uk flight training, long beach,california

[airline wannabe]

I am thinking about going to uk flight training at long beach in California in september to do some flying. Does anyone have any opinions about this school? What is the $15 a night student accomodation like? Are there any hidden costs that the UK rep doesn't tell you about?

[pilotwolf]

Can't comment on the particular school, but..

I ve done the majority of my flying/training form LGB, not been in the last 18mths or so however, not to fly at least. In total been back about a dozen times now.

Good place to learn, it's a fairly busy airfield and you'll be training alongside commericial jet operations at a controlled field - good experience if you intend flying in busy areas later. It's also one of the busiest GA airfields around - usually 3 runways in operation at anyone time plus the three helicopter training pads.

Tower staff excellent, well used to dealing with students - mostly very helpful and very patient.

The surrounding areas are good for training as it is possible to be in uncontrolled airspace withinin minutes or dealing with the LAX traffic depending on your wishes!

Weather tends to be good most of the year, southerly winds tend to cause a few problems as they are uncommon and seem to confuse everyone! I suffered a few days of dense fog in the early morning - but it soon burns off and a few days were unflyable, (rotary), due to wind and heavy rain. The LA smog layer takes a bit of getting use to!

Good facilities on and around the airfield - nice eateries - nice beaches - plenty of night life - above all it safe on the streets as long as you are sensible. I would suggest hiring a car - you ll need it to get around, especially if you intend sightseeing or visiting the theme parks - you WILL want/need a break from training at some point.

If you are interested, depending on how long you are planning on staying, I could probably fix you up with accomodation in a local home,(20 mins drive), for about $120 a week - own room, shower, etc. PM if you are interested, they are friends of mine so no business interest on my part!

PW

[Nick91767]

I was at UK flight training (Rainbow Air) in Long Beach on Friday because my brother was trying to find out about converting his FAA licenses and ratings that he is currently training for at the school where I work. The impression that I got from their addmissions director was you pay alot for a course that included alot of crap you could do with out such as return flights and vip membership to an FBO or somthing. Even though we only wanted to find out about converting the FAA instrument we were told this was not possible and the best thing for him (my brother) to do was switch schools and enroll in their $90,000+ ATPL course. I got a very used car salesman feel from it. Check out welshpool in wales http://www.poolavia.enta.net/school.htm they charge 1,125 pounds for the IMC. If that is all you want to do it would probably work out cheaper for you.

[no sponsor]

UK Flight Training and Rainbow air are different schools. One does FAA stuff (rainbow air) and the other does JAA training. They are run and owned by different people, although Rainbow Air is co-owned by a Brit. I've been to RA, and I would recommend them.

LA flying is good for the practice of flying in very busy airspace, but don't be fooled by the weather: the marine layer can make life very difficult for the VFR pilot: often visibility can fall to 2-3 nm, often in the mornings you can't see anything. I think the best time to go would be April time. I've been in Feb, and the weather was pants (raining all the time) and in November when the marine layer was still there. Very frustrating.

Personally, I think LA and Long beach is a dump, but its cheap living, and the flying is good. If you can cope with the basin airspace, you can fly anywhere in the world quite comfortably, your R/T will be greatly improved.

[ariel]

Nick

Pool Aviation do NOT operate from Welshpool any more, they haven't done now for nearly a year. Welshpool is now Mid Wales Airport, and the flying school Welshpool Flying School. Presently, we do not offer IMC training from the school itself, but can put people in touch with who does.

[buzzc152]

Airline Wannabe

Check your PM's !!!! Do NOT go to this school.

[tomjrobertson]

I'm thinking of going to UK Flight Training also. Buzzc152, what do you mean by "check you PM's don't go to that school"? :confused:

[buzzc152]

I mean that my experiences with UKFT may well be of interest to anyone thinking of going there but I don't wish to post them on the open forum.
PM= Private messages. On the main formum index page scroll right down the bottom past all the foreign and private forums. The last option is private messages.... go in there and you'll see I have sent you something. Feel free to e-mail me.

[Julian]

I have used both UKFT (about 3 years ago) and Rainbow(recently) for training.

UKFT was on the whole OK, they had their points which let them down but there again so does every school. In my group there were about 10 of us of which only 1 had a gripe with the school. he ended up leaving, later on we found he basically would not listen to his instructor so they ended up not getting on. I would say that one thing to check would be exactly what you paying for your course, get it agreed and in writing as a few people got caught out for extras they were not expecting.

Rainbow I have used for both training and hire. Aircraft are generally in good condition and not had any problems with them, prices are also pretty reasonable and they usually have a n 'offer of the week' on one aircraft so its a good idea to keep an eye on that one. Calibre of instructor I have found to be very high, I have used 4 of them during my visits and never had any problems at all. Dave Parson (joint owner) is a Brit and very approachable, he is quite willing to sit down and explain things to you or just have a chat in general.

On the accomodation side I have always used the 'Guest House HOtel' on East Pacific Coast Highway which has a room deal with both schools. I think it works out about $32/night+Tax and rooms are big and clean, two of you could quite happily stay in a room if you wanted to save money as there are generally two twin beds in each room. As for the $15/night accomdation I have heard it is VERY basic, i.e. to the point of a mattress on the floor! This may have changed since but would advise emailing them beforehand to find out exactly what you are getting and if its a shared room.

[weetabix]

I did a ppl in Long Beach CA in 2000, really enjoyed it, made some good friends and had the holiday of a lifetime! Then returned to the same place to do some hour building last summer.

I had no qualms UKFT when doing my PPL, though have met a few who have done, as some of these prior posts suggest.

Do not trust implicitly what people say to you over the phone when selling you a PPL or other training from such a distance, until you have it in writing and it is absolutely clear to you. At least, definitely don't pay-up until then!

The accommodation was well priced and the general location in terms of flying and other attractions (if you have time) was excellent.

I think the golden rule here is don't pay up untill you are certain of what you are getting, in writing. Also if you choose to do any extras (e.g. night rating/IMC etc) make sure you have a quote IN WRITING first.

Good luck making up your mind!

[Midnight Mike]

If you need any info about the Long Beach area, let me know? I live in Long Beach and work for FlightSafetyBoeing, my email address is
[email protected]

[vinil]

I went there and had an excellent time. The quality of instruction was excellent.

There were some students who were hanging out till 1 am at the local bar next to the guest house motel. One guy even showed up next day under influence to fly and was sent back. They are the ones who complained.

If you prepared to work hard, you will get your PPL.

[BillieBob]

UKFT no longer hold approval for JAA training

[vinil]

I currently live in San Diego. I got my JAA and FAA PPL with UKFT and got my license without a hitch. As far as I know they are still training students.

[BuzzBuzz]

Anyone can view the list of approved schools at:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf

It does appear that the school is missing, however, I would strongly suggest you ask the school or the CAA why they are no longer on there........it could be valid but then again it could be a mistake :ouch:

Good luck!

[vinil]

I managed to get my JAA PPL there. I contacted the school and they referred me to the CAA. I am not sure if anything has changed recently. The CAA confirmed that they have been aware of UKFT since 1990 and they were the first school to start JAA training in the USA.

[[u]]

Strange UKFT used to have their own CAA registration
promonently on their website, but now that is gone.

They are not listed on the CAA website anymore, but still
claim to do JAA stuff.

Guess people should better be very very carefull.

[Tigereye]

give them a ring 0800 652 8869...and find out

[BillieBob]

I called the CAA today, spoke to someone in FCL who confirmed that their website is correct and UKFT no longer hold any JAA approvals, although they declined to say why they had been withdrawn. I understand that UKFT still provide FAA training and so you can always do a FAA PPL and convert it to a JAA one later, I suppose.

I also hear rumours that another organisation in Long Beach is close to gaining JAA approval.

[Dude~]

I did my CAA PPL with UKFT a long time ago, (1997). I passed, but the flight test was a joke, ann the 'examiner' never got around to doing the oral test. It only took me an hour to get flying back in the uk, but over the next couple of years, some significant gaps in my skills showed up. They were not handling skills, I've always been good at flying the plane, but checklist procedures and radio work was lacking.
I was my instructore first pupil, and though we got on well, it dawned on me just how superioir an instructor can be when I did my mulit rating a few years later in Australia with an ex DC3 pilot with thousands of hours.

Anyway, I must empahsise that I do not know what UKFT is like these days as I'm sure the staff have all long changed, but my advice would be

'do everything possible to learn to fly in the UK'

Not because of the weather, but you are more likley to experience a better attitude towards flying, not a 'kick the tyres and lets go' attittude. Also you won't be like a beginner when calling London Info for the first time!

By all means go stateside, but only once you are qualified and can enjoy your skills by touring.

[no sponsor]

Dude,

I would have thought your radio skills would be pretty superior to the average UK trained PPL.

My experience of Long beach, from some hour building time, was that my radio skills were pretty bad compared to what was needed for speaking to SOCAL on a busy day. I learnt at a reasonably busy UK airfield, but nothing had prepared me for flying in LA!!

[vinil]

Dude,

If your instructor did such a bad job then it would have taken you more than an hour to do a checkout in the UK. Sounds like you were born to fly and learnt everything yourself. You should appreciate the time and the effort your instructor put to train you.

Radio procdures are different in each country. The Socal communication is just a little more work than London Flight Info.

[vinil]

I checked with the CAA and they confirmed that UKFT is still conducting PPL training along with the IMC and Twin.

[BillieBob]

Since vinil seems to have an axe to grind here, having rejuvenated this thread, let's get a bit of clarity into the proceedings.

First of all, UKFT is not approved to provide training for JAA licences. The information on their website and, coincidentally, in vinil's posts is very carefully, some might say deviously worded. UKFT claim to provide a "JAR Compliant PPL .... recognized in the UK as well as 186 International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) countries." Quite true, but this is, of course, no more than a FAA PPL which can be gained at any US flight school, in some cases at considerably less cost.

What was said in my last post remains absolutely correct - you can get a FAA PPL at UKFT and subsequently convert it to a JAA PPL (by passing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations and the PPL Skill Test). However, there is nothing to prevent an individual from gaining a FAA PPL elsewhere than UKFT and making their own arrangements with approved organisations in the UK or overseas for the necessary test and examinations.

None of the above is intended to denigrate, in any way, the training provided by UKFT, of which I have absolutely no experience. It is, however, important that potential customers understand exactly where UKFT stands, and that is in exactly the same place as any other US flight school offering training for FAA licences and ratings.

Incidentally, vinil is quite right to say that UKFT are still conducting training for the PPL, IMC and Twin. What he conveniently omits to say is that none of these is a JAA licence or rating. Yes, the PPL that UKFT provide is 'recognised' by the UK CAA - on the same basis as any other ICAO licence.

The rumour about a new FTO in Long Beach was not quite correct. The FTO concerned is, in fact, in the San Diego area and, I understand, has recently been visited by a CAA inspector. According to the CAA website, however, it has not yet received approval.

[No. 2]

BillieBob - Out of interest, what's this new school in San Diego called?

No. 2

[no sponsor]

BilliBob

I don't think your assertion that you need to convert is true, based on their text at: http://www.rainbowair.com/academy_JAA-CAA_PPL.htm

They clearly state: 'There is no conversion of licence when you return to the U.K.'

It looks like UKFT has teamed up with Rainbow Air to offer the course. My only word of caution is to look closely when you would want to attend. Some months the LA basin can be like flying in pea soup; which as a trainee pilot means only one thing: lots of days spent sitting drinking coffee.

Of course, its better to phone the club up and ask directly. The man I knew at Rainbow Air is a Brit called David Parsons. Nice chap, and he'll even pick you up from LAX if you ask nicely!

[No. 2]

no sponsor - that's true because you can fly in the UK on any ICAO licence. However, if you want a JAA licence then you'll have to convert.

[BillieBob]

Quite correct, No.2, all you can get from UKFT (or Rainbow Air for that matter) is a FAA PPL, which will afford you the same privileges in the UK as any other ICAO licence.

Can't name the new FTO, I'm afraid, but it's well established in the UK. Keep your eye on the CAA list.

[no sponsor]

I think the best course of actionis to phone the school.

You can't fly G- registered aircraft on a FAA PPL.

[aardvark keeper]

BY THAT LOGIC UK/JAA PPL HOLDERS CAN'T FLY N REG....... THEY CAN & YANKS FLY "G"

[BillieBob]

What rubbish, no sponsor!! Of course a FAA PPL holder can fly a G-reg aircraft, and one registered in any of the other ICAO contracting States for that matter. He cannot, however, fly for the purposes of public transport or aerial work (including flight instruction) or in controlled airspace where IFR is mandatory (whether or not he has an instrument rating). Try reading the ANO, Article 21.

[no sponsor]

So how come I had to go and convert my JAA licence to a FAA licence to fly N registered aircraft? I also had to get a certificate from CASA to fly a VH- registered aircraft?

You can't just rock up at a foreign club, flash your licence, and hope to be checked out to go solo. If you know of a place, let me know, since it saves time and money!

Anyway, back to the point of the post, I guess it's best to phone UKFT/Rainbow and see what they've got to say. Seems odd they claim to be recognised when their name is not under the approved FTO list from the CAA.

[vinil]

You can all go on about it but the bottom line is that I am happily flying in the UK on a PPL gained at UKFT. I got my JAA and my FAA PPL with them. I also saved thousands by learning to fly in the USA.

[Rowardennan]

I'm thinking about booking a PPL course at UK Flight Training in Long Beach. I've read the rest of the posts here and I'm aware of the JAA/FAA issues

I've been in touch with the school and it's true that they used to offer the JAA PPL but that is no longer the case. If you want a full JAA licence then you have to convert

Anyway aside from this issue I was wondering if anyone has been there recently and what the standard of tuition was like and the overall atmosphere?

Any comments from people who have actually trained there recently would be appreciated

I don't want to open up the debate about whether or not they are CAA approved or not as the position with regards to that is fairly clear already


Thanks

[clamb]

I recently trained with them. They took very good care of me and instruction was fantastic. I really think it was worth every penny learning to fly at Long Beach. The training was very comprehensive and I have had no problems flying here in the UK. I was flying in the same airspace with C17s and other heavy commercial aircraft.

I also checked with the CAA and decided to train with UKFT. The CAA verified what UKFT was stating to me was correct.

[Rowardennan]

You wouldn't happen to work for them would you?

Forgive my cynicism but it looks like you'e only made 2 posts and both are praising UK Flight Training

I apologise if you are genuine

But I have my doubts

[dorosenco]

UK Flight Training in Long Beach, CA is NOT AUTHORIZED by the CAA to train for PPL. Anglo-American Academy in San Diego, CA is authorized.

Check the CAA website !
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf page 5

[Rowardennan]

Trouble is that Anglo American in San Diego aren't authorised to issue I-20s to enable you to obtain a student visa

Last time I spoke to them they advised me to travel on a Visa waiver


I would suggest it's easier to convert over to a JAA licence at some point after training elsewere,than it would be to clear up a refused entry on your immigration record

I travel to the states quite a bit so I don't want to be in a grey area when it comes to the INS

Hence at the moment AAA is a non runner for me

[vinil]

I did my PPL at UKFT and got my JAA and FAA PPL with them. They are based at Long Beach airport. They sent me the I20 form needed to obtain a student visa. They do not need to be on the CAA's list to offer a JAA PPL. You can contact the CAA and they will inform you with the details or check with the school.