150 hours?

[rich49]

Heya,
The minimum requirments to undertake CPL training are 150 hours TT, does that include the 45 hours that were earnt during the PPL training? Also, how do you go about building up the 150 hours? At £100 rental per hour (not to mention all the other expenses...) thats going to be £10 000! That cannot be right!
How do you build up 150 Hours?
Cheers.

[FNG]

Hours is hours is hours, so, yes, all hours from the first lesson onwards count towards total time. As for hour building, why not find yourself a share in a cheap PFA aircraft and fly for dozens, not hundreds of quid an hour, also discovering a world of interesting flying on the way.

[FlyingForFun]

Hi rich,

Yes, the 150 hours does include your PPL training. Also, for license issue you need to have 200 hours total time (as well as a number of other requirements, such as the 300nm flight with 2 stops). Since the course is a minimum of 25 hours, you may want to build your hours to a little more than this.

There are lots of ways of building hours. Yes, you can rent at £100/hr. Or you could go to America/Canada/Australia/South Africa and rent much cheaper. For less than £1000 you can buy a share in a single-seater PFA aircraft which will cost you around £15/hr and £15/month, so you can build 100 hours in 3 months for significantly under £3000, and that's assuming you can't or don't want to sell your share when you finish (but you may have trouble getting insured on some of these aircraft if you don't have any tail-wheel time). Insurance is far easier to get on a two-seater aircraft - I fly my aircraft for around £35/hr, and £50/month.

You will probably want to do a 5-hour minimum night qualification (if you don't, you'll only have to do an extra 5 hours of night training for your CPL). Or an IMC rating. Maybe have a go at aerobatics. Ever fancied getting a tail-wheel checkout? Or a sea-plane checkout?

The most important thing is to make use of your hour-building. Don't just spend 100 hours in the circuit. When you start your CPL course, you'll be expected to fly very accurate cross-country legs, and to be able to land consistently. Don't just build hours, make sure you gain experience and competence while you're at it. And, on that subject, you'll need to spend some time doing either the CPL exams or the ATPL exams before you start your CPL course. You might like to leave at least part of the hour-building until after your exams, so that you're current when you start the flying course.

Whatever you do, though, make it fun!

FFF
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[Bodie]

FNG is right, all hours count - from your very first trial flight, providing of course, you are Pilot in command or under training. Being just a passenger doesn’t count!

Hour building is a case of getting as much valuable experience for as little money as possible.

To achieve this many people go abroad and combine it with a holiday. Many US schools offer 100hrs for an attractive fixed price - this means spending about 4 weeks abroad, which most people are unable to do.

By the time you have done this, bought plane tickets, added on living expenses etc, you may as well have bought a share in a UK a/c, hour built in your spare time and then sell the share and put it towards further training.

IMPO I believe that flying in the complex and congested UK airspace, dodging around British weather, is more useful than flying straight lines in Arizona for 200nm, but hey...

Money wise? A UK share from £1000 to what ever you want to spend. Look at a group charging no more than say £45/hr with fuel. Shares include a monthly payment in the order of (for a sensible hour building a/c) £20 -£80 per month.

Compare this to a US school and it's favourable, honest!

Bodie

Edited: FlyingForFun's advice is all good. Especially note his night rating comments.

[rich49]

Thanks for the advise, sorry for being ignorant but whats a PFA aircraft? Would anyone let me into a syndicate, or would I get insured as a 45 hour 18 year old kid? I cannot imagine someone letting me have a share in a plane so young. Also, I am going to Uni in september and I am waiting to see if I have been succesfull in obtaining a PPL scholorship (it looks doubtfull, only 6 places!!!) so IF I am succesfull in getting the scholorship I wouold be ready to start hour building during uni, were would I go to get into a syndicate? Lastly I would still want to apply for airline sponsorship if and when it makes a comeback (with BA for example) what level of experience would reduce my chances of being excepted?

[FlyingForFun]

PFA = Popular Flying Association. All aircraft in the UK have to either have a Certificate of Airworthiness (CofA) issued by the CAA, or a Permit issued by the PFA. PFA aircraft usually include home-builts, classic aircraft, restoration projects, etc. They are cheaper for two reasons: modern homebuilts use technology which will take many years before all the legalities allow it to be used in CofA aircraft, and also the owners are allowed to do the maintenance themselves before having it signed off by an inspector. The PFA's website (http://www.pfa.org.uk/) has more information.

Whether you can get insured on a group aircraft will depend on the group. My group would insist on you having instruction with a PFA coach until he signs you off. If the insurance company increased our premium because of you, we'd expect you to pay the increase. The same rules apply to anyone who wanted to join our group. Other groups may have different rules - the only way you can find out is to ask!

Can't help you with the sponsorship question, but there's a new Sponsorship+Jobs forum where you should be able to get some advice on this one!

FFF
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[Edit beacuse I forgot to mention that many PFA aircraft are allowed to use MoGas - car petrol - which is cheaper than AvGas. And I'm sure there are other reasons why they're cheaper which I've forgotten, too.]

[Megaton]

Rich49,

Out of curiosity who are you hoping to get a PPL scholarship with?

[Dakota Queen]

I am a regular viewer of this forum and would just like to say well done to FFF for his consistent valuable contributions......for all of us guys who have no clue he gives detailed responses and helps out whenever possible

Cheers man

;)

[FlyingForFun]

:O

Thanks Queen! But actually, most of what I know comes from reading these forums and repeating what's been said already! Oh, and occassionally from posting things which are blatantly wrong, and then learning from other people correcting me. Anyone can do it really - I suspect I'm just the only one bored enough at my day-job to post this much!

FFF
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[Dakota Queen]

Bored? you an me both!!

take it easy

:}

[rich49]

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it, for someone who only has 5 hours in gliders, everything seems a little overwhelming to begin with! Ham Phisted, I have applied to the GAPAN PPL scholorship. I am eagerly awaiting their reply but at the same time trying to prepare myself for rejection as their is only 6 places! The closure date is April 11, you have to be 17 years of age, eligible for class 2, able to undertake training in the summer of this year and show a keen ambition to fly, which I certainly have! Thanks for your help once again.
Richard :D

[StrateandLevel]

You could of course spend 55 hours doing an IR, that will count towards the total hours and you get 10 hours off the CPL course.

[Megaton]

Good luck with the scholarship. Had a visit from the great and the good at GAPAN a couple of weeks ago and what a bunch of gentlemen they were. More experience and knowledge than you could shake a stick at.

[rich49]

Ham Phisted: Thanks, thats good to know! Strateandlevel, I have heard that there are disadvantages in taking an IR first, for example, it being a more difficult rating and being more difficult to pass. I also assume that a PPL IR is the same rating as a CPL IR? So after getting the IR I would have to build 50 more hours, and then take a CPL followed by a MECR? (Sorry if this belongs in the Pro Training forum). Of course I would have to do my ATPL ground exams too. Anyway, thanks for your help.