Worth going to Uni before starting airline career?

[waspie]

Considering that I am only 15, I realise I have a long way to go yet. But, if all goes to plan, I will be leaving school with either a B or C in Physics A level, English Lit B or c, and another subject B or C. What is the general feeling for going to university before going to an airline? Would you advise I go to university and study something which I enjoy, or are there degrees which have something to do with aviation. (Talking about the UK).
Thanks for any info/help,
Mark Wilson

[MikeSamuel]

Would you advise I go to university and study something which I enjoy, or are there degrees which have something to do with aviation.

The way you say it it sounds like aviation and something you enjoy are different things!
I'm sure you don't mean it like that though!
Well, I am starting at Bath Uni doing Aerospace Engineering in September. I'm currently working for a big aerospace company on the Year in Industry.
I would look more closely at both of these things if I were you - (meaning aviation type degrees and the YinI www.yini.org.uk)
They are both excellent oppourtunities to back-up your flying career should things not turn out how you hope.
I've been self-funding my PPL since I was 16, and am still only 1/2 way through, but would recommend if you haven't already to start putting some hours in your logbook if it's possible for you to do so.
It's not going to be easy, in the current climate at least for you to go straight into flying for a living after A Levels, and although things may have cleared up by the time you reach this stage, there are still going to be plenty of degree level qualified pilots looking for airline work.
As often said, airlines aren't the be all and end all of flying, look at all the routes into commercial operations, talk to people in the know, find out as much about the job as you can (while you still have plenty of free time on your hands - A Levels are still HARD no matter what any newspapers try to say).
First and foremost, don't lose sight of the short term goals - good GCSEs, and A Levels will leave you with many more oppourtunities when you get to 18.
Best of Luck

Mike :)

[waspie]

Lol, no, I didnt mean it like that! Im sure you know what I meant though.
Thanks,
Mark

[scroggs]

This debate has been held many, many times before. If you try a search on 'university' or 'degree', I'm sure you will get much of what you are looking for.

The crux of the matter is whether flying is your overriding ambition, or whether it is just one of a number of careers you would consider. If the former, then a degree is not necessary but it may be useful - particularly if your flying plans don't work out. If the latter, then a degree is probably essential, but which course you take will depend on the other careers that you may be considering.

Flying - airline or military - does not require a degree of any kind in the UK. Other careers that may interest you may well do. The usefulness of a degree to the dedicated flying wannabe is only that it may make him slightly more attractive to an airline at the time of selection. The subject is totally irrelevant.

However, if you wish to either consider other careers, or to have a back-up plan for failing to get a flying job, you'd be wise to have a qualification that you can usefully take elsewhere. Law, engineering (of any kind), computer studies, music, and accountancy are all examples of qualifications that could provide an alternative source of income. So is plumbing, as WWW is fond of saying - and if you decide to fund your own way through training, you'd be well advised to get a qualification in a practical skill to earn decent money in your non-flying time.

Do that search. Think long and hard about why you want that degree and what you intend to do with it. Don't attempt a degree that you won't enjoy - which means getting as much information as possible about the courses you think you might like to do. If you decide that a degree is not the way ahead, go and get an alternative skill that will keep a roof over your head while you learn to fly.

And look long and hard at the airline industry and be very sure that it's where you want to earn your living before you commit to spending £60,000 on your course!

Scroggs

[niknak]

Go for the degree first, then the aviation career.
If aviation doesnt like you, or you dont like it, you'll then have something to fall back on.
The only caveats I would add are;
1 - Make sure that the degree is mainstream enough to further your career outside your initial asperations, i.e. 4 years studying poetry and welding techniques won't get you all that far in the real world.
2 - Start saving now, or find a rich benefactor, either career option is going to cost you a fortune.

Good Luck.

[FREDA]

As your only 15, its wise to keep the idea of uni as a target for now, but closer to the time, when your doing the A levels and its time to fill out the dredded UCAS form (if they still use those) then dont do what i did and fall into the sausage factory mentality and think you absolutely have to go. I started a thread called Education Fatigue, if you have a read of that you can see the problems you could make for youself if you just follow the crowd to uni. luckily for me ive just got a place on a sponsored training scheme in my final year at uni so ive downgraded my degree to a HND with the oppurtunity to come back and finish it later, so miracles can happen.

[GodisMyCopilot]

I have been there mate!I am currently at Uni in my final year. I have had a fantastic time and the experences I have had are only going to increase my chances of getting a pilot job somewhere. Go to Uni and join a University Air Squadron, they pay you to fly and you do some much other cool stuff. A UAS is by far the best "beginer" flying course out there allowing you to do stuff that you will never do in an Airline!And once you see what real flying ie military flyiing is like you will want to joint the RAF!

There are also gliding clubs and the such to join at uni, I must admit I have spent more time at uni flying than studying! It was one of the reasons that I went to uni for, to FLY!

Clear Skies

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Scroggs - you know better than to get me started on the subject of plumbers! Living like Kings they are... dribble... mutter... moan <sounds of straight jacket being hastily taken out of wardrobe by Miss Welshman>...

Its very difficult to offer meaningful advice in this situation. All one can ever do is look back at ones own history and wish how you could have done it differently. This is unlikely to prove a valid excuse to recommend a particular route.

All I would say is that on balance I think there is a lot of pressure to go to Univeristy these days. It is important to explore all options thoroughly before deciding upon a path and to do this you will have to resist for a time the pressure to go to Uni.

On the bright side. Being 15 at the moment is an advantage. Even if you do get started in aviation at the very earliest opportunity and forgoe Higher Education it will still be 4 years before you need to apply to the airlines.

Which could be about right :(

WWW

[IcarusGR]

Well I can relate very much to this topic. Right now I am 17 years old turning 18 years old in April. It is my last year in High School and I do have plans to become a airline pilot. Now I am living in the United States and in order to get your major airline job you need a 4 year degree ( This is mandatory unlike UK or some other European nations). Well a few months ago I had to think to myself what I would do to get to the cockpit. I decided to go to Flight School (FLIGHT SAFETY IN FLORIDA) first get my CIME and CFII with a future plan to enroll into a UNI right after the Flight School and instruct at the same time to build my hours. This will most likely get me a job faster and at a younger age. The only problem with this is that you will need a lot of money. Flight Safety is a very expensive school but the training is outstanding and of course its in Florida where the weather is good :). You are still 15 years old and you have a lot of time to think. Getting a College degree is necessary in the US but not in Europe. But think about it, the more you have the more you can compete.

[brain fade]

no.....................

[akshaym84]

I as in a similar position a few years ago. I'm 18 now and hoping to go to uni after my gap year. I chose the uni option because it's a good experience, with the possibility of a UAS to join, and all the fun! Seriously,though, concentrate on getting good grades, and have fun. The airline industry, like any other market, will sort itself out and things will be good when you're ready to train (thats what I'm hoping for myself anyway). Plus it will give you something to write about when applying. Good luck.

[stargazer02]

Did you ever think of going to Embry Riddle in Daytona Beach it's an aeronautical uni. They incorporate flying and your degree and when finished you can instruct there...pretty much a comprehensive way to go. All the courses are recognised by the major US airlines.....
speaking from experience....the US majors require you to hold a 4yr accredited degree....so check out which ones they recognise otherwise you may not qualify.

[IcarusGR]

stargazer

I actually did look into Embry Riddle, but the thing that took my mind away was that I have a instructor job waiting for me in New York. I also rather be closer to home at the moment, and it will save me a bunch of money.

[tunneler]

waspie, this is a very good discussion and think I'll add my experiences into it!

I went to uni for a couple of years, hated every single minute of it (BEng in Avionics) - then with great fortitude the oportunity arose for me to go and do an Integrated ATPL course. I did that and graduated, had a fantastic time, fell in love with flying even more than I thought ever possible and came out owing £50k. Now in the EXTREMELY lucky position of about to start flying in the RHS of the A320. I have nothing to fall back on if I lose my medical etc, (apart from insurance obviously) but I can quite honestly say that I am the happiest camper ever!

On the flip side of things, one of my colleagues from the university stayed on, worked exceptionally hard and got a First Class Honours degree in the same subject I was studying - seriously clever and likeable chap. Has been out of the uni for almost a year now, and has had ONE interview. This is someone who has got a brilliant and quite rare degree, and who cannot get anything other than a bar job at the moment. It would seem that the aerospace engineering job market is even worse than the pilot job market at present.

If you are going to do a degree it may be wise to consider something that.....
a) you will enjoy doing - I thought that any aero eng course would be fun and interesting, wasnt for me sadly. From what I can gather from other Aero Eng graduates theres a helluva lot of rather boring and tedious work that you have to plough through and perhaps not that much "fun" stuff.

b) has reasonable employment prospects afterwards so you can earn some cash, hopefully the aero eng market will pick up (think the situation out in the Gulf may actually help that end of things) but it is definately worth considering IT or some other degree where there are definately jobs.

Now I know my views may get shot down but I think that you shouldn't feel that you "have" to go to university, not everyone at my flying school did and there was no obvious difference in the learning or flying capabilities.

Just a side note - if/when you do qualify as a Commercial Pilot, and are lucky enough to find yourself in the RHS of a jet. You may actually have enough spare time on your hands to do an open university degree if you really desire to - a good friend of mine is going down that road at the moment and I must confess that when I'm settled and happy in the new job I may very well do something similar.

Ok, think I've rattled on enough. Best of luck in whatever you do mate, be it academia or aviation, theres a load of fun to be had out there either way :)

All the best.

Tunny.

[BigGreenPleasureMachine]

Steady on Tunny, you've only had one interview as well. Just 'cos I can't do that funny handshake that you boys know so well......

Seriously, though, tunny makes a very good point about having a fall back, and at the moment that doesn't mean aero eng (unless he means the bru..).

If you do intend to do a degree, do it in something you are genuinely interested in, and do bear in mind that aero degrees are a lot of physics and maths with a powdering of 'real' aerospace stuff on the top. Also bear in mind that bachelor's degrees are no longer accredited, ie you need a masters now to get chartered.

Since you're still but a slip of a lad, I would advise that you do some work experience in all areas that interest you, aviation or otherwise and work hard and enjoy yourself at school, by the time they kick you out with an a-level or three, you'll hopefully be a lot clearer on your best path.

oh, and do some flying if you can afford it, you'll soon know if you have to do it....I had my first bash (in a jetranger) comparatively recently, and wish I had gotten up there a long time ago...ah, for a class one and a big bank loan....

ps, tunny, I think you mean fortuitously, unless you found the atpl really scary....

[Andrew M]

I myself are in your position - 16 and want to fly commercially.

My advice is to get a back-up career because a job in aviation isn't guaranteed - far from.

You will also need to get finance to pay for your training. Therefore whilest working + training at the same time you will be learning to fly via the modular route.

This involves getting a PPL and building up hours. Then you do your CPL and Instrument Rating etc....

Contact me for more info:)

[Ricardo82]

Untill you do any flying, no matter how obssessed you are; you won't really know if you are even capable of flying. some have it and some don't.
i was in the same situation as you, obsessed but not sure what to do.
therefore i went and got my PPL. Firstly so that it might help me get onto airline sponsorship and secondly to see if i was capable.
On leaving school in 2001, 9/11 happened and BA etc stopped everything.
There was no option but to go to uni, i started a degree in Air Transport Management at Loughborough Uni, it was great and i even got to experience the uni air squadron. It taught me that the RAF wasn't for me and i later thought after my first year that even with a degree i would still be in the same position as before.
and with a massive debt.
I finally decided to stop uni and self sponsor myself. I'm lucky in the fact that i have the money to do it.
I'm now training with BAESystems in Jerez.
Once i have my ATPL i can't see how a degree would help me.
It all depends on the shape of the industry.
i would say that for sponsorship a degree is pretty much vital due to the number of applicants.
You really have to decide what is best for you.

Good luck:ok: