What if Oxford Goes Bust Mid Course??

[Hobo]

Am considering taking the plunge sometime late this year or early next. Before I commit to the selection process and a big loan, does anybody know what arrangements are in place if OATS should go into liquidation midway through my course? What are the terms of the agreement? I assume I have to commit to the stage payments etc etc but what do they commit to and are they insured to have enough money to continue the courses of those already there if they do go bust?

[Jonty]

You have no gurantees, just dont pay all your money up front and try to pay for it "little but often"

I was at SECOAT when that went bust, I lost a small amount of money but others lost 25K+. If your very conserned its worth looking up their accounts at companys house in london.

At the end of the day there are risks in paying up front for anything, so dont!!!!

[FlyingForFun]

If you must pay up-front, try to pay by credit card. Your credit card company should then be able to recover some of your money if the company does go bust. This applies for any large outlay of money, not just flying training.

FFF
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[Desk-pilot]

I too am concerned at the fact that with the APP scheme OATS have basically lifted £61500 out of your wallet when you're only six months into the course due to their seemingly non-negotiable instalments.

I have asked for a monthly payments scheme but to no avail - as far as I'm aware they're the only school I have come across who are so inflexible towards payment and in these troubled times that is a major worry for anyone tempted to go there.

Maybe if enough of us contemplating starting a course there were to refuse to pay on their terms they'd have to accomodate a safer means of payment - strength in numbers and all that! What we're asking is entirely reasonable after all in light of the number of schools which have gone to the wall.

Great school, but damned inflexible!

Desk-pilot

[Mister Geezer]

Oxford have no sponsored cadets there now and they are solely relying on self sponsored trade. This has to be a first for Oxford and hopefully they can sustain enough business. Their large contract with Khalifa Airways has come to an end but since the Algerian airline has gone bankrupt then Oxford might not ever recover the cost of training (I dont think they were making money off it anyway) their cadets so they probably made a loss their but possibly a large one... who knows. I was speaking to a Jerez instructor a few days ago and he did not paint a rosy picture since he said that there might be staff cutbacks in Jerez but that was crystal ball gazing really. He said that BAE Systems will not get their money from Khalifa for the cadets that went to Jerez. Oxford might have the Algerian Air Force contract going but I heard that visa problems was affecting that sector of Oxford's business. Just do your background research before you go.

[witchdoctor]

Pay OAT by credit card if you wish, but I think they charge about 3% interest on such payments. That's almost £2K extra on your costs to insure against losing it if (big if I think) OAT went bust mid-course.

OAT have been going bust for years (allegedly) if you search for it on these forums, but somehow they still seem to be in business and pulling in the punters, albeit a lot less than there was. Must just be a series of amazing escapes.

If you really want the answer to your question, write to OAT and press them for a written response.

As far as ganging up on them to force a change of heart, good luck. My course couldn't even persuade them to purchase videos made this side of the Black Death despite having stumped up £1million between us. (Remember my assault on the suggestion box guys? Funny how it disappeared after that eh?)

[Martin Kellett]

The proper way to do it is with a client account. That way, they would be looking after the money on your behalf, and can draw down on it to meet your training costs as you go. The money remains yours though and is refundable if they go bust.

Of course they might be tempted to dip into the account, but then this theft and the directors become personally liable.

This way, they know the money is available to meet the training costs, and you are protected, so everyone is happy. Client accounts are used by all reputable businesses.

If they won't operate a client account for you, then it shows that they need to borrow the money from you to meet their current liabilities, and are hoping that they'll have enough future work to pay your bills as you go through training. In this case, don't touch them with a bargepole.

[Send Clowns]

Some schools only take money for the section of the groundschool you are about to sit or for the flying you have already flown. That keeps money secure (note I lost some when SFT went, so have learnt!). Point this out to OATS. If they do not offer you security without the cost of a card transaction (and 3% sounds excessive, I'm not sure we charge anything) then go elsewhere. They are not the only choice out there.

You should also clarify what happens if you have not finished your course. I assume from the price you are thinking of going integrated (might I ask why? No-one has ever been able to tell me an advantage to a self-sponsored student of an integrated course to offset the cost and lack of hours on graduation). One student has posted here after not being allowed to finish an integrated course, having failed a section, and was not sure of the status of his training, whether he could complete elsewhere or if he had to qualify for modular training. He never reposted any conclusion to the story, so I do not know what the answer was.

[foghorn]

I'd be very very surprised if OATS went bust with the assets of its parent company BBA Aviation plc behind it, unless said parent company went bust, which is unlikely IMHO.

There might be an orderly retreat from commercial training, though, but I'd expect that in that scenario refunds would take place, or students would be allowed to finish their courses.

That's not to say that some smaller schools without strong backers might not go bust though - demonstrably over the last few years they can and have.

cheers!
foggy.

[Send Clowns]

It is perfectly feasible for a limited company to go bust while a parent company is healthy (or to be sold then go bust - SFT had been owned by some very big backers a few years ago). It has happened on many occasions in other industries, though I would say not as far as I know in aviation training. I would also add that Oxfords assets are rumoured to include the airport and have very high value, in which case liquidation is likely to be orderly and lead to creditors being paid.

Do you have any reason to say BBA will not go bust? I have no idea how sound the company is, though I know it is large. It is smaller than Enron.

I think OATS going bust is extremely unlikely, but that does not mean people should not take great care of quantities of money most could not possibly replace, and ask questions. OATS should be willing to answer them, in the same way my bosses do when the same questions are asked of us. All schools are asked these questions. If they are of no help, then be wary.

[foghorn]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Erm, like you I also said I thought that BBA was unlikely to go bust. I never said that it 'will not go bust'.

It's not unheard of big companies going bust, but as a general rule the bigger a company is, the less likely it is to go under. Even more so listed companies due to the level of reporting necessary to obtain listed status, and the beneficial effect that significant and diverse non-director shareholdings have on companies.

[BlueRobin]

If anything, OAT has been fed a diet of corporate cash. They should at least think about making their fees more palatable to the private pocket.

They bought our software last year so can't be that hard up :D

And they're up to date with their accounts and returns, according to companies house records.