State of play at MyTravel/Kestrel

[bagpuss lives]

We in ATC are hearing all kinds of supposedly highly reliable rumours involving MyTravel ceasing to fly from 0001hrs this Sunday.

It's surely nonsensical speculation but it must be founded in fact somewhere and by someone?

Does anyone know quite what is going on so we can put these scurrilous and worrying (at least for all concerned parties at EGCC) rumours to bed? :)

Thanks ;)

[Miss Cargo]

Let's hope not, it will not be good news at all. Not for anyone.

[Frosty Hoar]

Are these rumours MYT sourced or from elsewhere...?

[mindstorm]

Gives me a sunday off then

malicious gossip methinks!!:}

[sluggums]

Sounds like horses**t to me

[touch&go]

There's a bit about MYT on the Daily Telegraph's internet site today.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2003/03/29/cntrav29.xml&sSheet=/money/2003/03/29/ixfrontcity.html

[stormin norman]

If you believe the Tory graph you'll believe anything.

[Filtonman]

We all need to get the other side of this Gulf war without any of the big boys going out of business.Lets just hope this is inaccurate.

[vertex]

MyTravel battles for survival
=============================
we could do without reports like this, particulally in such uncertain times !!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,925085,00.html
============================================================
CAA steps up surveillance of troubled tour operator's finances

Andrew Clark, transport correspondent
Saturday March 29, 2003
The Guardian

Troubled tour operator MyTravel is facing a fresh battle for survival, with growing concern from regulators about its ability to fulfil financial fitness requirements to fly passengers to far-flung destinations.
The civil aviation authority has stepped up surveillance of the company to ensure MyTravel is compliant with the terms of its Atol tour operator's licence, which imposes strict cash criteria to protect tourists from any sudden failure.
It is understood that regulators are becoming increasingly worried about the strength of MyTravel's accounts. The company warned at its annual meeting last week that the war in the Gulf had caused its already weak bookings to deteriorate.
In September, MyTravel renewed a £400m statutory bond lodged to cover the cost of repatriating customers if it unexpectedly ceases trading. However, in addition to the bond MyTravel is required to provide evidence on demand to show that it remains financially stable.
Under Atol rules, the civil aviation authority has the right to "revoke or suspend a licence in mid-term" - a move that would ground the company's fleet of aircraft. Tour operators are given written notice of such a decision, to allow them to make last-minute representations.
City sources confirmed that the CAA had held recent talks with MyTravel. A company insider insisted that contact had been "constructive".
MyTravel's shares slumped 10% to 9.25p yesterday as rumours swept the City of new problems.
The closing price valued the business, which takes more than 12m people a year on holiday, at just £47m.
MyTravel's founder, David Crossland, stepped down as chairman this month, having delayed his retirement last year to try to rescue the ailing company, which has brands including Panorama, Cresta and Going Places.
Formerly known as Airtours, the company ran into trouble under its former chief executive Tim Byrne.
It struggled to recover from a slump in bookings following September 11, 2001 and faced a further crisis of confidence after the emergence of problems with the way it accounted for holiday insurance.
The group's new chief executive, Peter McHugh, revealed last week that summer bookings were running 3% below last year's levels, while bookings for winter 2003 were down 4%.
In November, MyTravel agreed a £250m refinancing with its lenders, giving it credit facilities until the end of the year. Talks are under way with banks to put its debt on a longer term basis.
Among the CAA's criteria for tour operators is a requirement that "free assets" - including buildings and aircraft - are equivalent to a certain proportion of turnover. The CAA can demand monthly and quarterly updates on the state of a company's balance sheet.
An industry source said: "They have the right to ask for information at any time and they can ask for pretty much any information that they want."
The CAA said it never discussed its dealings with Atol holders. MyTravel insisted it was "fully bonded" under CAA regulations.
MyTravel recently risked inflaming criticism of "rewards for failure" in the City by agreeing a £1.2m payoff for Mr Byrne, who left in October after losing the confidence of fellow directors.
Former finance director David Jardine, who left a month later, received £840,000 in compensation.

[Fly747]

Read the papers today and you've got to say it doesn't look good. I wouldn't book a holiday with them, would you? Good luck guys.

[Freeway]

Totally unsurprised by this news. What a real shame for everyone involved at MYT, they have been well and truely shafted by management.
Good luck to everyone at MYT.

[Dozza2k]

then there's me with a holiday booked with My Travel in July. lets hope for everyone concerned it is just speculation.......

[BusBoy]

Fly747 and Dozza2K

why wouldn't you book a holiday with any of the MYT companies? They're all ABTA / ATOL bonded as much as any other company is. Your holiday money is as secure as with any other holiday company.

It's stupid, ignorant comments such as yours and media hatchets who are kicking MYT everytime they begin to get up from the bloody awful situation last year.

Have a nice Day!

[stormin norman]

'MyTravel renewed a £400m statutory bond lodged to cover the cost of repatriating customers if it unexpectedly ceases'

£400m Bond ! how do they expect to bring the Pax home
Private Jet!

Somebody somewhere is talking B...............x

[FCNK]

being an ex employee! I wouldn't choose any other tour operator for my holidays. I sincerely hope that they pull through, Good luck guys

[Kestrel_909]

Yes I hope they pull through too!
Not just for the sake of my friend who moved to Alicante in Dec and but hates it and is now waiting on a stand by ticket in Alicante for a flight back to Belfast, the next one on Tuesday night. Also for another friend who is an F/A for them out fo BFS who loves her job and for all the other employees and the aviation industry.

As Daniel Beddingfield sang, "Gotta get through this!"

[Jack The Lad]

Unfortunate media coverage here. Given an already 'jiterry market' concerning MYT, extra adverse publicity by the media can only damage an already vunerable share price! Case of a 'self-fullfilling prophesy!', which the airline needs like a hole in the head right now.

Friday's are always a classic day for an airline to go to the wall, if its going to happen, normally driven by the banks, before the executioners go off for their weekends! Also, if it was 'Belgrano induced', my guess is that it would have happened before lunchtime on Friday. Ever tried contacting anyone at the Belgrano after lunch on a Friday?? The phones just ring or go into auto-answer mode. They have long gone for their comfortable weekend retreat! Also, the guys that come and seize aircraft are also on sabatical!

I hope the media coverage is none other than the usual b*sh!T designed to create more confusion and discomfort in an already troubled market! Does it really sell more papers? Shame on the lot of them! Of course, I could be proved wrong here :*

[kinsman]

Just landed back at LGW pleased to say we are still here!

Just read the press reports looks to me when you get past the headlines that nothing has changed! Sounds like one of our competitors has slipped the papers a story to add a bit more pressure to our situation. These are the same stories that were doing the rounds a few months ago and we are still here.

Stormin Norman - the £400 million would be used to charter aircraft from other airlines. Should not be a problem as there are a lot of aeroplanes being parked at the moment that need some work. However, I still hope MYT will continue for some time yet, after all our aircraft are all flying and full at the moment!

Having been down this road before I hope no one goes bust it will not be good for anyone in the industry or the public.

[bagpuss lives]

Good to hear you're still about :)

Damn these rest-room rumours :D

[calmdown]

Well .........I didnt get my liein afterall!

[kinsman]

I am getting very right wing as I get older I am sad to say! Along with Mr Bush, Mr Blair and most reporters, I would like to put all those small-minded folk who spread such damaging rumours up against a wall and shoot them. Oh! I left out all those little P***** who write computer viruses.

Feel better now off to work I am pleased to report!
:D :D :D :D

[Big Tudor]

kinsman

I must be getting more right wing also. That's another one of your posts that I agree with. ;)
I find it somewhat ironic that MYT (a wholly British company) gets slated in the good old British press for poor financial results. Why is it that the same negative press is not directed towards our German owned competitors, World of Hueey (sorry TUI) and Thomas Cook (C&N) when they post pretty poor financials?
Well here's something for the sh1te hounds of the British press to dwell on. MYT is a bl@@dy good company to work for. Some of the best people in the industry (flight & ground) rely on this organisation for a living and they are proud to do so. One wonders how proud the hacks of the press are of their own company. I would personally rather rinse my mouth out with dog poo than admit to working for some of the UK newspapers.

[touch&go]

Must abmit the British press seem to love printing bad news, but would good news sell papers?

I love the way they build people up and destroy them (not), Phill Collins comes to mind.

[pudd]

Big tudor and Kinsman,
Well said! It has been very frustrating watching the press rip flesh from our bones. The whole world travel industry is in trouble, not just MYT! Certain papers have lost my custom, that's for sure!! PUDD

[Flickroll]

I tried to book a holiday at short notice last week with MYT, not one seat available out of MAN over the weekend to any short haul destination. Within ten minutes I'd got seats on a TUI flight that departed with eight empty, and was given a choice of destinations!

That doesn't sound like a company about to stop flying to me.

[kinsman]

Well the share price has not taken the fall I expected so maybe the city was not impressed with the reports either!

I can’t see we are doing any worse than many of our competitors and a few contacts have told me we are doing better than most at the moment! We are flying all our aircraft and as far as I can tell we are filling them, which is more than some of the others can say at the moment!

;)

[Mishandled]

Might I point out that when I was in Scheduling in LGW a few years back, rumours went about every year that some airline or another was going to cease flying on the Sunday morning when the clocks changed. The reason was that the airlines scheduling department had not input slot requests for new time change and there was nothing to worry about at all. Not that this means that all MYTs troubles dont exist but this sort of speculation always fans the flames. Good luck to all at MYT, and keep booking your hols with them. I'd still back them over some cheapo tour operator any day.

[sluggums]

From what I've heard, our aircraft are pretty well flat out with various contracts (not just the trooping) and with our core business requirements.

Just remember newspapers are only good for fish & chips and for wiping your ar*e on!!!

[kinsman]

Life is very busy and has been all Winter!

[jmc_757-200]

Hi,
I really hope they don't go under, my Cousin is a Cabin Crew for them on long haul flights.

Thanks

Thomas_Cook_757-200

[BAe 146-100]

Hello,

Do you think that they will repaint the DC-10's? They would look great!:p

Regards

[fireflybob]

Having once worked for a company which ceased trading (at a time when there were very few jobs going in the airline industry), I sincerely hope that MYT will not founder.

However, as has been said on this forum before, it is the yield which counts rather than the load factor.

Advice for the modern jobs market?

1. "Mentally" quit your job.

2. Whilst in your current job do it as professionally etc. as you can - reason? Reputation/Track Record.

3. Whilst you are in your current job, look for the next one - reason? Better to make a move when YOU decide rather than have it forced on you by "downsizing", etc.

Hope it all works out for everyone out there.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Obviously we all hope MYT keeps going, but if it does not then all does not appear to be lost. I have it on good authority that easyJet are banking on recruiting large numbers of pilots from the 'fallen' MYT in order to keep their expansion plans afloat. This will become particularly critical at the end of the Summer when the Airbuses start to arrive. I believe they will arrive in excess of 10 per month at the peak (perhaps an 'orange' representative could give the exact figures), and that will be an absolute nightmare for their trainers. What better solution than to take loads of someone else's trained and current pilots at no cost to yourself?

Incidentally, I also hear that bmi baby are about to employ a shed-load of ex-Maersk 737 pilots to rescue them from their type-rated and experienced pilot shortage.

Whatever happens, my very best wishes to all pilots, cabin crew and engineers at MYT. I hope it does not come down to it, but if things go pear-shaped then it looks like there are plenty people out there who will want to hear from you.

[Horatio]

Norman

You are doing as much damage as any journo here. MYT has not 'fallen' yet, as you put it, and hopefully will not do so. If things get that bad, watch your Number Six too, because they may not be the only casualty either!

If Easy's solution to their crew planning depends on the demise of MYT, god help them if MYT survive; that makes me think that your 'good authority' is highly suspect! Do you really believe that any airline would build it's plans on the possible demise of another airline? Easy cannot afford to have aircraft sitting on the tarmac without pilots, hoping that another goes 'tits up'? Sometimes pilots have too much idle time to think and pontificate, me thinks!

[In trim]

Norman,

Your figures are totally wrong. 10 buses per month....I don't think so! 20 next year, and the busiest month will see 3 deliveries.

Of course eJ are actively recruiting, and should any experienced pilots apply then that would no doubt help eJ. However, your attitude to MYT's current problems does not help a struggling industry!

[jet_breeze]

Had a quick look at Manchester today and MYT is running as normal so far i'll check it out next monday.

[kinsman]

I think several airlines are banking on us going, one charter airline has been telling our guys at interview that they are waiting for us to fail at the end of March. Well here we are in April! I would say last weekends report was a poor attempt by one of our competitors to put the pressure on with the banks at this weeks meeting.

I don't know how this will all end but one thing is for sure this war may indeed see off several UK airlines. I hope that is not the case but all this speculation in the press harms the whole industry not just MYT. The press can finish a company with speculation, they have a lot of power! Power with little responsibility! I am all for freedom of the press but I would rather they stuck to facts not rumour and their own limited perspective.
But then that would not sell papers I guess.

[kishna]

I think speculating that it was "the press" that started the "rumour" is just as bad as the story itself. Where it came from I know not. The Company is not in very good shape, we all know that for certain. Yes the aircraft are all nearly full, but how much have our "customers" (sic) paid for these seats. The number of bums on seats does not guarantee that the airline is making a profit.

I'm sure nobody want to see the Company go under, but these are bl*@dy difficult times for everybody - lets not forget it.

k

[kinsman]

Kishna

Yes difficult times for sure but if you look at the AGM report revenue from sales are up. From that I hope we can assume that we are making some money.

Nearly all of our operations made money last year, the loss came from piss poor accounting/management over several years and a very poor performance from the main PLC.

Let us not forget TC/JMC made a loss of over £180 million last year! We are not the only ones with problems! I am not playing down the situation but all this negative talk helps no one in the industry or the country as a whole. Our economic welfare hinges on public confidence and perceptions which at the moment are being damaged by very gloomy predictions from the media. Most of these predictions are from so called expert reporters and industry analysts who at best are making an educated guess.

I would just like to see some balanced factual reporting rather than the speculation and misinformation that seems to fill the media most of the time.

Question from ITV acnchor this morning with regard to the rescued 18 year old american soldier. Having been told the lady had two broken legs, a broken arm and gun shot wounds! "can you tell us if her injuries are serious"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:=

[beardy]

'Let us not forget TC/JMC made a loss of over £180 million last year!'


'I would just like to see some balanced factual reporting rather than the speculation and misinformation'



I too would like to see the latter. So why say the speculative and misinformed former?

[A4]

So what was the bottom line for Thomas Cooks parent company last year then?

Further what's the score with Pressag (sp?)

Tough times abound but lets compare like with like. MyTravel is a global group which made a loss of £73million on a turnover of around £5billion (its first EVER loss). The reasons are many but, primarily, poor senior management and questionalble accounting procedures (which will be a +ve on the bottom line this year).

Can anyone come up with the (F)ACTUAL corresponding figures for C&N and Pressag ?

Answers please.

A4

[kinsman]

To be fair beardy is right I was reporting rumour myself!

I think the UK operation made money the Germans lost money. My point was beardy they keep hitting us and never mention other operators who are also having a bad time!

[tailscrape]

Share price:

It is unlikely that the market makers will hammer shares at the 10p level on rumours. They will look for facts, as to get short of stock on a rumour at such low levels is potentially catastrophic. The losses could be almost as big as MT's if the company pull the situation round.

Also, there is no benefit profit wise to City traders of being short of stock if a company fails. It causes immenses settlement problems.


As for the airline being profitable, I don't really think that is the issue here. MT is a massive company, the airline a small cog in a big wheel...... If tour ops have major probs, then the airline has major probs. A la jmc.......in 2001/2002.

Good luck gang.

[kinsman]

Wise words tailscrape!

[Big Tudor]

beardy

C & N reported a loss of 180 million. MYT reported a loss of 72 million. That is factual reporting. I don't have the Preussag figures to hand but they were significantly down on last year, although still in profit.

"Easy Jet are waiting for MYT to go bust so they can take the pilots".
"JMC aren't recruiting any Boeing guys at the minute because they will get all the MYT guys when they go bust."
"MYT are stopping flying at midnight Sunday."

That is speculation and misinformation. Amazing how the source of these rumours can never be found when they are proved wrong. As kinsman says, why all the negative remarks towards MYT when there are plenty of others in the same or worse situation? I get the feeling there are a lot of people, both inside and outside aviation, who are just waiting for a carrier to go under. Then they can sit with smug, self-sastisfied looks on their faces and say "I told you they were going bust".

[rupetime]

Any possible problem with a vertically integrated group such as MYT have to be looked at as a group issue, one or more parts of the group could be making good profits while the third part bleeds it dry or one part makes money while the other two bleed it dry. The airline might well be flying a lot but at what price, how much has the tour operator lost on the holiday and how much has retail lost selling it, all comes back to one bottom line.

What ever the depth of their problem and the condition of the company PPRune wont be the first or most reliable place to discover whats going on

rt

[jmc_757-200]

Hi,
Why would MYT take delivery of an A320 and A321 just recently if they thought they would suspend ops. I really doubt they will anyway but this just didn't make sence, maybe someone can clear it up?

Thanks

jmc_757-200

[Letsparty24/7]

The Airbus deliverys are not the first. Watch out for more this year.

[El Grifo]

As a Freelance Photog based in the Canaries, who counts MYT as his biggest client, I have been watching a gradual trimming down of the Admin and Brochure Production staff at Rochdale.
My last shoot for them was in Thailand late December.

I too have been a tad concerned.

Until today that is.

I got a call from the Head of Department saying, the restructure had taken place and was I available for a "Branding Shoot" within the next week or so.

t'would be silly spending money on snaps, if your company is headin down the poop shute I reckon.

Long Live MYT :cool: :D :cool:

[woderick]

JMC_757_200
I think that if you check tomorrow (3rd) you will find that it's 3 A320s and one A321. There are more to come before SS2003.
Another A320 being delivered as I type this !

[bagpuss lives]

Well I'm glad we've put tnis rumour to bed - the intention of the thread - not to spread any sort of damaging bad blood at all :)

[mindstorm]

But which UK charter airlines are leaving aircraft idle in Apr & May - not MYT.

[Jonty]

Just on the news, MYT to shed 2000 staff out of a work force of 23,000. Hope thats all.

[Cahlibahn]

LONDON (Reuters) - Holiday firm MyTravel Group will cut a further 1,300 jobs worldwide over two years as part of its plans to bounce back from profit warnings and accounting errors, an industry source has told Reuters.

The job cuts could include further losses in the UK, the source said. MyTravel, which employs around 23,000 people worldwide, said in February it was axing 700 jobs in the UK.

[Alberts Growbag]

Thursday April 3, 10:09 AM

MyTravel Group PLC
MT.L 11.01 +0.30



MyTravel to cut further 1,300 jobs
By Mark Potter



LONDON (Reuters) - Holiday firm MyTravel Group plans to cut a further 1,300 jobs worldwide over the next two years as it battles to recover from profit warnings and accounting errors, an industry source has told Reuters.


The source denied the job cuts were a knee-jerk response to the war in Iraq, which has hit bookings for holiday firms across the world, but did say the conflict had "accelerated things."


The lay-offs could include further losses in the UK, the source said. MyTravel (LSE: MT.L - news) , which employs about 23,000 people worldwide, said in February it was axing 700 jobs in the UK.


The source said the job cuts were part of a strategic review the group's new management presented to its lenders on Wednesday as the owner of the Bridge and Panorama brands seeks to secure its long-term financial future.


MyTravel , whose shares have plunged over 95 percent in the past year, won an extension in November to a key 250 million pound revolving credit facility until to the end of this year, while it worked on a long-term recovery plan.


Formerly called Airtours, MyTravel said last month that summer bookings were three percent ahead of last year, following an eight percent reduction in capacity, but that business had deteriorated as war approached.


All tour operators have suffered from the global economic downturn and a drop in tourism following the September 2001 attacks on the United States.


But MyTravel has fared worse than most because it had previously ramped up capacity in a bid to capture market share. This left it committed to high fixed costs and having to cut prices on unsold holidays when the market turned down.


MyTravel, which has changed its chairman, chief executive and finance director in recent months, embarked on a new strategy in November aimed at reducing fixed costs, such as planes, cruise ships and hotels.


The source said the strategy had gone down well with lenders, but did not expect a long-term financing agreement to be signed in the near future.


"There's no immediate rush... Our lenders remain supportive and we will continue to have ongoing dialogue with them," the source said.


MyTravel had not yet put a figure on the precise amount of cost-savings it hoped to achieve from its strategic review, the source said.


The source also reaffirmed the group had no plans for major retail store closures.


At 0955 GMT, MyTravel shares were 2.8 percent higher at 11p, valuing the business at around 54 million pounds.

[SLT]

Dr White

Quite frankly sir your post is not helpful. :mad: Everyone else here is being very supportive and positive - why don't you try it???

If you don't like it - leave!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eejit.

[master slug]

Its all very well to say they are going under. this morning on the radio they say nobody's going on holidays. trouble is somebody forgot to tell the punters. MYT flights still go out every day there all full apart from the the odd seats that is. I should know i'm the poor sod that has to organize the delivery of baggage to a/c.

Trouble is to many people putting a downer on MYT.

And as for going under Why are they still recruiting ?.

[Devils Advocate]

W.r.t. 'flights still go out every day there all full'....

There's a big margin between going out full, but with a seat rate that yields ****** all profit - as opposed to going out less than full but with a seat rate that makes the company some money.

Now who else remembers AirEurope & ILG laying off their staff between the closing months of 1990 and the early months of 1991 ? ..... i.e. just before they turned their toes up in March 1991 !

[kinsman]

I believe MYT will survive, those who keep banging on about yield and how much folks are paying for seats may of course be right. But the company claims revenue per seat is up! Now I may be wrong but flying full aeroplanes making a little money is better than flying half full aeroplanes or worse still, not flying the aeroplanes at all.

According to the Times we will save around 50 million with the job cuts, some of those jobs went a few weeks ago. The 2000 jobs announced today include the 700 already announced. Out of interest according to the same report TUI needs to save over £250 million, I guess this will also be through job cuts. I assume Devils Advocate that means TUI are going bust as well, I doubt it! The Air Europe situation was very different to MYT.

The news and rumour over the weekend was it appears wrong! I would still guess the newspaper stories were seeded by one of our competitors in an attempt to undermine confidence in MYT prior to the meeting with the banks. I think that says a lot more about the mess some of our competitors are in than the problems at MYT.

But the bottom line is 2000 hard working employees will be out of work, what makes me angry is those responsible got nice big pay offs when they went!
:*

[gashcan]

Not withstanding the Global Recession, Gulf War 2, SARS and September 11th; the whole industry is in it up to their necks! Across the pond American have announced laying-off 2,500 pilots and large pay cuts for the remainder, United are acting along the same lines; Delta and Continental are not faring much better and Air Canada has just filed for protection!
European airlines are finding it tough too - Swissair, Sabena???
Back in the UK, BA are still struggling (and their 18% stake in Qantas is not seeing much return either) and even the profitable low cost boys are seeing some rationalisation in the acquisitions they are making.
In our tiny, cozy little IT world, life is tough too. Only a few years back Air 2000 were paying for fuel in cash and more recently there were the rumours about problems at JMC and Britannia following the take-overs by their respective German parents, neither of which are not without fault or failure. Even at Monarch it has been reported that life is not as sweet as it may be!
Yes....MYT has struggled big. For sure there have been a couple of spectacular own goals - but I get the feeling that they just might have got enough opposite rudder and forward stick on in time to pull out of this one. Hope so anyway! Good luck guys!

[Holer Moler]

gASHCAN: v good post - I think you might be right lets hope so.

[Bus14]

''Only a few years back Air 2000 were paying for fuel in cash''

Must be quite a few years! It certainly hasn't been the case in the last 14 years to my knowledge, and the airline's only been going for 17. Still, this a rumour network I suppose.

[jmc_757-200]

Hi,
Well to state the obvious, its Saturday night and as far as I know MyTravel are still going.

Thanks

jmc_757-200

[Lou Scannon]

Gashcan has rather shot himself in the foot by not checking his facts. Air 2000 have never been on a cash basis (other than isolated special flights to strange places).

Not even when Airtours were trying to take them over and calling round to measure up the offices. (Very embarassing for them when the deal dropped through some four hours later!)

[kinsman]

Lou scannon

I don't recall Air 2000 paying cash for fuel either, but they were very, very close to the edge not that many years ago.

Your right Airtours were expecting to buy Air 2000 first time around. One reason of course was the invertation to do so by the Air 2000 board who then changed their mind at the last minute. It cost several members of the Air 2000 board thier jobs. Both MYT and Air 2000 were lucky neither bid succeeded, I for one think it would have been bad for both operations.

But don't run away with the idea anyone is out of the woods yet! MYT will in my opinion survive which then puts the pressure back on everyone else! As has been pointed out already these are hard times.

It turns out MYT could still make a bit of money out of the Air 2000 bid if they win thier case in the courts.

[gashcan]

My source for Air 2000 paying for fuel with cash was............
an Air 2000 Captain.
I apologise if he was incorrect - but you get the gist I'm sure!

[kinsman]

Gashcan

Don't know if your wrong about Air 2000, I just did not hear about it. Normally when a company starts paying cash for fuel it gets around fast! Either way that was then and they are still here I am pleased to say.

[Earthmover]

Agreed. Rumours like these are terribly damaging - and boy, do they travel fast. I remember some years ago, the Company I was working for had to pay cash for fuel for about 4 days at a major European Airport -because someone at head office messed up the payment schedule/details. Instantly, I was getting 'phone calls asking how secure I was and how long we were going to last. I was still working for them 15 years later.

MYT people must be damn frustrated with these rumours - I even heard someone on Radio 4 questioning a 'travel expert' on what compensation was in place if MYT went out of business. I hate this sort of thing because it's based solely on rumour, but directly affects the listening public's booking plans, and can risk fulfilling the prophecy all by itself.

[codpiece face]

Is it possible that this topic can now be put to bed, I am sick of misinformed people telling me that this company is to stop flying or to go bust.

It is clear from history that companies such as these can be talked into bankruptcy. The most common way is for the bankers to lose their nerve and pull the plug. It has been widely reported that the credit facilities have been extended to the end of the year. All this really leaves is for a company to be talked down so much that consumers decide to book with other companies in fear of loosing their holiday. We are in a position where a lot of the public have no idea which company is which, although this is changing with the internet and LCA and self tailored holidays.

This all smells like dirty tricks to me, and I am surprised that no one has the bottle to say it. It is fair to say that a lot of people think their jobs will be safer with one of the big four out the picture. I am sure this will not be the case, people had better be careful about what they wish for. As I started with, unless there is anything more to say that is constructive can we all leave it alone now and let the employees try to do their jobs without this big grey cloud hanging over them.:*

[Lou Scannon]

Perhaps we could conclude by remembering the words of Ernest Gann (or was it Ernest Hemmingway).

Ask not "For whom the bell tolls?"
For it tolls for us all.

Which pretty much sums up the airline business at the moment.

[beardy]

John Donne (1572 - 1631)


No man is an Island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were;
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

Meditation XVII

[gashcan]

Gann and Hemingway are quite contemporary, but Metaphysical Poetry from John Donne is fantastic!!

We're all in it together at the end of the day, and hopefully we'll still all be in it together in the morning..............if you see what I mean!

Nuff said!

[rupetime]

Perhaps Air2000 were operating into an airfield where they didnt have a fuel contract hence the need to take cash ?????

[kinsman]

Rupetime

Comes under the heading of old news! It does not matter now if they were in trouble and needed to pay cash for fuel.
The point is they were close to the edge and they are still here to tell the tale. MYT will survive, in my opinion we will be looking back a few years from now when some other company is in trouble telling much the same tales!

I also think this thread is getting worn, time to change the subject!



"Argue for your limitations and sure enough they are yours!"

Richard Bach

[Captain Max]

Quite right, there is nothing new here, no demise in sight! Time to wind up this thread.

Interstingly enough though, MYT cut back capacity heavily, well in advance of the current conflict. Now it seems all the major competitors, have excess holidays on their hands because they assumed MYT wouldn't be there.

I wonder who will have the better season now?

[rupetime]

It wasnt only MYT that cut back - everyone has - its the survivors that will pile it back on if any of the major's (or minor's) fail.


rt

[rumflier]

passengers booked on Airtours flights from BOH to Majorca this Easter are being re-directed to LGW now.
So looks like BOH gets screwed again with another carrier pulling out

[stevobeevo]

Airtours don't start flying to Majorca from BOH until 1st week in May. The MyTravel companies are using a 737-800 on the weekly sunday Palma flight and a 737-400 on the weekly saturday palma run.

For summer 2003 they've added 1X weekly to Crete, an extra weekly flight to Palma and increased flights to Las Palmas. The latter also running year long for the 1st time.

I don't know where you got your info Rumflier.

Palmair is the only operator who serve Palma year round from BOH and they certainly are not having any trouble selling seats this Spring. Nearly sold out for April!;)

[rumflier]

stevebeevo,
apologies if wrong, just aware that a number of passengers have been told by the airport and package holiday companies that the flights aren't going from BOH and that they must go from LGW instead.

[stevobeevo]

Apology accepted Rumflier.;)

Just to clear up the issue. The MyTravel group programme from BOH is as follows:

Tenerife - year round *
Gran Canaria - Year round
Malaga - May thru October *
Palma - twice weekly, May thru October
Crete - May thru October

* summer break of 5 weeks mid June till end July

[rumflier]

stevebeevo,
may not have been as wrong as first thought.
Airtours operated flights to Palma, Malaga and Crete are cancelled due to lack of demand. Libra taking over Crete capacity, Palmair still operating the other two routes.
So routes not lost but Airtours not operating them.

[SussexDon]

MYT has announced two new non-executive Directors, who would have hardly joined if My Travel was about to disappear. Plus one of them has anounced he has bought 100k of MY Travel shares.

MyTravel Group plc



The Board of MyTravel Group plc announces that Mr David Allvey and Mr Roger
Burnell will join the Board as non-executive directors with immediate effect. In
addition, Mr Allvey will assume the role of Chairman of the Audit Committee.



Mr Allvey was until December 2000 Group Finance Director of Barclays Bank PLC
and is currently a non-executive director of several companies and a member of
the UK Accounting Standards Board. He has both executive and non-executive
board level experience gained over many years in major international companies
in the UK, Europe and North America.



Mr Burnell has substantial experience of the vertically integrated tour
operating industry, spending 25 years with Thomson Travel Group rising to Acting
Chief Executive Officer in 1999.



Mr Eric Sanderson, Chairman of MyTravel Group plc, commented:



"I am delighted to welcome David Allvey and Roger Burnell to our Board. David's
strong accounting financial background and Roger's extensive travel industry
experience will complement the skills of our other non-executive directors. I am
sure that they will play a valuable role in helping us to restore the fortunes
of our Group."





For the purposes of Rules 16.3 to 16.5 of the Listing Rules, the Board of
MyTravel Group plc confirms that Roger Burnell has an interest in 110,785
ordinary shares of 10p each registered in the name of his wife.



Save as set out above, there are no matters relating to Mr Allvey or Mr Burnell
which fall for disclosure under paragraphs 6.F.2 (b) to (g) of the Listing
Rules.





ENDS





Enquiries:


MyTravel Group plc 0161 232 6501
Eric Sanderson


Brunswick 020 7404 5959
Fiona Antcliffe/Sophie Fitton





Notes to Editors:



David Allvey was formerly Group Finance Director of Barclays Bank plc, BAT
Industries plc, Allied Zurich plc and was C.O.O. of Zurich Financial Services
A.g. His current other

non-executive roles include Britannic Group plc, Costain Group plc, Intertek
Testing Services plc and William Hill plc.



Roger Burnell worked for Thomson Travel Group plc from 1975-2000 and was
latterly Acting Chief Executive Officer of that group having previously been
Chief Operating Officer. Prior to that he had been Managing Director of its
Horizons Holidays Ltd, Lunn Poly Ltd and Britannia Airways Ltd businesses. He
is currently non-executive Chairman of International

Life Leisure Group Ltd, and non-executive Chairman of The First Resort Ltd. He
is also a non-executive director of The Home Form Group Ltd.


This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange
:D

[MissChief]

Excellent...on top of this news, loads are high, staff morale is good, and MYT shares are on the up..close this thread now, or at least edit it's destructive title, which smacks of competitor spin to me.

[Alberts Growbag]

I am sure that it cannot be pleasant to read of your employers impending demise but the bottom line of this thread is its title...The end of MYT.

The pure and simple facts of this subject are that MYT has the next six months to prove to its (very impatient) bankers that it can make a profit. I hope that it does and that it survives.

However the more unpalatable fact is that the UK currently has too much IT capacity chasing a totally static (unexpandable) market. The demise of one of the four major players would rationalise the market for the next decade and provide some much needed stability.

I do not wish redundancy on anyone, and having been in the industry for over twenty years I am not unfamiliar with the experience, but reality is simple, MYT may not be here next year if the bankers feel that the end of the road has come, just because a couple of non-executive directors role up and buy some very cheap shares is not going to make a jot of difference.

Mr Roger Burnell is very well known to all who were in Britannia in the late eighties. Remember 'Flight Plan for the Nineties'? (I still have the video). By any other name this was a major hatchet job that centred on degrading pilots working conditions and internal corporate respect whilst promoting the senior cabin crew to feel that they were the true aircraft commanders whilst also seeking major cuts across the airline before he wandered off to higher things within Thompsons. In other words you've got yourself a 'hatchet man' who doesn't like pilots. I would brace for some major 'rationalisation' if he gets any influence in decision making.

I wish all in MYT the greatest of luck, but talking yourselves out of reality on this thread is to deny yourselves the truth.

[fmgs]

Alberts:

I'd like to quote you on something you once said about your own company/management:

As for what the company is like to work for then you will find a reasonable flight deck management, who's hearts are essentially in the right place, being squeezed by the balls by the board of First Choice through their lackies to reduce costs and safety to the point where the pilots and cabin crew are now so demoralised that any attempt to 'get the job done' comes from fear of retribution from above or a mild sense of duty to the passengers rather than company good will.

If you have problems at your own place of work, please don't "dump them" on MYT people. :suspect: The MYT people seem to be making a supreme effort, from the top-down. Don't knock them for that!

You seem to think that people can just "walk-out" of one company, and into another, with the same or even better terms and conditions. Get real, life isn't like that, and all of the MYT people I know are impressed with the efforts that the new management are making.

And, if you want to see "very impatient bankers", go and look in Germany...but, of course, the British Press wouldn't even know where to even find Germany on a map, would they?!!

[Alberts Growbag]

FMGS:

As is so usual of the open forums in PPRuNe when someone posts something that goes against the grain of the 'cuddly warm' feeling that purveys amongst the majority, the poster is villified and personally insulted in such a way that the thread becomes a personal slanging match. This of course goes a long way to show professional pilots in their worst light to anyone viewing the profession from outside. Well done FMGS for upholding the finest tradition of PPRuNers.

I am not going to rise to your post, or comment on the supposed diatribe that you say came from me. Suffice to say that my points about MYT were factual, accurate and are simply the truth. You will be out of work in six months if the banks so decree it...... that has nothing to do with how hard you work, how nice you all are to each other or to the management. I cast no insult on any employee of MYT and resent your accusation that I have. If however you do not enjoy reading the truth then don't shoot at me for telling it to you.

[mondriver]

TANGO
WHISKY
ALPHA
TANGO

Alberts:

If you don't have anything constructive to say, then why bother....

Your "insight" into how well MYT are doing, or not, is plain ignorant.

At least people are making an effort to try and get themselves out of the troubles the company has been in.

Personally, I hope you never find yourself in their position... you will talk yourself out of a job at the first hurdle.

Good luck all at MYT, but then, we are all going to need it...not just you guys !

[EPRman]

mondriver,

Would you call him that to his face? Thought not.

[TripleIRS]

Well said, 'fmgs', I couldn't agree with you more! :ok:

Alberts Growbag:

'fmgs' didn't personally insult you, unless, of course, his quote is untrue. But, as you well know, it's a direct quote from one of your postings, isn't it?

I did a search, just as 'fmgs' must have done, and came up with this:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73308

So, since you are "...not going to rise to your post, or comment on the supposed diatribe that you say came from me," let me comment on your behalf: Truth is everywhere; the truth will always find liars. And you have been "found-out".

The post from 'fmgs' contained facts, something that neither of your postings have. 'fmgs' didn't resort to any form of vitriol, or name-calling; his/her post was considered and to the point.

Seeing as you don't like "cuddly", let me say this; Please don't throw about the stuff that is in the second part of you name, it makes the room so untidy! :p

Good luck to all at MYT, people like 'Alberts' will always find their comeuppance!

[EPRman]

Point is mondriver you lose all credibility when you stoop to using the language of the gutter.

[mondriver]

Ummm....

Point is EPRMan...

That I am getting sick and tired (as I am sure many others on this forum are) of people who are only too keen to run companies and people down with absolutely no regard as to the damage they may be causing.

Certain individuals seem to almost get a sick gratification to promote their "I am in a better situation than you" attitude.

That I am afraid has NO EXCUSE

God forbid we end up in a situation that causes a company, any company to fold, but for people to come on here and profess to know what is going to happen is ignorant. THEY DON'T.

"Gutter language"...maybe....and yes if Alberts was in the same room,pub or whatever and spouted off as he did then... YOU CAN BET YOUR AR*E I WOULD TELL HIM TO HIS FACE... so get off your high horse and get a life !

[BITE]

Actually, I think 'mondriver' picked-up the tone of the last few posts very nicely....nice-one, 'mon'. ;)

As he said, all of us in the charter/IT business are going to need a load of luck this summer, and good management ... loads of good management.

And, seeing as 'Alberts' is so convinced that he is a truthful soul, I'm glad I don't work at his place! :p

*Gets swept away by the torrential Gutter* :p :p :p

[Oceanic Airspace]

And I'd stand by your side any day, 'mondriver'....well said. :ok:

[TightSlot]

Mr Growbag

...whilst promoting the senior cabin crew to feel that they were the true aircraft commanders

Qualified snipers will tell you that it is usually best to identify a single target and concentrate on that rather than to select several at once. The above quote is factually incorrect and gratuitously offensive: It doesn't strengthen your argument about MyT, but does make you appear immature. I' sure that wasn't the intent. If you have an issue with Cabin Crew, as would appear to be the case, then the BAL forum, or the Chief Pilot might be more suitable areas to air your grievances.

I have never met any crew member (except you) in Britannia that has misunderstood the chain of command. Take it outside.

[j17]

MissChief


unless nightflite01 has a load of MYT shares to get rid off, as a controller at Manch, I am sure he has no competitive spin to his posting. He is only trying to clarify romours we hear about companies going under. We hope you all stay afloat to give us another hectic summer.

[kinsman]

To all who have posted messages of support for MYT many thanks! To the rest of you who knows what the future holds for us or any other company in the UK. So do us all a favour and keep your speculation to yourself, it helps no one.

MYT is not the only company having problems at the moment and may well survive when others fail. I sincerely hope we are all still around with jobs when this down turn ends. If you have some supportable facts great otherwise many of us would appreciate it if you shut up!
:*

[Paterbrat]

I am not sure if it was the post or the contents of Albert's bag but it certainly contined very little that was 'warm and cudly' and much appears on these forums that purports to be the 'truth'. The reality of the situation is that an awful lot of us are extremely anxious about our livlehoods and post like that so manfully from the shoulder and telling us like it is can quite honestly be done without. Hope as they say springs eternal, may we all hope for better times, and long may MYT go on.

[bagpuss lives]

I see the title has been edited and that's all good and well :)

I would like to stress however that I'm an air trafficker by name and nature and certainly not party to any competitor spin.

I heard the rumour from more than one source, as did we all at EGCC to be frank, and in an attempt to discover the truth and dispel the nonsense I could think of no better place than here to ask.

I had no motivation in posting and asking questions other than that - and my original question was answered on the first page.

Sorry if I offended anyone :)

And thanks to j17 for responding too :)

[Jack The Lad]

Niteflight :O

I'm sure you meant well, but remember the old saying 'idle talk costs lives'

Hope that's a salutory tale for all here!

[kinsman]

niteflight01

The spin remarks were aimed at the press reports not your question!

However, you have got to ask where such rumours come from!:cool:

[goroundagain]

niteflite01, the answer is the rumours came from you, apparently.You did not to my knowledge name your sources, but you were quite happy to spread damaging rumours and idle gossip that could cost jobs. I have heard the prophets of doom but when it all turns out to be bu11***t the source of the rumour is always anonymous,funny old thing.

And Mr Growbag sounds like he is wishful thinking in order to improve his own position, and then with no small degree of arrogance stating this as a fact. Maybe there is overcapacity in the industry at the moment and some downsizing is prudent,but let us all hope that our jobs will be safe,including Mr growbag's.

It is worth noting that 2 of the big four are now German companies. Strange how their financial woes are rarely reported in the British press. If there is going to be a meltdown in the British market , I sincerely hope it will be the British who prevail.

[timzsta]

Best wishes and good luck to everyone at MYT. Long may the Kestrels soar.

[Alberts Growbag]

Fact 1. MYT has six months to prove to its backers that it can make money and clear its debts. If not, Your finished. The UK IT industry consolidates and stabilises for the next ten years.

Fact 2. Roger Burnell was a 'Hatchet Man' that hated pilots and created a lot of misery and woe for the pilots of BAL in 1990.

Fact 3. Cabin crew in BAL were purposefully targeted in 89/90 to believe that they were the ultimate importance to the profitability of the operation. This resulted on more than one occasion in having the senior crew member entering the flight deck and reach over my shoulder to press the progress page of the FMC and check the arrival time at destination. One even 'ordered' me as the Captain to enter the hold for 20 mins as she had not finished duty free sales. I don't suppose that happens now but it did then thanks to Mr Burnells distortion of the company's perception of pilots and their worth to the company. I hope you enjoy his influence.

Fact 4. I have not, and will not insult any member of staff at MYT. I am merely so saddened and sickened at the lack of intellectual maturity of the so called 'Professional Pilots' on this forum that think that by talking 'up' the problem it will go away.


Get real, **** happens. And right now it's happening to MYT.

Good luck to you all that work for it.


Oh, and my opinion of First Choice management has nothing to do with this thread. Dont abuse the server FMGS.

[kinsman]

Growbag

I for one am fed up with your patronising attitude! You know no more about the future of MYT or the IT industry than any of us, your patronising attitude sickens me frankly!

We all know things have been bad but the message from our new management is very positive! The proof will emerge in time and we do not need the likes of you trying to talk down to us! So get off you high horse and stop making out you know what is going on because you don’t!

Now perhaps Mr Burnell does not like pilots and perhaps he is a hatchet man, I don’t know, but no Tour Operator/Airline is run as a charity and if he brings cost savings to the company that help it survive, he has my vote. The City seems to think he has something to bring to the company so let us wait and see. In my experience effective managers are not always popular!

I firmly believe we have turned the corner and have every chance of returning the company to full health! We still have a way to go and nothing is certain. As you point out, we now appear to have some time to consolidate on changes already made and get it right. Others may not be so fortunate, especially those who have been counting on us not being around this summer.

[TightSlot]

senior crew member entering the flight deck and reach over my shoulder to press the progress page of the FMC

Bloody long arms, these Seniors!

[FougaMagister]

Sorry to bring it back to the original topic, but I recently got offered a No2 seasonal cabin crew job with MyTravel/MyTravel Lite out of BHX (at least they don't ask for 2,500 hrs and an A320 type-rating for that), and it was mentioned they needed two dozen (!) No2s for Brum alone, while the seasonal juniors' training course has already started.

Also, MyTravel have received 1 A320 and 2 A321s so far this year, and Lite is going from 2 to 4 A320s. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine they wouldn't have delayed deliveries and thought twice about the expense of hiring and training so many cabin crew if they were neck-deep in the s..t!

Fouga Magister

[faq]

That's what I thought at Dan Air when they took delivery of new BAe146's in 1992.....

[willoman]

And Goodman's Air Europe - they were ordering new aircraft hand over fist as the ship was sinking.

[A4]

Fact,

These aircraft were ordered over three years ago - not in the last few months. It is not fleet expansion, it is fleet rollover - new for old. This is the reason there are so many "hybrid" MYT/Airtours colour schemes flying around at the moment. Why spend money painting it if it's going back to the lessor in a few months?

Without a doubt, we (and others) are in very tough times. The management and staff are working TOGETHER (shock horror) to drive efficiencies to ensure our survival. This has included an "ask the staff where we can save money process". Many ideas from this are already being implemented with resulting savings.

The stratgic review has been on going since November and one result was the announcment of 2,000 redundancies to the GROUP, WORLDWIDE over the next 2 years. There will be some in the airline no doubt, but as far as I am aware, the airline is one of the shining lights within the group and is doing it's best to become even better.

I'm not naive - I know that our fate does not lie purely in our hands, but my feeling is that the company (particularly the airline) and it's staff are doing their utmost to get the job done and rectify the utter 8alls up that happened last year.

We have taken some very tough decisions already. Perhaps there are other operators out there who may be forced into similar action sooner than they would rather.

We've been through the proverbial mill in the last few months and it is not a nice feeling at all. I wish luck to all in this great industry over the coming months and hopefully years.

A4 ;)

[swede-basher]

Willowman, not entirely correct re AE. From where I was sitting at the time it was speculation on aircraft futures that didn't help AE's ability to weather the storm.

[Jonty]

I wish A4 and all at MYT the best of luck, having also been through the mill in recent times I know what thier going through and its not plesent.:ouch:

[johnwalton]

Flew with MYT MAN-FUE-MAN just last week on the A321, and the inbound flight was on one of the new A321s. The cabin crew said it had been in the fleet "less than eight weeks" and that "the entertainment system was installed, but could not be used as it had not been inspected by the CAA." How long does it take to get the entertainment system certified, +8 weeks?

In relation to the initial topic, the A321 was full going out and full bar 3 seats coming back, there was also a DC10-10 flying an almost identical schedule, +45 mins, which seemed to be pretty busy looking at the people in departures at FUE. I know load factors don't necessarily represent profits, but surely things arn't looking that bad... ?

Also, there are several adverts in their inflight magazine for Cabin Crew/ Sales Consultants etc. Why would they be hiring so extensively if they wern't busy/ were going under?

[Alberts Growbag]

Because it's business as usual until the banks say otherwise.

And what did all those punters on all those full airplanes actually pay for their seats? No profit, no future!

And Tightslot? Those seniors didn't need long arms because they just pushed me out of the way. And I was in the left seat!

[kinsman]

Not much command presence then Growbag!

Get off the no profit hobbyhorse there's a good chap, we all are fully aware of that one thanks! Johnwalton even made the point in his post, had you taken the trouble to read it!

Why is it that you seem to feel it is OK to talk the company down but anyone who feels things are looking better is deluded or naive? As I said before you know no more than the rest of us.

[MissChief]

What's the score with these latest gloomy reports on Breakfast tv? The porky Irish business correspondent said that the weekend meeting between MYT and the government (Alastair Darling, Transport Minister) spelt further problems, yet the Reuters reports in the press are up-beat.

Is the BBC (Business-Bashing Corporation) doing it's usual job of scare-mongering, to raise viewing figures, or is the news really serious? Personally, I haven't trusted BBC news recently. Then again, in this particular case, I am also biased.

[willoman]

Not just BBC - the AOL business section suggests that the Department of Transport and the CAA are concerned that MYT may be unable to cover travel guarantee bonds in the near future. The last CAA/MYT meeting took place on April 9th and is ongoing. MYT state that their bond state is currently covered by present financial state.

[cargo boy]

MyTravel guys, you are trying to shoot the messenger all the time. I doubt any of us in the industry want to see anyone made redundant but moaning at everyone because they are talking about the problems caused by poor management at your company isn't going to make the problem go away.
Govt. in talks with CAA about MyTravel
Source: Daily Telegraph - Business
______________________________________________
Alistair Darling, the secretary of state for transport, has held a series of meetings with the Civil Aviation Authority to examine the affairs of MyTravel.

The country's second largest package holiday company, formerly known as Airtours, has been hit by a series of profit warnings and accounting scandals which have fuelled concerns about that the business.

MyTravel's share price has nosedived from 283.5p last year to 12p last week. The company plunged into the red in 2002, reporting pre-tax losses for the year to September of £72.5m. This followed an investigation into its accounting procedures which uncovered errors amounting to £70.6m.

Darling most recently met the CAA on Wednesday April 6 to discuss MyTravel's plight. The Government could be liable to help foot the bill should a major tour operator or package holiday group collapse.

The Department of Transport has recently pledged taxpayers' money to support the Air Travel Trust. This emergency compensation fund acts as back-up to meet any shortfall to the so-called ATOL financial bond put up by companies to repatriate or reimburse customers.

A spokeswoman for the Department of Transport confirmed Darling's liaison with the CAA. "The secretary of state did meet with the CAA and has done so on a number of occasions to discuss MyTravel," she said.

"The CAA is keeping the department informed. The secretary of state offered no advice on what action it [the CAA] should take on this matter."

The CAA has been closely monitoring MyTravel since its financial problems started to emerge last year. In November MyTravel was forced to restate its 2001 results after an overhaul of its accounting procedures.

The CAA regulates holiday firms on matters such as airline safety and it also controls the ATOL bond scheme. This requires all holiday firms to provide a financial guarantee that can be used by the CAA to repatriate stranded holidaymakers or pay customers back if holidays are cancelled because a firm goes out of business.

Although the CAA has direct regulatory control over MyTravel, the secretary of state for transport is accountable to Parliament for the CAA's proper discharge of its duties.

Helen Simpson, the CAA's director of consumer protection, said: "The message to MyTravel customers is that MyTravel holds its ATOL licence and is fully protected."

MyTravel shareholders have seen the company's market capitalisation shrink from £1.4bn last year to just £60m. The company is in protracted talks with a syndicate of banks over the refinancing of about £470m of debt. It also has more than £600m of off-balance sheet liabilities, such as aircraft leases.

MyTravel stunned investors with three profit warnings in five months last year. Tim Byrne, the chief executive, left in October with a £1.2m pay-off. David Crossland, the company's founder, has also stepped down as MyTravel chairman.

The company has decided to cut 2,000 jobs from its 23,000 full-time workforce to cut costs and improve its financial position. At its annual general meeting last month Eric Sanderson, the new chairman of MyTravel, said he recognised that the company's performance had been unacceptable.

The company warned that since its preliminary results announcement last November, trading had been difficult. It said bookings had deteriorated in recent weeks. The war in Iraq has added to MyTravel's problems.

It has also emerged that the Air Travel Trust is itself in deficit by £8.9m. Although it has a borrowing facility of £21m, the CAA has urged the Department of Transport to put the trust on a firmer financial footing.

[fiftyfour]

As I understand it, MYT doesn,t actually lodge any money for its ATOL licence bond. It just provides a letter from it's bankers that says that if the company ceases trading the bank will pay the bond. MYT pays a fee to the bank for this letter, which is probably renewable/renegotiated once a year. The size of the fee depends on the chance of the bank being able to recover the bond from the ashes of the company when it dies, and it also depends on competition from the other banks for this lucrative business ( i.e. promising to pay huge sums of money that will probably never have to be paid - meanwhile the banks use that same huge sum of money to underwrite promises to other businesses as well). If the banks are being awkward about the next letter and the CAA are getting nervous (which is why Alasdair Darling is getting involved), then the banks are either trying to improve their own bottom line or they are seriously worried about about MYTs bottom line. It is one or the other, or possibly a bit of both - but very unlikely to mean that everything is 'business as usual' at MYT.

[Pub User]

How about this version. The same facts, with a subtle change of emphasis, and one or two new facts introduced:

[quote]

Alistair Darling, the secretary of state for transport, has held a series of meetings with the Civil Aviation Authority to examine the affairs of MyTravel.

The country's second largest package holiday company, formerly known as Airtours, has been hit by a series of profit warnings and accounting scandals, which fuelled concerns about the business.

MyTravel's share price nosedived from 283.5p to 12p in the turbulent period since the September 11th terrorist atrocities. Following the discovery of errors in accounting procedures, amounting to £70.6m, the company plunged into the red in 2002, reporting pre-tax losses of £72.5m.

Darling most recently met the CAA on Wednesday April 6, the day after the share price bottomed at 7.5p, to discuss MyTravel's plight. The Government could be liable to help foot the bill should a major tour operator or package holiday group collapse.

The Department of Transport has recently pledged taxpayers' money to support the Air Travel Trust. This emergency compensation fund acts as back-up to meet any shortfall to the so-called ATOL financial bond put up by companies to repatriate or reimburse customers.

A spokeswoman for the Department of Transport confirmed Darling's liaison with the CAA. "The secretary of state did meet with the CAA and has done so on a number of occasions to discuss MyTravel," she said. Since the meeting the shares have soared to 14p: a gain of 87%.

"The CAA is keeping the department informed. The secretary of state offered no advice on what action it [the CAA] should take on this matter."

The CAA has been closely monitoring MyTravel since its financial problems started to emerge last year. In November MyTravel was forced to restate its 2001 results after an overhaul of its accounting procedures.

The CAA regulates holiday firms on matters such as airline safety and it also controls the ATOL bond scheme. This requires all holiday firms to provide a financial guarantee that can be used by the CAA to repatriate stranded holidaymakers or pay customers back if holidays are cancelled because a firm goes out of business.

Although the CAA has direct regulatory control over MyTravel, the secretary of state for transport is accountable to Parliament for the CAA's proper discharge of its duties.

Helen Simpson, the CAA's director of consumer protection, said: "The message to MyTravel customers is that MyTravel holds its ATOL licence and is fully protected."

MyTravel shareholders have seen the company's market capitalisation shrink from £1.4bn last year to just £60m. The company is in protracted talks with a syndicate of banks over the refinancing of about £470m of debt. It also has more than £600m of off-balance sheet liabilities, such as aircraft leases.

MyTravel stunned investors with three profit warnings in five months last year, as the accounting errors became apparent. Tim Byrne, the chief executive, left in October with a remarkably generous £1.2m pay-off. David Crossland, the company's founder, has also stepped down as MyTravel chairman.

The company has made major strides to cut costs and improve its financial position by cutting 2,000 jobs from its 23,000 full-time workforce. At its annual general meeting last month Eric Sanderson, the new chairman of MyTravel, said he recognised that the company's performance had been unacceptable.

The company admitted that since its preliminary results announcement last November, trading had been difficult. It said bookings had deteriorated in recent weeks, as the war in Iraq added to the problems suffered by the World's airlines.

As an aside, it has also emerged that the Department of Transport's Air Travel Trust itself is in deficit by £8.9m, although it has a borrowing facility of £21m. The CAA has urged the Department of Transport to put the trust on a firmer financial footing.

[quote]

[Carruthers]

All a bit of a non story really. Fact is that MY are still trading so presumably the CAA et al are happy, things can only get better now that the 'war' is over.

[streetsj]

forgive me for intruding but this is anything but a non-story. MY Travel has £220m of a convertible bond outstanding which is due to be redeemed in less than a year. it is currently trading at about 30%. that means that if you bought it today and MYT honoured its obligation you would get three times your money back by January next year.
The market is saying very clealry that is not going to happen. So a refinancing of the company seems inevitable. the question is what will the terms and conditions be. Of course MYT can (and probably will) carry on trading. at least through the summer months. the question is what price will the banks extract for letting it continue.
And if you don't believe it you shold buy the convert and make loadsamoney when you're proved right.

[Carruthers]

Indeed so streetsj, but where is the story? The government are talking to the CAA, no doubt, but nothing has changed. The CAA are apparantly happy with the situation at present. The problem with such reporting is that it inflicts more damage upon the company as the 'great British public' doesn't understand the implications. The company will trade until the end of the summer and then hopefully will demonstrate good reasons for continued support. At what price ? who knows, but the banks and financial institutions will not pull the plug if the company is viable, they have a lot at stake.

[Pontius P]

Oh really? Remember Citibank and Air Europe?

[kinsman]

Air Europe was not viable, BA made sure of that! Harry had a lot of enemies in the city!

[kishna]

....and MYT don't!?

k

[kinsman]

Not in the same way, no! The City did not like Harry! We have a new Board who are more acceptable to the City than the old one!

A point that has passed the press by, at least two of the three other leading tour operators are also in a very bad state, perhaps worse than MYT! One of them is not even a British owned firm! But the press seem intent on hounding MYT, why?

The stories I have read are half-truths or just plain wrong, in other words the normal standard of reporting from the British press. Only the Mail got half way to the truth this weekend! One or two of our competitors are spreading rumour to undermine the future of MYT. Our continued operation has thrown their financial future into grave doubt.

It cannot be denied MYT is not out of the woods and false or exaggerated press stories are not helping. Still all is fair in love and war, time will tell how much damage has been done.

[brakedwell]

And what about Laker? The "experts" said too much money was owed to the banks for them to pull the plug on Freddie.

[kinsman]

Again not the same situation, that again was down to BA. I even seem to remember Laker took BA to court some time later and won a fair amount of money from them!

[goroundagain]

Laker only had about one route , allowing him to be squeezed out by BA who weren't above using anti-competetive techniques,i.e undercutting and cross subsidising.MYT is the second biggest tour operator, and the biggest British one. Therefore it is hardly a fair comparison with Laker.

Albert's Growbag suggests that we are not making any profit on our loadfactors,but if you check the prices it is the others who are selling the distressed stock at the moment.

[willoman]

Goroundagain - I don't know how you define distressed stock but my local MYT shop is advertising to undercut any rival's holiday price by £20. That is certainly distress selling !

[JW411]

Laker had rather more than one route. New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Tampa, Barbados and Toronto spring to mind. In the summer New York and Los Angeles were served three times a day and Miami twice.

Furthermore, Laker did a hell of a lot of IT work not just across the pond but to most of the places that MYT go to now.

The fleet consisted of 11 DC-10s, 4 B707s, 5 BAC 1-11s and 3 A300s. A similar size to MYT perhaps?

[MissChief]

Please take a look at the profiles of the antagonists. Financial analysts, disgruntled share-holders or trouble-makers? Any way you look, MYT is under attack by self-interest people, who presumably will be pleased when 23000 folk lose their jobs. Very sad.

[kinsman]

The attack is from our competitors and the British press. What gets me is the focus is on MYT when others are in a bad state and are not even British owned firms! If the press would leave us alone for the next few months then we would stand a much better chance of surviving!

Heaven forbid the British press should get behind a British company!

[unwiseowl]

Kinsman - from where did you get the information that your competitors are in such a bad way?

[echomikeecho]

Unwiseowl

If you have friends in any of those companies ask them how their company is doing. Then you might have your answer. It's been a hard 2002 and will be a hard 2003 for all of us. The focus is mainly on MYT, initially wholely self induced, but now not aided by press/competitors, whereas the story now should be that it's not just MYT that has been in trouble but now maybe the mayority - especially considering additional factors such as the Gulf war/War on Terror" and the SARS.

[kinsman]

unwiseowl

No offence intended but on what planet have you been living for the last few months? Two of the other companies have based their financial future on us not being around this summer. One had a loss £189 million pounds last year as their main market (Germany) has collapsed! Another has got to make cost savings of around £230 million!

Scheduled carriers have their backs against the wall as well with the Gulf War and SARS. Several are cancelling flights and one is asking crew to take unpaid leave! One can't even give flights away! Need I say more?

I am not happy that other companies are in trouble anymore than my own, it helps none of us in the long run. I would just like to see some fair reporting and the focus off MYT for a change. On the face of it MYT stand a good chance of recovering but with all the press coverage it is making the task harder. Sadly fair reporting in the UK is a thing of the past!

[rupetime]

kinsman


the public have a right to know if someone that they are paying vast amounts of money into for a holiday might not be around when the departure date crops up. this isnt a focus on the travel industry it works in all sectors - thats what business newspapers or business sections report.


myt are in trouble and the public / investors have a right to know.

rt

[carlos vandango]

in that case , don't the public have a right to know the truth about the state of play in companies such as Thomas Cook, TUI etc. None of which are having a good time, having lost as much if not more that My Travel. The more this drags on , the more I suspect it is an attempt to deflect the spotlight from others in just as deep a mess.
My Travel are having a difficult time but at least they can be seen to be doing something about it..new Directors, reduced capacity,
60mil worth of cost cutting introduced, redundancies. They appear to be making a huge effort from the shop floor upwards. Friends from within say there are working their backsides off only to be demoralised on a weekly basis by rumours and halftruths.
Have a look around..the whole industry's up the creek. Even the LCC's are feeling the pinch (except RYR!). Its about time this thread was wound up and cut MYT a bit of slack.

[Symbian]

Well said Kinsman I like you am sick and tired of the MyTravel bashing when we all know everyone is having a hard time. At least we have now dealt with the issues that caused us the grieve in the first place and given a FAIR chance we should come out the end of it a much stronger and better-run company!

As for the press they are just going over old ground again and again which I really do not think is FAIR when so many peoples careers and lively hoods are on the line and not just those who work for MyTravel!

So how about going and picking on someone else and give as a chance to get back on our feet where we belong just like everyone else!
:* :* :*

[FougaMagister]

Well said Symbian - my opinion exactly!

As for the "right to know", I feel that considering the usual standards of reporting by the British press these days, the public has a right to know... only what we are willing to tell them. As we can remember from CRM courses, too much information can do more harm than good.
Also, I can't bear journos giving us lessons in openness when they are NOT, after all, a democratic power - come to think about it, who elected them?

That brings us to another thread about the dangers of talking to members of the press...

[SLT]

From someone with such an eloquent title as "give a dog a beach" (obviously a top expert in the finance sector!!) - I'd think carefully before lending such rumour any credence. There are rumours around all the time about airline's having to pay cash for fuel - 99% of these are just plain wrong.

Spreading such hearsay and rumour is not helpful.

[kinsman]

Tilos

The story is total C***! Where the hell do these stories come from? No doubt again from one of our competitors.

I have just spoken to several departments and a crew who has just returned fromTFS and there is NO TRUTH to this story at all.

Think very carefully before you publish such rubbish again, check your facts or do us all a favour and keep it to yourself!

Feel better now!!!!!:D

[tilos]

Well if your sure, I'll delete the original post.
The thread over on ADVFN.com makes interesting reading though, especially on such a wet afternoon.

[SLT]

Well said kinsman!!

Perhaps if I may be permitted - a few more titbits from the above quoted bulletin board:

Give a dog a beach said when challenged about this -

"Why should I reveal what company I work for, it is obviouse I'm in a competitors ops dept. "

This is the gist of the replies that this eejit has been getting for his well informed and balanced comments -

"I have just been told that a Britannia flight to Majorca is not being allowed to land and is circling the airport in Palma.

Word has it from my mate that works in air traffic they have not paid for their tyres yet and have not paid the window cleaner who is still clung to the outerskin of the aircraft.

I can not give anymore detail than that except to say that he works in the travel industry his first name is pinoccio and he has a big nose."

and my favourite:

"bye bye dog"

It's obvious that "give a dog a beach" enjoys the respect of the other investors on the site!!!!

Tilos,
Why pick up on virtually the only negative post on the whole board?????? What's your agenda?????? :mad: It seems that 99% of people on this bulletin board and ADFVN want MYT to succeed. And in lots of cases not just because they have shares!!

I think I'll finish by quoting one of the guys on the ADFVN board -

"OK, serious answer.

Good company, slightly lost the plot but caught in the nick of time.

Still good company, great products, sound management with their eye very firmly on the ball.

12.5/13 end of next week.

Break 15 before the interims."

Thanks (nearly) everyone for you support through these diffcult times! :D

[TightSlot]

I don't quite follow the logic behind all this.

MYT is in financial difficulties. This is well established and is reflected in the share price. In the present difficult industry climate, rumours will circulate: most will be inaccurate. If the Board of MYT wished to avoid this situation, it should have carried out its' own business activities with rather more care.

It cannot be wrong for the British Press to comment on a company that is in difficulty. They are simply doing their job: so is Alastair Darling when he attends meetings, and the various banks/creditors when they make decisions that affect their bottom line. This isn't MYT bashing, it is just business as usual.

Some rumours may have been originated by competitors, or spread further, although to date there is no proof. This too, is business as usual. MYT would do exactly the same to competitors were the situation reversed. Business is competition, and any company will seek to take maximum advantage from the misfortune of any competitor.

Other Tour Operators are certainly having as tough a time as MYT, and they also have financial issues. However, they are not yet in the same position as MYT, as is reflected in the share price, and to suggest that they are (or are in fact in worse trouble) is wishful thinking. Any suggestion that there is some sort of conspiracy established to prevent their dire financial circumstances being made visible is also fanciful: The financial press would leap on any story about a failing Tour Operator with gusto - as they have indeed with MYT.

Decisions about the viability, or otherwise, of MYT will be made by Banks and creditors: Rumours (false or not) that are posted here will not affect those decisions.

Before the flames start, I'm not bashing MYT. I'm neutral, I wouldn't wish that sort of pain on people in my industry, competitors or not. I'd dearly love to see the departed Board members who are the real villains of the piece, held to account for the misery they have cause. I just don't see that jumping all over rumour mongers and blaming as many others as possible is going to help the situation one bit. Gritted teeth and nose to the grindstone (sounds painful) might be a more useful response.

[tilos]

SLT

It was the only post that had any relevance to MYT 's aviation business and I was seeking an educated opinion.

[kinsman]

Tightslot

Agree with some of your post but the company other than MYT that is in the most trouble at the moment is not listed on the stock exchange and is German owned. It is not wishful thinking, I would not wish such problems on anyone! But the fact remains they need us out of the way to save themselves! Hence some of the rumours!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Rumours may not affect the banks directly but they will affect our customers and hence the banks!

[unwiseowl]

Kinsman - thanks for answering my question. Sorry if I offended you: I didn't intend to.

[kinsman]

unwiseowl

No offence taken but all these false rumours are getting very wearing for those of us trying to keep going from day to day!

[javelin]

For what it's worth, here is a link to TUI's share price - couldn't find a link for the other lot. Check out the 2 year history - not good at all.

http://www.tui.be/en/ir/share/shareprice.html

[tangocharlie]

I like many others hope that MYT do survive. Their demise is not good for all competitors as suggested by many. Also, more importanly to me, many of my friends are there.

It does seem though that there are severe problems there from noting various news releases (not PPRUNE). The thought that the posts on this site are going to contribute to the downfall of the company are somewhat overstated, in my opinion. Also, if the complainants are that concerned about the continual comments then aren't their continued responses adding to the 'fire'.

MYT are good airline and I hope the whole company will be here for us to talk about next year.

[kinsman]

Tangocharlie

Your point is accepted but I have seen quotes from this forum in the papers. A number of Journalists trawl sites like this one looking for gossip that they can turn into news! I would love to see this thread die but sadly one cannot leave some of the wilder comments unanswered!

[NormanDLandings]

A fairly old report I know but probably enough proof that the rest of the industry is an a bad or even worse state than MYT:

Mon 27 Jan 2003

The Business raises TUI refinancing concerns

The Business reports that TUI AG is running into ‘increasing liquidity problems’ which could force it to ask majority shareholder WestLB for emergency funds.
The news comes after TUI AG’s 2002 update last week. A profits warning and its refusal to make a 2003 forecast led to shares dropping by 16% in Germany over the week.
Thomsons is also rumoured to have suffered the slowest start of the UK major tour operators, with The Business reporting that Thomson is currently 30% down on last year.
The paper reports that TUI AG’s net debt is €4bn, with off-balance sheet liabilities of €6bn. Market cap currently stands at €2.3bn. A €2bn loan, due this April, will be repayed from non-core disposals, but a €550m convertible bond which will need refinancing next year is causing most concern.
The bond is set to convert into TUI shares at €64.48 – the shares are currently trading at €12.88.
The Business mentions that ‘a similar convertible bond was one of the factors that worsened the troubles of MyTravel’
. WestLB, which owns 32% of TUI AG, declined to comment, while TUI AG is refusing to comment in the run-up to its May FYs.

[kinsman]

I rest my case and TUI is not as badly off as some others! But do the great British press balance the reporting! No why not keep banging away at a British company!

[CaptainFillosan]

It would be easy to quote from the Financial Mail about MYT's current state of affairs on their front page. But, there is alarm in the city, and with many analysts, that MYT are refusing to hedge their currency for 04 - an absolute must. The signal this gives is not at all healthy, in fact it is pretty damn bad.

[kishna]

The mail on sundays "story" is on this link

www.thisismoney.com/20030427/nm62216.html

[kinsman]

The story is not pleasant reading but again not new! Nothing has changed since last November with respect to this story! As I understand it when the refinancing is complete, which should happen in the next few weeks, then the Company will look at next year. As the Mail sort of points out, the Banks wanted our house in order before committing to next year. It was in the last year’s financial report it was not a secret!

Yes it is a gamble but what isn’t at the moment!

[keepitlit]

Capt Fill
With reference to the Daily Mails postings this morning which you have read!!.
It stated that the new overdraft agreement would not allow "hedging" there for the decision was taken away from My Travel.
However if it really is a must do you really think that the banks,(going on past records on how they have treated other airlines)would have taken an uncalculated gamble if this was so important for them to survive.
I am very saddened by the way the press(Daily Mails Financial section) have delt with this situation.

I wish MY all the best for two reasons

1. I have a lot of hard working friends who have done nothing but do their best and keep the head down through all this.:ok:

2. I dont want to see 500 unemployed pilots hit the dole cue or the low cost outfits benefiting from loads of free type ratings.

:{


Good luck My travel and hope to see you in years to come.

P.S. A good fuel saving exercise would be to ban all news papers from the aircraft,the excess weight reducion of Sh*te would save a good few kgs.(best for weight reduction would be to ban the Daily Mail):ok:

Best wishes and rdgs

K.I.L.

[Atropos]

Hear hear re: the Daily Moaner. They are not just anti MYT, the amount of misreporting concerning other operators especially BA is unbelievable. If I had my way I wouldn't carry the biased blatently lying rag on my a/c at all!

[Captain Max]

Yet another misrepresentation by the media. Not to hedge seems like good business practice to me, when you consider that the Euro is at an almost three year high. Anyone doing business in Europe next year would well placed if they didn't fix the rate now. Seems like common sense to me!

[MissChief]

Time for MYT's PR Department to swing into dynamic and forceful action...errrr do they have a PR Department? If not, then MYT must employ an external agency asap..sad to say it, but they really must fight fire with fire, and not stay quiet in the hope that it will all go away..competitors are determined to knock out MyTravel to save their own skins. This is the way of the world.

And don't rule out the Ryans or eJ as the possible muck-rakers..they stand to gain substantially by picking up a good low-cost operation at BHX, and stuff the 25000 employees and their jobs.

[kinsman]

Misschief

I agree!

[rupetime]

Maybe they dont have any fire to fight with ?!

[CaptainFillosan]

Well they had better do something! And PDQ. The vultures, wolves and worms are stirring in the background for sure. The banks are ruthless and they are none too happy with the way things are going. Their support is not written in stone, except perhaps sandstone, and will surely wear away unless the right moves are forthcoming.

But, from whence that will be is very worrying.

[Lou Scannon]

I read in one of the better papers that the "Mail on Sunday" employ the Honourable Esteemed Comrade Mr George Galloway as a correspondent and pay some £70,000 a year for the words if infinite wisdom that he drops on the masses via their Scottish edition.

How can you possibly criticize the accuracy of the paper's reporting with a man of that stature in their employ?

Just as soon as the men of the Elite Republican Army force the Americans and their British lackeys back across the nearest border
(Under the inspired leadership of HEC Galloways revered friend) the Mail will no doubt get around to publishing even more information about My Travel.

I can hardly wait!

[kinsman]

Captainfill'

I am not worried about the banks, they know what is really going on and will not be much influenced by the Mail Either way but the passengers will be! We are assured the plans to put us back on track and refinace are well in hand. I only hope these plans come to fruition before the passengers stop flying!

I agree our PR has been very poor since this all started last year. That said everyone told us we were dead last year (including the Mail) and despite the PR department we are still here!

[CaptainFillosan]

If you are not optimistic kinsy, you are making a brilliant effort at not showing it. You know that I wish you well. As with all the FD crews and staff, many of whom I know personally. But I do worry that MYT are dragging their feet. The city doesn't like that. They always view it as 'hiding something' - but sadly not under a bushel.

I am glad I never worked for them, but thereby hangs another tale!

It would be worth spending a few hundred grand on PR just to stop the rot in the city.

Let us hope that it will all come right. :ok: