral sense of where the horizon is) and a hood (bit like a ducks bill and obscured useful things like compass, etc - in the early stages, kept banging it on things!).

When doing IFR approaches and below cloud, instructor just used to open his chart out and put it in front of my bit of the screen - that was very effective. At DH, he'd then either take it away or leave it there, depending what he wanted me to do!

[Flying Tooth Driller]

I use a hood from Sporty's called the Super Hood. It looks a bit odd, but I found it comfortable, and it blocked the view well. Easily removed when you need to. Worked well with spectacles and the headset, because it doesn't get in their way at all. Foggles difficult if you wear specs.

Screens are the best!

Still, look at Sporty's hood on this page:

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?st=0&st2=0&st3=0&CATID=96&Product_ID=1448&DID=19

[Cusco]

One day into my FAA/IR course at NAC last year I had such a headache from the Foggles I was wearing (I wear specs too), although it could have been the concentration in some of the worst IMC Florida had seen for a long time.

However I nipped across the street to the Pilots shop at Naples and bought an asa jiffy-type hood.

It has elastic straps, therefore fits over the headset but will still swing up out of the way for the landing.

And no, there wasn't any peripheral vision to cheat with, unless of course I looked up to align the DI with the compass.


Never looked back, passed the FAA/IR and binned the foggles.

Strange really as I'd used the foggles for years for IMC revalidation.

Safe flying

Cusco.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Cusco,

<<Never looked back, passed the FAA/IR and binned the foggles.

Strange really as I'd used the foggles for years for IMC revalidation.>>

So, do you always manage your 6 approaches in 6 months in IMC?

Trouble is, IMC in Naples is often associated with TCU, TS, etc. - especially in the afternoons. Still you can always stay current over here.

[Keef]

Identical experience to Cusco, except that I dumped the foggles sooner. I too wear glasses, and I too did the FAA IR using the hood.

The hood needs to be the right size to fit you: if it's too tight then it will cause headaches. If it's too loose, it will drop off.

Foggles give too much peripheral vision for my liking - it's not "real" instrument flying.

Screens or "two stage amber" are clever, but not many training aircraft are fitted with them.

Flying Tooth Driller

The six in six months don't need to be in IMC - under the hood, with a safety pilot, is fine. That's what I do.

[Cusco]

Winged Dentist:

The 6 FAA /IR approaches, just like IMC reval, don't have to be in IMC, though I try and make as many as possible in IMC.( helps to have a PPL son)

However it's often difficult taking off in marginal wx from a farm strip to go to the nearest airport with full ILS to do the approaches as there is often the worry that I won't get back to the strip.

I'm fortunate in having a friend (and PPRUNEr) who is able and willing to fly with me either to complete the 6 in 6 months or if I were to go over the 6 months he can give me a FAA check ride as he is an FAA examiner as well.

(name of ppruner on receipt of PM)

I only fly for fun, not for business so reval is always an issue, but I'm determined to keep FAA/IR up whatever the cost against the day I have my own N reg and can travel the length and breadth of Europe (roll on retirement)

At present however keeping valid is not a problem and the p*ssy IMC reval is a breeze.

(flame proof babygro on )

Safe flying

Cusco.

Edited for typo

[michael penny]

Hi Guys, Iv"e got in to this one abit late, for me it has to be the Jepp shades very comfortable, but there again I don"t have specticals to deal with. I have heard from pilots who do, and they tend to favour the hood. Iv"e been beaten to all the good advice like "try before you buy" Best of luck.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Cusco and Keef,

I know the 6 approaches can be made with a safety pilot in VFR conditions "under the hood" - I also hold an FAA/IR.

I was responding to Cusco's comment that he binned the foggles after he got the IR. I was trying to make the point that he still needed them (or a hood) for the above reason - sorry I did not make myself clear.......