study hours for ATPL's

[empty pockets]

hey,

i am due to go into the big wide world of work soon (scary!) and hope to combine my flight training with a graduate job to pay my way. i was just wondering what the 'average' time needed to put into the ATPL exams are - just a rough guide would do.

i know a lot of it will be to do with my aptitude for the subjects etc. but I just need to know whether I should be saving all my accrued holidays for exam time or studying in the evenin/weekends and using holidays for hour building and currency flights.

cheers.


i would be interested if anyone has a thread on combining work and flight training as i still havent much of a clue about timescales and how to fit the training round holidays (think i get about 40 days per year - not inc. weekends). also - how do you fit it in without letting your employer know you dont really wanna work there? (i'm a bad liar!)

[Luke Wingwalker]

Cant speak for distance learning, but with the residential I was in the class room from 0830 to1700, then home for 2-3 hours work each evening, and then all day sundays, and some on saturdays as well. Rather a lot but it seemed to work :cool:

[abracadabra]

You need a solid understanding of the basic principles behind each subject, and you need to keep revising those principles. The fine details and memorization of facts can be studied effectively in the couple of months leading up to the exams, but you'll get nowhere if you don't understand what you're studying.

Dunno what others will say, but you can't put a figure on how much studying is required, except to say that it's ALOT. You need to live and beathe each subject, think about them constantly, and question yourself on everything, finding answers to those you're not 100% sure of.

I'd say that if you're not on a structured course you probably have to put in even more hours just because you're not immersed in it all every day.

I wouldn't give up your holidays unless they're very close to exam time. But definitely take your notes with you wherever you go.

hope that helps

abracadabra

[jthall]

i'm on a residential course at the mo - about 5 weeks into it.
Personnally i'm glad i didnt attempt a residential course - i dont think i've got the right personal attributes to do it - i.e. motivation to go to work for 9 hours then come home and work for another 4 hours!!!
At present (and considering things will get more intense) i'm am in lectures from 830 till 4pm every day and then working about 3 hours every night . i'm also trying to hold down a part time job. i've already reduced my hours from 9 p/w to 6p/w (doesnt seem alot- but it has helped!)

Bearing in mind, about 3 on my course (out 14) have already shelled out £2500 on distant courses and couldnt cope and then shelled out a further £6000 (inlc accom) on the residential course; i believe you have got to fully motivated to hold down a full time job and study for ATPL. Of course, people do manage it - so dont be put off by me.

of course - my results will be the proof - in todays flying environment (i.e. job prospects) - it is also worth considering that airlines will choose a candidate with all first time passes against someone with a few attempts - Statistically residential courses have a higher first time pass rate than distance courses (i think) - so if things dont improve you could find yourself at the back of the list of for potential jobs.... Just a small point but worth bearing in mind!!

anyway that is my input - good luck to all studying/ taking ATPL theory at the mo!!!

[LOOP2STAND1]

I work shifts which has worked really well with my distance learning course. I basically have 2 shifts 0600 - 1330 or 1330 - 2100. I live really close to work & this allows me to put in around 6 hrs a day.

But it is a hard slog and if I could've I would've gone for residential. I have just completed my first 8 exams awaiting results. It took me about 5 months to get through the first lot. and I expect about 4 months for the next lot.

Good luck with it mate!

[FlyingForFun]

Pockets,

It took me exactly 12 months. I studied almost every weekend, as well as a couple of nights a week after work. The quoted figure, I think, is 750 hours minimum, of which 10% must be on a brush-up course. I think that sounds pretty reasonable as a minimum, but because I didn't keep track of how many hours I studied each day, I can't be sure - but obviously the more hours you put in each week, the quicker you'll finish.

As to fitting in around work, this is tricky, but not impossible. Do a search and you should find some information - I know I've posted on the subject several times recently. 40 days a year is a hell of a lot of holiday - 8 weeks! With most schools, you'll need 6 weeks holiday for the ATPL exams - 2 lots (one per module) of 2 weeks for brush-up and 1 week for exams. After that, you'll be looking at a CPL, which can be done in 3 weeks if you go somewhere where the weather is reliable. I haven't researched any further than that yet, but I'd guess with the huge holiday allowance you've got, you should be able to have an ATPL(f) within 18 months of finishing your exams without any trouble.

Good luck!

FFF
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[redbar1]

Hi,
Just for info
The hrs req. in JAR-FCL are:

Integrated ATPL course - 750hrs, within 12-36 months.

Modular ATPL - 650 within 18 months, with following possibilities for reductions:
Holder of CPL/IR - reduce by 350 hrs
Holder of CPL or IR - reduce by 200 hrs

Unfortunately, this is all only absolute minimums. To assimilate the ATPL syllabus in a "real" and thorough manner requires much more than 750 hrs of study. Remember that the above numbers are for INSTRUCTION, no home study included.:eek: So, if you do distance learning, this should give an indication...

But if you want it, you'll fix it. :ok: Good luck!

[parris50]

I did mine in 8 months but I really had to dedicate my self to it. It is a lot of work and requires a single minded approach.

I managed to hold my job down a t the same time and used holiday only for the brush up courses and the exams. Yes it's a lot of work but not impossbile!

[badattitude781]

Hi,

The amount of study required seemed to vary from person to person on my course.

When I was on the Integrated course I used to have class from 8:45 - 4pm and then did about 3-4hrs study in the evening. Then I'd do a few hours over the weekend. That just about kept me on top of the work.
However, some of the other people on the course (who were rather brighter than me) were able to get away with an hour a night and still breeze through the exams.

Its all worthwhile in the long run!

[Desk-pilot]

I'm grateful to those of you who have already replied but frankly I'm even more confused. Lets take OATS as an example. Classroom study runs for 5 months and a second block of 3 months so that's 8 months in total, during which time you spend 6 hours in a classroom and according to some of you 3 hrs a night and several hours at the weekend which makes say 35 weeks at 52 hours a week totalling 1700 hours approx.

Those of you who studied around a full time job presumably did around 4 hrs a day - lets say 7 days a week which is only 28 hrs a week, yet you clearly all managed to complete the course and pass in between 8 and 12 months. Let's say 40 weeks at 28 hours a week totalling 1100 hours approx

There seems to be a big discrepancy here in terms of hours studied!

Is it perhaps that sitting in the classroom is less effective for learning things than sitting quietly at home?

One other question - at Uni I always enjoyed the stuff I had to understand rather than memorise - I hated just remembering facts blindly. How much of the ATPL is about understanding and how much is learning by wrote?

Thanks,

Desk-pilot

[Send Clowns]

The distance learning time is obviously decided by the individual student, and his or her ability. Those who have posted here have been reasonably quick, others do take longer. I know FFF for one is bright and able. In any case most people who choose distance learning are somewhat academic, whereas the classroom can have a complete spectrum.

The classroom time for a full-time course is about 650 hours. This is also the recommended minimum for distance learning, with minimum 65 hours classroom (all courses I know, including the one I will be teaching, are around 120 hours in the classroom).

I learn in the same way as you, by understanding but hating rote learning. I sat all the exams in 2000, from a full-time course. I found most of the subjects relatively easy, achieving good grades with, to be frank, less work than recommended by the school of an evening (I am lazy). However I still did a fair amount, and a lot was down to previous experience (a numerate degree and previous flight groundschool) and academic aptitude and I still struggled with a few subjects.

You will find there is some "bulk learning" required, which was where I struggled, especially in Law, part of Systems and in Ops Procedures as well as the climatology section of Met. For the last of these I developed the technique of reading for ten minutes in bed every evening. This not only got me a very high mark but solved my sleep problem (I am not kidding, it is great for this. It's so boring).

Best of luck!

Send Clowns
Gen Nav / Flt Plng instructor
BCFT

[Desk-pilot]

Send Clowns,

Appreciate your answer - and your candour! I'm intrigued - how much study did you actually find it took in the evenings on a full time course? All my academic life I was told I should spend hours studying at night and I never did anything like as much as they said I should but managed to get through by concentrating in the lessons and cramming at the end.

Just curious how much time students like me should expect to have to spend in the evenings, although I realise the course will be extremely demanding I'm contemplating commuting 50miles each way and B&B ing 2-3 nights a week nearer the FTO - I need to ensure my plan is manageable.

Are you chaps at Bournemouth considering offering any kind of Integrated yet btw? Any feelings on the employment situation would be welcomed too.

Best regards,

Desk-pilot

[Send Clowns]

Hahaha, well you seem to be very much like me. Well, taking into account that I had been through about 4 months of military groundschool over the previous few years, and have a degre in hard science so am numerate, I did around an hour or so a night, usually consolidation on the day's work. More work of course towards the exams. I ended up with a 90% average, including the 73% in law :O . Passed that on the resit, to finish within the usual 6 months.

Now I don't advocate that regime for all students. You must make sure you keep up with the lessons, and know and understand the material covered, but there is no need to flog it to death.

No plans for integrated here, and to be honest I can't see it happening. There is no benefit to the student (in fact the course leaves graduates with fewer hours), and it costs a lot more to run, costs that are passed on to the student. If our students want to work full-time, they are welcome to start here as early as PPL, go through our structured hour building and our groundschool onto CPL and IR without a break. This is our deliberate policy of a course that feels integrated but at the cost of modular training. Most modular schools will arrange such a course for you or help you to arrange it yourself. It is a common way of training, and in fact how I achieved my fATPL at SFT.

The advantage is flexibility, including choice of what to do when, and the choice to change FTOs in the middle, if you are not satisfied or find better value elsewhere.

Employment situation is definitely improving. Not long ago all ads and all jobs I heard about asked for "with type rating and x hours on type". Then it was "with type rating", now often "x hours minimum (usually 1000 or 1500)". When the war ends we may see further improvements.