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cubby
18th Mar 2003, 22:12
Hi all,

I have been asked if I am intrested in collecting a C182 from florida, which one of my x students is intrested in buying.
He would come with me and pay all expences.

Great, what a trip!!

Problem is I know nothing about getting across the pond via the arctic circle.

Has anyone done it?
Is there some literature on the subject?
Are there companies who specialise in it?

Other subjects:
Insurance
Import/export tax , licences, certificates.
Route
Maintainance
Fuel
Time of year
Landing fees
Places to stay
How long does it take

I am a JAR CPL/IR FI with a US PPL

Thanx
Cubby.:confused:

Keygrip
18th Mar 2003, 22:47
Couple of things immediately spring to mind...

If that Florida based C182 is "N" registered then you are a PPL - not a CPL/IR (if you understand my drift).

Consider doing the "Instrument Foreign Pilot" written exam in order to become, effectively, an FAA PPL/IR.

Second - and biggest - hurdle is that, for every journey I've heard about EASTBOUND (USA to UK), the Authorities will not allow you to leave Newfoundland towards Greenland unless you can show previous route experience.

I know others will argue this - but an ex-boss of mine used to do it fairly regularly - and was grilled, every time.

His first words of advice for anybody trying to do it was "take every day as it comes - you could be weathered in, in Greenland, for days and days - don't set yourself a time target - just take it as it comes. The "point of no return" comes fairly quickly in a light single - even with ferry tanks".

Doghouse
18th Mar 2003, 23:01
Yeah, I've done it.

In flying terms it's not too difficult - just boring! From an achievement perspective, it would help if your JAR CPL/IR is born from a fair amount of GA experience. The Oxfordites and Cranfordites would probably struggle with the transit - once you get 3-odd hours outside Newfoundland, you're committed to Narsarsuak, so you need to be able to get in whatever (and I mean whatever - I had fog on an arrival in Greenland but there's no turning back).

There are loads of websites giving you advice. I'm sorry I don't have any addresses but they are out there no problem.

I'd have thought your biggest problem is licensing: you have a JAA CPL/IR and yet I suspect the aircraft will be an N reg. How are you going to make this work? I have made the trip VFR but that was with some pretty creative interpretations of VMC. Don't get caught out trying to make the trip on the wrong licence.

One piece of advice I would give you is don't take the owner unless you've done the trip before. Whilst it does relieve the boredom to take someone with you, the thought of doing the trip for the first time and taking someone with me who had low hours makes the spine tingle. If it's your first time, I would seriously recommend taking someone with you who knows what they're doing. I certainly wouldn't take an inexperienced person on my first trip - even now I'd be doubtful about it. Also, insurance could be a problem.

Have a great flight. I'm off on the same trip in May in an Archer. Please don't take the flight lightly - a friend of mine was killed barely a few months ago in Newfoundland and she had done many ferry flights. The north Atlantic is not the place to be with an inexperienced pilot when you have a problem.

Enjoy

drauk
19th Mar 2003, 09:46
For a different view point on this, you might want to take a look at "The Cockpit" by Paul Gahlinger. It describes him doing such a journey, though it's not really aimed at pilots. As such it won't tell you much about the technicalities of what you want to do, but it might give some insight in to what the journey would feel like.

Flying Lawyer
19th Mar 2003, 20:09
I can't help you with the legal requirements for the flight because it's probably all changed since I did it 10+ years ago but, if you have the opportunity to make the flight and can clear up the licence aspect, go for it - you may never have the opportunity again.
It's a wonderful trip and, although the time over the Atlantic must become boring for the regular ferry pilots, I'd be very surprised if you're bored the first time. North America from the air? Greenland, with its mountains, fiords and icecap? Not what I call boring!

I can see Doghouse's point about leaving the owner behind and taking a more experienced pilot, but isn't the danger that the owner will go with the more experienced pilot and you'll be the one left behind. :eek:
I did it with an experienced pilot, but neither of us had crossed the Atlantic before. Read everything you can, speak to an experienced ferry pilot, and plan, plan, plan. By the time you set off, you should know the trip in minute detail in your mind. We didn't have the luxury of GPS 10 years ago but if I did it again I'd take two, and be ready to carry on if they both went u/s! Greenland doesn't have many airports, the diversions are a few hundred miles away and, if you're routing via Narssarssuaq (Southern tip of Greenland) a few degrees adrift and you could easily miss an entire country!

Try to get hold of a book called 'Ocean Flying - A Pilot's Guide' by Louise Sacchi, published by McGraw-Hill ISBN 0-07-054405-0. It's pre-GPS, but a mine of valuable information about every aspect of flying the North Atlantic. I don't know if it's still in print. If you can't find a copy you can borrow mine, on your solemn undertaking to return it. It's of great sentimental value. :)

Tudor Owen

andrewc
21st Mar 2003, 01:27
In the latest Flying there is a reference to a DVD,
'Flying the North Atlantic Safely' by Ed Carlson
who has made the trip 230 times (and I don't think
thats in 747's).

-- Andrew

Thrifty van Rental
21st Mar 2003, 10:53
The best advice I read on this thread was from Keygrip. Don't plan on getting to the US/Europe on a particular date unless your aircraft is pressurised and deiced, and even then - don't count on it.

By contrast, I've never been "grilled" on the relatively few occasions I've done the flight. The only thing the Canadians seem to care about is that you have sufficient endurance for the prevailing weather, and that you have a current and relevant IR.

Good luck - you'll love it - but take care.