Saudi Aramco - all you need to know about it (threads merged)

[Jav]

Does anyone know the address of Aramco's flight department in Saudi Arabia? If anyone can help me out with this it would be much appreciated.
Jav

[DownIn3Green]

Try www.aeps.com. (http://www.aeps.com.) They're hiring thru them right now. Interviews are in Houston, USA.

[Jav]

Thank you very much DownIn3Green. Appreciate it.
Jav

[james707]

DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS COMPANY LIKE BASE, PAY , INFO ?

[ExSimGuy]

ARabian AMerican oil CO

They are based on the East (Gulf) coast of Saudi. Now entirely Saudi-owned I believe, but used to be (still may be) one of the highest payers in these parts (that's in general, not specifically for aircrew)

I'm not sure but I think they operate mainly "biz-jet" equipment out of Dahran or their own fields.

Accomodation is likely to be in their own "mini-city" at Dahran which, in the days of American joint-ownership, used to be a "place apart" in Saudi (women driving, pig in the shops etc) but has gotten rather more Saudi-ised nowadays. Always used to be regarded as one of the best places to be for an Expat in Saudi. Due to their being the source of most of the country's income, they do not usualy suffer from the chronic "cash shortages" that have been a problem in the country at times.

Any Saudi-Aramco pilots out there reading who can give more specific info?

------------------
Flight Sims, very expensive toys - but real fun to play with!

[Ultra]

Wanting to send application to Aramco Aviation and would like some names, addresses and general conditions, etc.

Please reply here or direct to email..
Thanks...

[CONVAIR]

Check Aramcoservices.com which is very comprehensive. They are looking for 737 pilots at the moment. The ASC section has the pilot jobs and resumes go through Houston,(Texas). Good luck.

[alapt]

Can anybody shed light on this company?
I Would like to return to the Middle East.

Regards,

Keep the blue side up

[Randy_g]

Try going to their jobs site:

http://www.jobsataramco.com

Lists job available, compensation, benefits, etc. Big oil company with very deep pockets.

Cheers

Randy_G


If you can't stand the heat...

then turn up the air conditioner !! :)

[aristotle]

Randy_g,

I agree that Saudi Aramco is a big company....however they do not have deep pockets anymore. I just left the company a few months ago. Things have changed a lot.

Regards.

[crazy_max]

Hey ARISTOTLE?
Who are you?.......RO? AB? JN?

Aramco is OK, not much flying, good housing, good airplanes......But then there are other things......

[Tailstand]

Hi everyone,

Can someone please forward some details on how to contact Saudi ARAMCO.

Cheers

TS

[mutt]

ARAMCO SERVICES COMPANY
9900 West Loop South Houston, TX 77096
Tel: no calls
Fax: none
Email: none
Web Site: http://www.jobsataramco.com


Mutt http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/guin.gif

[DownIn3Green]

Check out:

http://www.Climbto350.com

ARAMCO has several current ads.

PS-How's it going Mutt?

[mutt]

Not bad at all DI3G, when are you guys coming back down this way?

Mutt.

[DownIn3Green]

Mutt,

Not sure, something may be cooking for July.

Last plane (not you know who's) was in such bad shape maint wise I think they're parting it out.

I heard the ultimatum has been laid down to you know who re: you know what, and the US Embassy in you know where (the Sr. Communications Director, to be exact)will handle the situation next week if you know what doesn't electroniclly go you know where by next Friday.

By the way, I have applied to ARAMCO. They apparently are looking for all sorts of fixed wing and rotary drivers. Is it for real, or are they just building a database?

Hope to see you soon.

[mutt]

DI3G,

You need to send me a code book for that message! :)

I really dont know about Aramco, they are advertising a lot, but dont appear to be increasing their fleet? Anyone else know whats going on in DHA?

If you are really interested in coming back this way, I would suggest applying to Netjets or MidEast Jets. MEJ are supposed to be getting a number of BBJ's.

All the best.

Mutt http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/PNTSAce.gif

[mutt]

Lots of Aramco ads on the net these days, but I'm not sure if there are actually any new jobs!

It appears that the present crewing company have lost the contract, a couple of new companies are bidding for the replacement contract, hence the advertisements. I'm not sure if the present incumbents of the jobs will just remain with the new company.

Rgds.

Mutt.

[This message has been edited by mutt (edited 25 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by mutt (edited 25 June 2001).]

[Blue Orion]

Can anyone currently working for Aramco as a Captain on the 737 disclose how much $$$$$ they take home. Thanks, it makes the world go around. I presume accomodation etc. is provided FOC.

[DownIn3Green]

ARAMCO is back on 350 again today looking for fixed wing pilots.

They must be building a data base because they don't seem to be hiring anyone.

[StallWarning]

Hi Folks,

Do you guys know which and how many aircrafts are operated by ARAMCO, how many pilots are they employing and what are the experience requirements to be apply??

Thanks

[mutt]

Changed to..... www.jobsataramco.com

They also advertise on www.climbto350.com whenever its required.

I guess that i will go the full 9 yards and save you the bother of checking the website..... they are only advertising for this position.

aviation

Identical job titles may have different experience requirements.
Please review each job title in your area of expertise.

Sr. Spec. A&P Technician



Mutt.

[StallWarning]

Thanks,

but impossible to connect to their web site, the access is restrected (a password is required)...........

[StallWarning]

So, anybody with some informations or these compay is totally unknown???:D

[Yawdamp]

Good company from what i've heard they pay well if your an ex pat and have some good hardwear to cruise about in with the only downer being most of the flying is within kingdom. They also employ from all corners of the world. I tryed to go through Aramco in the states and had no joy so called them in Dammam and had much better luck. Don't have the number with me, sorry. They have a new C.P these days and he's a local but a very nice guy.

[ironbutt57]

need an faa atp, with some experience in at least one of their types, dhc-8, dhc-6, b737NG, g-4, hs 125, and turbine ag-plane, (tailwheel time)....without 4-year degree..you can get hired as "consultant" many nationalities employed.....all the above subject to change

[kkb]

Anyone got inside info on the company? What' it like to fly for them? Facilities, etc....
Also, what is the current mood or climate considering Bush Jr. ramblings about Iraq? Thanks for the info folks!

[kkb]

Thanks for the PM regarding this. I'll PM the dude you recommeded and get the info. Yes, I'm mostly r.w., but am rated in all classes of airplanes too. The job is for the r.w. though.

[Fructose]

Don't do it. You will be sorry. You cannot consider it a career move. The money is compelling, but it will not make up for the sacrifices and isolation and racism and restrictions and dirtiness and disappointment and desperation and frustration and unhappiness that would soon take over your life. Read each of those words again and think about them. The company is a total mess, none of the pilot-type professional lifestyle perks exist, and still it's getting worse every week. Don't do it for any price. It will ruin your life more than you can imagine. No hesitation: Just say no.

[mutt]

Fructose,

Is that based on personal experience or hearsay?

I have a number of ex-colleagues flying there who actually enjoy the job.

Mutt.

[ironbutt57]

Think it depends a lot on if you are a "consultant" (two year contractor) or a full time employee (university degree required)....have friends on both sides...two very different situations...but both are content.

[MamboBaas]

I too have several friends there employed as 'consultants' and they say their deal sucks compared with what the permanent guys get, despite the fact that the 'consultants' do all the flying and the permanents do all the golfing.
The money as a 'consultant' is not that wonderful and if that's what you've been offered you'd get around the same pay, better flying and a much better quality of life with either Gulf Helicopters or Abu Dhabi Aviation. Several guys who left the Emirates returned after only a short time with Saudi Aramco.

[Panama Jack]

Has anybody here worked/currently work as a pilot for Saudi Aramco?

[SASless]

Was lured there on a "Consultant" contract.....not there anymore.

[c3000]

Does anyone have any insight into the aviation division of Saudi Aramco? Especially the cabin services aspect ie. how many crew currently in Saudi?, key cabin services personnel, opportunities etc.

Feel free to PM me and thanks in advance,


Regards,

C3000

[c3000]

No one with some info?

Throw me a bone here!

[mickoa]

Hi c3000

Best thing to do is ring the recruitment department direct and ask to speak to a Mr Gerry Fitzgerald he will be able to tell you if there are any opportunities going. You can go to the website however the employment section is still under construction.

All the aircraft are 737 and basically used for all the head honchos over there. Hope this helps.

Mickoa

[mutt]

All the aircraft are 737 and basically used for all the head honchos over there

Are you sure??? Always thought that the DC8 and Gulfstreams were for the "head honchos", the B737's are in a normal passenger configuration and operate a shuttle service around Saudi for employees.

c3000, if by cabin services your are talking about working down the back, i think that you would be better off looking at their VIP operations and not the B737's. Different contract and i believe totally different benefit packages..


Mutt.

[Flap Sup]

Whom to ctc in saudiAramco for a position as F/O??

Anyone?

/Flap Sup

[Luke SkyToddler]

Gidday all

Can anyone enlighten me on the pay package, t&c's at Saudi Aramco?

Would also be interested in anyone's opinion on how secure the jobs are, and what the general feeling is towards expats in the current political climate ... chances of making it out alive and all that?

[edited to say, this is a query about fixed wing flying not rotary, I believe they're looking for DHC8 and B737 crew at present]

[dustrat]

Luke,

For the first period you will be hired under a freelance contract.
The conditions are:
10 weeks on 3 weeks off. Salary for the 737NG is:
Ffrom 5000 to 7500 dollars for an FO plus 19 dollars per-diem.
For a captain. up to 8500 a month plus per diem.
U won't be paid during that off period. They are paying 2500us as travel allowance. Any thing you woll save on top of it is for ur pocket.
When on duty, you will fly around 4 days a week.
Living in their componds where 12000 other employees live.
Very good living conditions.
This contractor period can be long and MIGHT never end up in a full time position.*If you get lucky you will be offered a permanent contract.
Then, things improves greatly.
Permanently based in Damman, you can have your family with you.
The salary is based on 3 different sector scale. US, Euro^pean and others.
As a european you woould be paid a gross figure as a captain around the 10500 euro a month all inclusive.
Scholl is paid for.
Roound trip ticket a year home.
Aramco is a great company to work for, but under their permanent scheme. On the contractor period it is a bit of an abuse as you have no idea how long it will carry on for.
But they need pilots, so it might worth it.
Their chirf pilot, Ahmed Hubaishi is a real good guys but has very high standards level.

...
Any specs just don't hesitate.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Thanks dustrat, that's exactly the information I was looking for :ok:

[crazy_max]

Hey Dustrat,

Not sure who you are, but the only thing I can agree with you there is that Capt. Hubaishi is a nice guy. He really is a nice guy.
But working there is not really a good idea.

Cheers

[Luke SkyToddler]

Why's that max? Dish the dirt mate ...

I do want to hear the bad as well as the good, my wife reckons it's a mad idea anyway, so if it is dodgy then I'd rather find out now than when I've signed on the dotted line :(

Why are they recruiting now anyway, are some of the expats finding all these attacks on western compounds a bit too hot to handle?

[geo2gambler]

Hello guys,

Can anyone please give details that what kind of airline is this ? and what kind of people they are looking for ?

Thanks

Geo2gambler

[mutt]

Geo2,

Its not an airline as such, but the corporate side of the Saudi Aramco oil company. It transports employees to various destinations within Saudi Arabia.

I believe that their company and VIP fleets are different, therefore B737's dont leave Saudi Arabia.... ALthough considering that they are selling their DC8, this may have changed.


Mutt.

[crazy_max]

Hi Mutt..

Nope, B737's not going out of kingdom.
The DC8 is being sold or has been.....Because a brand new B767-200ER has been purchased (N767A)...

Luke, my advise would be that if you have a decent job stay there...Trust me..
If you dont have a job, or a bad one....then go for it...
Expats in Dhahran are worried of course, but that hasnt made them leave in flocks, at least no the pilots. Quite a few Saudi pilots did jump ship in the past year and a half. Why? Hummm..
Not sure, maybe somebody should ask AAD.

Cheers..

[mkmoz]

Anyone out there with recent news regarding the Aramco flight department ? Any information with regard to schedule, work conditions, upgrades would be greatly appreciated.

[crazy_max]

Dont do it, just don't.

[Nevrekar]

I flew for ARAMCO from 1997-1999. I was an F/O on the B-737-200 and Capt on the DHC-6 and CE-500. Lot of changes there now. All Management pilots are now mostly Saudi. Flew around 50-60 hrs a month. 10 days off a month on average. I left to get on with a major airline in the States. Good housing and benefits.
Saudi living is very different than Dubai or elsewhere. Their fleet now has : 1 767 (Houston based) 5 737-700's 3 DHC-8's, 2 DHC-6's, 2 Hawkers, 1 CE-500 and about 20 Helos.

[mooguy]

I was a flight attendant there til july, and was about to quit/get fired, but as I ended up getting married anyway that took care of my decision as F/a's not allowed to be married.

Having worked in EK years ago, and many other much more prestigious companies-in a word dont do it!

Housing is crap, you feel like you are in some banal american town in nowheresville, but surrounded by every natioanlity under the sun.

The managers and chief pilots change non stop, people come and go and its pretty dirty politics all round, i heard it was once a good comp, but I wouldnt touch it with a bargpole now if i were you.

If you search in backdialogues, you will find overwhelming bad raps against this particular company......beware

[knowlimits]

Revolving-door 'management', policies and procedures dominated by political/tribal infighting within the department, TOTAL lack of informatiion exchange between employer/employee (actually actively discouraged), no hope for upgrade, total lack of CRM and to cap it all off the reality of living in THE most repressive country in the world...hell, come on over! It's paradise!

Just don't say you weren't warned.

[irflyer]

Does anyone have any info on Aramco and the working condition there?

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Do you mean working for the company's shuttle air service, or in general?

[irflyer]

I meant, their Aviation service.

[Nevrekar]

I worked for Saudi ARAMCO aviation from 1997-1999. I flew the B-737, DHC-6 & CE-500. They were once considered a great organization to work for. Now things have changed quite a bit and I am hearing that it isnt that great anymore. All major top management is now Saudi as opposed to expats. Chief Pilot is Saudi. Good pay and compensation package. Housing is subsidized and you have no utilities. Schools are great. On camp living is like anyplace in the U.S. But when you leave the gates---you know you are not! Also consider the dangers of living there now as an expat. Abqaiq was just attacked on Friday. ARAMCO planes fly all over SA to these places. PM me if you have any other direct questions. They require a B.S. degree and about 4000 hrs. Plus time in any of the A/C they fly is a plus. Here are their minimum requirements:

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS:
Education: Four-year B.S./B.A. degree or 3000 flying hours. Valid Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate issued by the U.S. FAA to operate single and multi engine aircraft. First Class FAA Medical.
Experience: 8 years active flying. Minimum 4000 flight hours as a pilot and 7 years of active flying. Excellent command of written and oral English. 1000 hours as a Pilot in Command.

DUTIES/RESPONSIBILITIES:
Fly as a Captain on Saudi Aramco Dash-8 or Executive Jet aircraft for the purpose of conducting special or scheduled flight for corporate purposes.

[Nevrekar]

Babalulu check your PM

[pltskiracer]

Anybody know anything about this company. Is it a good place to work??

[DownIn3Green]

A friend of mine was (maybe still is) one of their Captains on their DC-8, but I think they've upgraded that to a B-767 or A-300...anyway, he loves it...great pay, schedule, crew, etc...

[wastafarian]

woop woop . . . pull up!!!! :eek:

do a search of the word "aramco" on this forum to balance out things with less than positive reviews.

[Nevrekar]

I worked there from 1997-1999. It was great then but I hear things are now different, and not as positive. The management is now mostly Saudi although many of the pilots are expats. To the best of my knowledge they are still partial to hiring U.S and Canadians.

They offer an excellent pay package, housing, vacation etc. F/O's can expect to make 70-80K USD taxfree. Capts probably 120K. The fleet consists of 737-700's, DHC-8's, CE-550, DHC-6, Hawkers, GIV's. The 767 is based in Houston. You can find openings and minimum requirements at www.jobsataramco.com.

Negatives include management indifference (I'm told), living in Saudi and the constant threat of terrrorism (Abqaig-recently). Think hard if you have a family and plan to go there.

[fly_guy100]

Can a US citizen male apply to be a flight attendant? I went on the website and it didnt give me much info. It only gave info about a supervisor flight attendant position.

[Nevrekar]

The general "unwritten policy" when I was there was that the only male F/A's hired were on the Boeing aircraft and they were all from the third world. They had one male Canadian management type there. The 737's stayed in the kingdom. For all the other flights that involved the ministers or royals, all the F/A's were female. No exceptions.

[Riggwelter]

I've been there for several years and am very, very happy. True there are problems as you will note in other threads, things that will make you frustrated but as far as the important stuff goes Aramco has it all in Spades. Allow me to elaborate.

Terms and Endearment: Pay is based on Nationality. If you're an American or Canadian you are on the money train, no one else in the region comes remotely close, bar none. In this category money is very good, school is free, heath beni's are comprehensive, tickets home, and vacation time are industry leading. However, Aramco's pay scheme really shows it's legs if you stick around for a while. For example, an American can get retirement benifits after 10 years of service(and age 50). If you're UK, Ozzie, or Kiwi, it's o.k. to pretty good, the moneys fair but as I understand the benefits are not as generous as US/Canadian/Saudi. If you're Asian or "other arab" you can probably do better elsewhere in the region.

Accomodations: Aramco's Dhahran compound is about 10 square miles in area, very green, and is composed of 2,200 homes in 65 different configurations(about 15 major types and variations thereof). It's definitely not the most luxurious in Saudi but it's like a good suburb in Arizona, the big bonus is it's huge (several thousand families and bachelors together) and the facilities are second to none, pick an activity and you can most likely do it.10 soccer fields, 40 tennis courts, several pools, full gyms, wood shop, car shop (both industrial grade and virtually free to use), bowling alley, library, cafeteria and snack bars, dozens of playgrounds, skateboard park, green 18 hole golf course ,bmx track, Horse stables, Yacht club, art complex, and on and on, really too much to list. The houses are in great shape and mx is free and overall pretty good. Most parents agree that the compound is a fantastic place to raise a young family. As a bachelor it's got great facilities but lacks the more vibrant social life of a place like Manama or Dubai.

The job: With the exception of VIP flights in the G-IV( soon to be G-550) you will be home virtually every night. You will fly 3-6 times a week and usually the duty day is 5-8 hours, though there are a couple of longer flights. Earliest flight starts around 5:30 am and last flight arrives around midnight. The Dash 8 and B 737 are basically busses that commute between the cities and the remote oil sites. 3-6 legs a day with 40 minute legs are the average. We also do "special operations" which is basically photo survey in a ce-550 and oil spill dispersal lin an AT-802 (cropduster), we also conduct medi vac and the very occasional SAR flights in the Dash 8. The VIP stuff is called "Special Flights" and is typical VIP stuff; on call alot and when you go lots of sitting around and waiting, having said that Special Flights also fly the least of all the aircrews (100-200 hours per year as opposed to 500 for everyone else). The equipment in every fleet is absolutely top notch (HUD, EGPWS, FMC, Big engines, etc.) and MX is overall very good. Suffice to say that while you're mostly stuck in Saudi it will be the most diverse flying you'll find under one company.

As with most places, if you want to find stuff to get upset about, Saudi Aramco won't disappoint you. Even if you are a positive person with a good sense of humor you will sometimes be faced with some really dumb and frustrating situations. Having said that, I find that most of the frustrating stuff is no worse and actually pales in comparison to stuff our colleagues face at other companies worldwide. For example, while I am annoyed at some policies or situations I have never worried about my paycheck coming at the end of the month.
In summary, Aramco is a pretty good deal, depending on your nationality. I find that most family people like it and most singles do not. Bahrain is close by and that helps but again, it's not what I would consider a really happening place in terms of night life. Having said that, some of the craziest parties I've been to were in Saudi.
Two caveats, though;
Caveat #1: Pilots in Aramco are split into two groups; employees and contractors. This thread is about employees. These days any new pilot will start as a contractor and if the company likes them, there is a vacancy, and the moons are in alignment, they will be offered a full time job. In the past 6 months there have been 6 offers of full time employment that were accepted. I would say that everyone that accepted the offer is appears very happy about it.
Caveat #2: Everyone is concerned about security in Saudi Arabia. While nothing is gauranteed I think Aramco is a safe place to work, and Saudi Arabia (at least in the eastern province) is a safe place to be. Unfortunately Saudi Arabia suffers from "plane crash" syndrome. That is to say, everyone makes a huge fuss when there is a disaster but statistically speaking you are more likely to die crossing a busy road. Anyway, my two cents (actually more like a buck fifty!:) )

[777junkie]

Riggwelter,that was one hell of a good reply.Pretty comprehensive.Keep it up.

[Nevrekar]

Yes I agree that was a great post. All always the grass is always greener on the other side. ARAMCO is a top notch company when it comes to pay and benefits.
Also very family oriented. They will send you back home ASAP when you have a family emergency. I can say that based on first hand experience. You just have to weigh what is important to you. I calculated that each year at ARAMCo was about equal to 3 years of work stateside, financially speaking. So 5 years there and you could have quite a nestegg. 10 years and you're done!

[vagabond 47]

Is Vic (f-18) still there?

Cheers.

[Riggwelter]

Vic is still here, and doing quite well. If you private email me I'll forward him your email.

[pltskiracer]

Very nice post Riggwelter. I will be in the contrac pilot category category. So whats it like for a contract pilot??
I am a single guy, norwegian national currently flying charter in a B737-800.

[vagabond 47]

Riggwelter.

Tell Vic to retire and take his Aramco Pension so that the Oil Price can ease back off $USD 70/barrel.
Cheers.

[Riggwelter]

Vagabond 47,
If Vic's staying is keeping oil prices up, I hope he doesn't leave soon!! Vic is actually a second generation Aramcon (he grew up here while his folks worked for Aramco) and like the other "Aramco Brats" he's probably sticking around because he really likes the place. As Nevrekar accurately said, you put ten years in here and you're set. At the interview we're told "Stay with Aramco ten years and you can build any house want, stay 20 and you can put it on top of any mountain you want." Vic falls into the latter category so I'm pretty certain financial security is no longer his main motivation for sticking around.

PLtskiracer, here's the info on contractors:

Terms and Endearment:Pay is around $7,500 per month (as B 737-700 F/O), plus a free ticket to your domicile (point of origin) once a year. The schedule is 10 weeks on, three weeks off. You are NOT paid during the off time, so net result is ~$70,000 tax free per year. Contractors do not recieve Iqamas (residence papers) so you cannot own a car and other silly stuff like that, Having said that many guys have found workarounds for all that. We're short F/O wise, so the work is a little bit busy(4-6 days a week) but as I mentioned earlier we have short duty periods (4-7 hours on the job, plus the commute is 40 minutes each way, but you're chauffered in a Suburban, so we read, chat, sleep or iPod) and you work early in the morning (4:15 pickup for 6:00 departure, usually done well before noon) or pickup early afternoon and work until 6-10 pm), basically were picking people up before work and dropping them off at work in the field or taking people home. Most think this is the easiest flying job they've had, work wise. You'll have more downtime than you know what do do with, most of us play sports, have a hobby, video games, or hang out, since we all live in the same compound it reminds me of University life.There is no bid list, work is pretty much shared equally, and everyone flys all the routes. I forgot to mention earlier that the Boeing goes to only 11 regular destinations, so combined with clear skies, no traffic, no terrain (except one place, and it's gnarly), great equipment, safety first mentality (i.e. no pressure to rush or cut corners) and pretty cool crewmates the flying is actually quite (dare I say it?) fun. It's the only place I know where we're encouraged to hand fly 3 mile visual approaches and we're cleared VFR and off ATC at FL240.The accomodations are very nice. Contractors are provided a 700 sq foot bachelor pad with a living room and kitchen downstairs and the bedroom and bathroom upstairs. It's clean, well maintained, and the nurses and secretaries live in the same neighborhood. You also have a tiny front yard and laundry room. I'm not certain but I think medical is NOT covered, except for emergency medicine (break a leg in a car wreck and we'll fix you). As long as it's not serious you can get cheap and adequate medical attention in Bahrain or even Saudi. You're driven to work, uniforms are provided and cleaned for you, and the food is good enough that most of us bring it home. It is very easy to save the majority of your money and guys have left here after three years with quite a chunk of change.

Lifestyle: More than any place Aramco is what you make of it. It's easy to hang out and have a hobby, there are facilities galore. As the work schedule is light, you'll have time to indulge in anything that tickles your fancy, as I said earlier, most guys are into some sort of sport(s). Socially there are lots of private parties and get togethers, and it's fairly easy to make friends. The weather is really nice from October to April (10-30c) and mostly sunny. The summer is hot, and in August to end of September, pretty humid. Bahrain is only an hour away and much more liberal than Saudi Arabia, clubs, girls, movies, etc.

The bad stuff: The big thing I see that makes most contractors leave is actually two things. First, you never have a good idea if, when, or ever, you'll be offered a job in Aramco. Hiring seems to happen in spurts every two years, and if you miss the boat it can be very frustrating. This coupled with the fact that you can't bring any significant others to Saudi (wife, kids, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, whatever) can lead to a lot of stress from home. We lose lots of great guys because we do not hire them in a timely manner and they want to get back together with their loved ones. Guys with no ties can and do stay here for several years.
Second, chaos. For a company to have a 99.96% (or something like that) on time dispatch rate for aircraft it's amazing that there is so much chaos regarding promotions, training, vacations, visas, iqamas, housing, internet access, etc. As mentioned earlier in the thread there seems to be a problem at a management level with handling some issues that are near and dear to all employees hearts. It can be very trying, frustrating, inconvienient, and stressful trying to get the company to attend to your needs. I sometimes wonder if Dilbert wasn't an Aramco employee. Having said that, however, it almost always seems like in the end (like at the very last, absolute second) everything gets done, more or less. Also, kudos to our management for almost always pulling out the stops when it really, really counts. Death in the family? The company will have you on a plane and on your way home within 24 hours, you can come back when you've sorted it out. Once you're an employee it's even better; Lose your medical? As long as you're not dead the company will keep you on full salary if it looks like there's a chance you'll recover your medical, and I'm not talking a week,but I've seen over a year in at least one case.
In short, It's really a pretty unique place. Even though the equipment is immaculate and Aviation really runs like clockwork it's very casual, no one in the company wears a tie and we all know each other (there's about 70 fixed wing guys). You can fly a B737 or Dash 8 to the cities, a Twin Otter out to the desert, A crop duster at 30 feet, a single pilot photo reconnaisisance jet (well, a citation with a hole in its floor), or VIP's in G-IV's and Hawker 800's, so if you like to fly there's plenty of different things you can do. Hisotrically it takes around 9-12 years for someone to enter the company and work his way to the top positions in the Boeing and G-IV fleet, which isn't so bad, considering the number of aircraft types and seats you'll be filling. For now, the price of oil is hurting everyone in our industry except us, and it looks like the price is here to stay for a good long while.
Again, I've really rambled, but I know when I was looking at other jobs I was dying to get inside info, so, I hope this helps. Happy hunting.

[Dr_Vandenburg]

Riggwelter... what a selfless and kind man you are to say the very least.
Indeed when others are searching for information within the industry this forum always hides the answers in one form or another.

There are some very helpful people wondering the corridors of this site.
May we see more of them and less of the pot stirers.

It is people like you the world needs more of.

God bless you. :) :) :)

[BrasiliaCaptain]

Riggwelter,

Thanks for the great information on Aramco. I am an Aramco brat, and I've been seriously considering returning to Saudi to fly for Aramco. My father has been with Aramco for almost 15 years as an engineer. He's retiring later this year.

Right now, I'm an ATR captain and instructor pilot with a large regional airline. I really, really like my IP job, but the turmoil in the airline industry is knocking on my employer's door right now. I am very close to finishing my BS degree. I have 5700 hours of total time, almost 1000 hours of jet time, and 1150 or so hours of PIC time in turboprops.

One thing my father has told me over and over again about Aramco is the way he has been treated. I've seen the Dilbert thing first-hand, but I've also seen how they treated him when he had to have major surgery, and he is very well-compensated for what he does, and he really likes the vacation time he gets.

I've sent resumes to Aramco many times over the years; the last time I gave it to Khalil Joharji in person, he told me that if I had time in type (DHC-8 or Boeing 737), they would gladly hire me. Are they still looking for guys with time in type? Would I stand a chance at being offered an interview right now?

Once again, thanks for the good info Riggwelter, and I hope someone has some good input for me, positive or negative.

[Riggwelter]

Doc,
Man, thats alot of love you're showering on me, as per your private email I'll take it as a compliment. Doc was also wondering about employment as a Flight Attendant, Nevrekars explanation was accurate but I'll expound.

W have two types of flight attendants, VIP flight attendants and "everyone else" flight attendants. The VIP flights are staffed by women only, no exceptions. They are from Oz, Godzone (NZ), France, and The U.S. They fly only on the G-IV and are paid around $25,000 and live on camp with us. They have a very nice work schedule and from what I hear the passengers they care for are great. They are contractors and not employees. As far as I know there is no possiblity of becoming an Aramcon.


The regular flight attendants are employees of Unasco, an Aviation contracting company in Saudi Arabia. They are males, only, and are from third world countries with a growing proportion of Saudi Nationals. They work very hard and are in my opinion very poorly paid (like sub $1000) and live off camp in a communal apartment block. Unless you are from a 3rd world country and really need money I would not suggest entertaining a job as a flight attendant at Aramco. As I mentioned they are contracted out from a local provider, and provides no beni's except for a low salary.

The flight Attendant supervisor's name is Abraham "Andy" Ohanes, he IS an employee of Aramco, and I see we are advertising for a position similar to his. This link will take you to a page that describes his job: Just click "Aviation" and then Flight Attendant supervisor.
http://www.jobsataramco.com/index1.html



BrasiliaCaptain;

An Aramco Brat, huh? We have a few flying for us and usually we hire you guys on principle, The only thing as far as I can tell thats holding you back is the degree thing. It has nothing to do with the Aviation department but is a Govornment requirement that you have a 4 year degree. Your flight time sounds more than adequate,numbers wise. Do you have any 737, Hawker 800, CE-550, or Dash 8 time? If not, I know one guy who went and bought a 737 type (we used to have 737-200's and it was about $6000 to get checked out) and was able to get hired on. He was a fighter pilot and had zero multi time, but he had friend on the inside and we gave him a quick checkride over here in the plane, he was really good so he got the job. I guess I'm saying that while we do prefer guys with time in type (and currency) we have under certain circumstances hired guys without time. I would apply again and strongly suggest having your dad talk to anyone he knows in the company who can help you. Does Gary Bain in Houston already have your resume? If you could show up in person and do a check out ride that would go a long way to helping you get a job (provided, of course you kick butt). I know for a fact we are hiring and I'd say you have a pretty good chance. Finish your degree and get someone on the inside working for you. By the way, did you go to Aramco schools?
Two more very important things, if you check the link I gave above it will also show jobs for pilots, it's a little out of date and says we need Hawker and Dash 8 Captains, that may be true but I know our current focus is 737 F/O's. Also, the job description states that a degree is NOT required for the job provided you have 3000 hours, I'm honestly not sure what this means, maybe as a contractor you do not need a degree, or maybe now we are hiring without a degree. I don't know, sorry. Good luck!

[BrasiliaCaptain]

Riggwelter,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I went to Aramco schools, but only for the last half of the 9th grade, then it was off to boarding school. Dhahran Class of 1992, that's me. I actually asked Gary Bain a couple of years ago if it would be worth getting my B-737 type rating to make myself competitive, and he didn't think it would make a huge difference at the time. I should give him a call sometime and see what he has to say. I rode Gary's jumpseat when I was a returning student; most returning students tried to get trashed on sid, I tried to hop on the jumpseat of the 737 whenever I could to learn as much as I can. I liked those old -200s. I'm definitely going to get the connections in motion through my dad's contacts. When the job posting said that they were looking for Dash 8 captains, I got pretty excited. I don't have time in any aircraft in Aramco's fleet, but I've been flying big turboprops for many years now. Of course, I'm not too particular about which aircraft they put me on if I get the job. I think finishing the degree will help, and I hope to be finished late this year. Thanks again for all of the info so far, and I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[opster]

For those reading this thread, the comments by Riggwelter and Navrekar are probably the most accurate and unbiased you'll find concerning Aramco.
Opster
(Aramco emplyee: 1980-1985, 1997-2000

[Dr_Vandenburg]

Riggwelter,

Many thanks for the reply, cleared up lots of questions I had.

[atuk]

Hmmm..interesting. Correct me if im wrong.. does aramco allow flyin 2 @ afew a/c type at the same time. I've got some 8000+ tt, currently capt/IP 737-400 with about 3500hr on type-all P1, 3700hr twin-otter time & rest are Fokker50 n ab-initio time. The idea of flyin a few a/c type at the same time sounds pretty exciting...bored of airline flyin..:bored:

[Riggwelter]

Atuk,
Yes, Aramco allows flying of two types at the same time. Several years ago a Safety Audit recommended that our pilots be allowed to fly more than one type at the same time to help dispel complacency. Currently we have the following aircraft pairings:

Dash-8 F/O - CE-550 F/O
Dash 8 F/O - Hawker 800 F/O
B 737 F/O - AT -802 Captain
Hawker Captain - G-IV F/O
Dash 8 Captain - Twin Otter Captain
CE-550 Captain - AT-802 Captain
B 737 captain - AT-802 Captain
B 737 Captain - Twin Otter Captain

We also have many pilots who fly both left and right seat on the same aircraft type.

Although this list only shows what's currently going on we've had virtually every concievable combination happen, including a very few guys selected for triple positions (usually F/O in all three seats like CE-550, Dash 8, B 737) and senior management guys holdng G-IV Captain - B 737 Captain.
Lately to avoid scheduling problems we've moved away from having people hold positions in two "busy fleets" I.e. no Dash 8 - B 737 combos, however, if you're current in both and needed we do move guys around as required (usually to cover a temporary shortage), pay by the way, is not affected by position filled. You could be paid like a 737 Captain but fly as skipper in the Twin Otter (becaue primarily you are a 737 Captain).
In fact our pay is very different than most airline ops, it's complicated but in short you come in at a pre negotiated salary and it just goes up (and up) each year. Unlike most other airlines we ARE evaluated SUBJECTIVELY based on performance, personal skills, whether you're upgrading eqiupment, extra duties performed (officework, extra aircraft flying, etc.) and other stuff that management deems important. Average increases vary between 4% and 15% per year. Being pilots we always whine about the injustice of our merit increase but in reality very, very few leave because they weren't paid enough for the work performed. Of course theres alot of other variables that go into pay,but I'm really deviating from your question, I just wanted to press home the point that you are typically paid for the highest paying position you perform.
As far as flying multiple types I think it's great, no one is really forced to do it and many actively ask for it (I always have), I consider it a major perk of working fror Aramco; you can bush fly while still making airline wages. If you're tired of airline flying try this for a bit, it's really different, even if you only fly our 737 operation, it's unique.

[atuk]

Interesting. Worked with MHS Aviation in Malaysia which provide air transport services to Shell and other oil company for 5 yrs before joining my national airline-MH. The idea of flyin a few type of a/c at the same time always excites me...but... If you're Asian or "other arab" you can probably do better elsewhere in the region...that is..hmmm:hmm::(

[Riggwelter]

Atuk,
Let me clarify my statement "If you're Asian or "other arab" you can probably do better elsewhere in the region".

First off, this statement applies only if you are a full time employee. Contractors all recieve the same pay, irregardless of nationality, which when coupled with tax free status and free housing and transportation(to work and back) is very good short term (i.e. a 1st Year Aramco contractor pilot will make more than a 1st year Emirates pilot, and I would say this is true until the Emirates pilot makes Captain and his benefits really start to accrue). So if you want to come here for a few years and have an adventure and save some cash I would say we are very competitive.
Having said that you would have to take a good hard look at the Asian package, if you were hoping for full time employment. We have no Malaysians working as pilots for us, but we do have a Pakistani guy, and he is very happy. His situation may be different than yours, though. He's a retired Air Force pilot(and all that implies) and has a family, and family life here plays a big part in why most of us stay. I have to admit that I am not really familiar with the nuances of other payrolls. I do know that the way Aramco comes up with the salary packages is they look at what you'd be making in your home country for the same job and then devise a scheme that would entice you enough to come out here. I'd be suprised if it wasn't significantly better than anything back home, all things considered.
All I can say is apply and see what they offer. Best of luck.

One last thing, As we fly U.S. registered aircraft everyone flying for us needs a US ATP. I think you do not need one for the interview but will need one to come over if we offer you a job.

[BrasiliaCaptain]

Riggwelter,

I gave Gary Bain a call yesterday and emailed him my resume and cover letter. The time in type thing still seems like an important factor, but Gary sounds like he is willing to give it a shot running it by the guys in Dhahran. My father is going to go through his manager as well to see if I can get some more backing. I will let you know what comes of it. Thanks again.

[NG_Kaptain]

Been lurking here a bit but I found the comments by Riggwelter very interesting. Two buddies of mine quit our company and have joined Aramco, saw one of them recently and had nothing but praises for the company and its operations. Made me want to dust off my resume and send it in. Are any contractors hired directly into left seat 737? Got a bit over 1300 hrs left seat 737 and 738 NG's, but have gone over to the other side and am a bus driver on the 343. BTW the guys are IJ and BS you should know them. :) :)
Cheers,
NG_K

[Nevrekar]

Riggwelter is obviously "on scene" and so has the latest information. When I was there it was pretty much the same. I was hired for the 737-200 (F/0).
I was already typed in the airplane with 6,000 hrs and a Master's degree.
When I got there I was also "assigned" the Twin Otter and then the CE-550.
I was sent to the States for the CE-550 S/P type authorization. The DHC-6 training was done locally. The CE-550 is only used for aerial photo missions. The twin otter was used for mostly medivac flight out of Shaybah. The pilot group when I was there consisted of Saudi nationals followed by U.S. citizens and Canadian citizens. There was 1 French national (U.S. green card holder). Everyone must have U.S. licenses and a medical. BTW you have to do your medical with the Dr. in Dhahran. So if you have something medical and have "Santa Claus" MD--think again!!

I did all my 737-200 training in DFW before heading to DHA. When you get there you train in the aircraft again--since money is no object, nor is ATC congestion. We went out in the 737 and did steep turns and stall recognition.

[Riggwelter]

NG Kaptain,
BS and IG do a very good job, if you're like them you should do fine over here. As for direct entry, well, yes we do it in almost all of the fleets, but it's done fairly rarely and getting a left seat in the 737-700 requires a lot of experience, our DE guys are retired Delta, Egyptair, Gulf Captains and have tons of time (several thousand PIC). IJ for example, would be a good candidate (I think he has 1000+ 737 PIC) but his experience level is too close (albeit superior) to guys that are senior to him and in the company but in a lower position. As you can imagine it's tough on everyone senior to the DEC but in a lower position.
Aramco purposely maintains a small pool of DEC contractors in most fleets to allow for contraction and expansion of requirements without having to axe/hire a company guy. Also, if you get hired on as a DEC contractor it's much harder to be selected as a full time employee(in a DEC position) because of the morale impact on other full time employees senior to you but lower than you. Having said that if the Aviation Department finds a really amazing guy with talent, personality, good attitude, and of course good political skills(whether genuine nice guy or whatever) they will occasionally offer full time DEC employment; Currently we are converting to full time employment one (1) DEC 737 Captain. He’s a retired Delta Captain and very, very good in the cockpit and in helping with office work (MEL revision, Ops manuals, that sort of fun stuff). It also helps that he’s as humble as pie.
We currently have DEC’s on the contracts side in the B737, H800, CE550, Twin Otter, Dash 8, and Air Tractor. Most expats that are hired full time usually jump straight into the 737 as an F/O (bypassing the Ab Initio Saudi’s in the Dash 8 and CE 550 F/O position) due to their experience and then rapidly move into Captain position in one of the smaller aircraft (like the CE 550 or more recently the H800), just like Nevrekar stated in his own experience. Over the past 4 years we’ve had about 4 guys get hired full time into the G-IV and 737 as skippers, which are Aramco Aviations top tier positions.
As one can imagine this has caused some frustration within the ranks, but due to steady turnover I think it’s rare that someone doesn’t reach the top within Aramco’s prescribed aircrew progression plan (give or take a couple of years). Basically someone who gets hired on by Aramco should be able to make Skipper on the 737 or G-IV within 9-12 years of fulltime service, irregardless of DECs and their starting position in the company.

[NG_Kaptain]

Thanks Riggwelter,

I might be marketable,:) Have 14,000+ total, 11,000 PIC spread out between HS 748, DC9, MD83, 737NG and A340. Am an oil brat too, grew up in the oilfields and am the only one in the kids in the family who flies. My siblings are with Baker, Schlumberger and Haliburton, the old man (Pops) was director of maintenance and pilot for one of the subsidiaries of Gulf Oil. Am an airline pilot now but am seriously looking for a change and your outfit seems very interesting. Was born and raised in a place sounding very similar to your base and am a US citizen. Appreciate your candid response. Tell the boys Captain America says Hi!!!

[Riggwelter]

In response to NG Kaptain/Captain America and all you other interested high time fella's out there. Due to a "Perfect Storm" of events it seems like we are on the cusp of experiencing a major shortage of 737 NG Captains (like in the next 1-6 months). Now, while I expect/hope that we will be upgrading some guys from the ranks I think there might be some room for a couple of guys to come in from the outside. Either way I am certain that we will be hiring for many positions and if you have any interest in our humble little operation I would suggest throwing your hat in the ring. From past experience preference seems to go to guys with lots of time in our types, who are current or at least rated in one or more of our types, and are open minded. So if you got 3000 hours in 737NG that'll probably beat a guy w/ 25,000+ in 747-400. Also a US ATP is a must before you can come over(but not for an interview, I think), and the job openings will be for contract pilot positions only. We evaluate our contract guys once they've been here a while and a lucky(?) few might get picked for full time offers. Happy hunting gentlemen.

[vagabond 47]

Its all getting a bit "Sick Making" Guys...........remember we are grown ups and this the Middle East and not Happy Valley.........off target Garry?

[Riggwelter]

Ha ha you're right, this place sucks. Where are my matches?:)

The Middle East definitely isn't for everyone, ditto for Aramco. However, in the big scheme of things I really am happy, and there are lots of people like me here. There are also lots who are unhappy. I guess it's a matter of personal preference/taste. I see from your title you're in the UAE, how do you like it over there?


"...And those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music".
-complementary pithy qoute.

[vagabond 47]

At times and places like these I think of "Jack, in One flew over the Cuckoos nest".

[Riggwelter]

I've recieved many emails from people requesting contact info for jobs at Aramco, or more info on Aramco itself. Check out www.jobsataramco.com . This website should point anyone interested in the right direction. Disregard the fact that we are currently not advertising pilot positions on the website, we are actively looking, updating of this specific site is slow. Good luck.

[sorath5]

I am a US based Technician who has sent my resume several times to them. I have the experience they are looking for, but have never been contacted. Is it like a government job where you have to know someone to get hired? :bored: Does anyone have a name in HR they can provide? Seems like the application process is not very personal.

[QSK?]

Can anyone supply the relevant contact details for the Manager, Flight Operations for Saudi Aramco (ie name, telephone, email address)? I have tried the SA switchboard and their webmail inquiry facility with no joy.

Thanks.

[Human Cargo]

For those of you that may be concidering Aramco / Saudi Aramco Aviation as an alternative to recover your retirement or maybe as "NEW OPPORTUNITY" BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!
1..Contrary to popular belief or rumor Saudi Aramco is not a career move at any level, it is pure and simple just another contract, but with a Multi Billion Dollar Oil Company........IT IS NOT AN AIRLINE!!!!

2..You will probably be recruited by someone from Aramco Aviation Services in Houston TX, they do all the selection, evaluation,and pay for the recurrent/ Initial B737NG or Dash8 Training as needed. THEY ARE A FIRST CLASS ORGANIZATION!!!!!!. They really treat you as a company such as ARAMCO should. They really take care of any problem you have almost as though you are a perminent Pilot with the company everything is first class!!!!, ( even though at this time you are just a potential Contractor/ Consultant nothing has been signed!!) from the moment you are contacted by them to the day you arrive in Bahrain on your way to SAUDI, everything is First Class!!!, no problem is too big or too small for them.
3..The problem comes when its time to fill out the NUMERIOUS forms (actually its the same form) but as there is no one to show you the correct way to fill them out so you now engage in a sort of back and forth game with the Chief Pilot's secretary untill someone out of compassion shows you the correct way( because the same thing happened to him when he was new) or they get tired of you. Remember this is all your expense money you have from your training in the USA and the hotel cost's you encur during your travel from the USA to SAUDI.
4.. Both The Chief Pilot and The Fleet Manager of the Type aircraft you will be flying know the date and time of you departure and arrivial into the Kingdom of Saidi Arabia, but the do not even have ANY CONCERN about your well being other than the fact they have to send some one to have you picked up at the hotel in Bahrain. There is NO PHONE CALL OR ANYONE THERE TO MEET YOU ON YOUR ARRIVAL!! in Bahrain!!! Just a hope that everthing has gone as it should so far.
5..The Accomodation is basic, they provide no transport except to and from work. There is no internet supplied, no TV, However their is internet available but it requires coersion and underhanded ways to have it installed.There is phone service in the apartment BUT SAUDI ARAMCO SECURITY OFFICIALS LISTEN IN ON ALL CALLS!!! The distance form the housing area to the grocery or the resturant is approximately 5Km. and there is no way there but to walk or find the bus schedules and take the bus,and it is a little too far to walk in the average 43 degree C./
122 Degree F. average daily temperature you will face. So in addition to your jet lag and disorientation you now have to find a way to get to the resturant to eat.There are alot of good guys there who will help you out, but untill you find them and make friends with them, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN.
6..As time goes by and you get into your routine,some things become Quite apparrent....All the proceedures that you have learn't or were taught in the sim training while in the USA are TOTALY USELESS!!!
Your are part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Department which DOES NOT HAVE AN OPPERATING CERTIFICATE!!! and is operating under the provisions of FAR Part 61!!!!! Imagine that Operating a B737 or a Dash8 on a scheduled passenger Operations and not have so much as an Operating Certificate!! They use a mix of SOME FAR's SAUDI Proceedure's and local In "House Desert"proceedure's as their day to day operating proceedures.
7..Their "Training Department" comprises of very experienced Pilots from various parts of the world, !!!BUT NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER HAD ANY FORMAL TRAINING OR INSTRUCTIOR's or IN BEEN A TRAINING CAPTAIN!!! and NEITHER HAVE THEY BEEN APPROVED BY THE FAA.
8..They were appointed Instructors BY MEMO FROM THE CHIEFPILOT!!!NOT buy the FAA AS IT SHOULD!
So now you show up for your first day to go fly with someone who does not even know the FUNDERMENTALS OF INSTRUCTING,and WORSE.... Neither DO they HOLD AN FAA FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS RATING or do they HOLD ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY BY THE FAA TO CONDUCT ANY TRAINING!!! ground or Flight, which means that you the Pilot are putting your Ticket out the for the FAA to revoke IMMEDIATELY!!! Becausethis is an illegal opperation!! THERE IS NO FAA OVERSIGHT!! The Chiefpilot claims that the company has a FAA POI in DUBAI. But his is prohibited from traveling to SAUDI ARABIA because of the Present Government Ban on all travel to SAUDI ARABIA, so the are "SELF POLICEING" Honestly in SAUDI ARABIA is as fleeting as the Rains in Jubail!
9.. After the first month has passed you expect to be paid....ALL the perminent pilots have been paid, BUT YOU HAVE NOT RECIEVED YOUR CHECK!! You ask about and they say they'll look into it, but nothing, you check with your bank in the country you live but there is nothing!!!! FINALLY half way thru the next month your money "may show up" or they cut you a check. But by then you have exhausted nearly all your funds.
Numerious complaints to the chief pilots office or his secretary(who is very powerful) yelds little concern!
10.. As a "Consultant" you are a 2nd class person in Saudi ARAMCO!! you do not exist there!! outside of the Aviation Department, you do not have an residence papers(AGAMA) you were issued a non employment visa.that clearly states "NOT PERMITTED TO WORK" also you were issued the Camp ID and the Plant ID,
11..If you are unfortuneate enough to get sick, and try to go to the ARAMCO Hospital to get first aid or Medical attention for a serious illness,YOU DON'T EXIST IN ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM except for the Aviation Department, and if you dont exist in computer system then you Cannot get any medical attention in the SAUDI ARAMCO Hospital. So what do you do? You go to the other hospital there in Dhaharan...SAAD but you will pay!!! almost twice as much as you would for comparable treatment in the US,but your Medical insurance will not cover you,even though its the EXACT same insurance as you have in the USA.
12.. SO working for SAUDI ARAMCO is not for every one and any rational to going there is pure speculation untill you are are offered a perminent position. There is no garantee of that ever happening to you and there is not seniority or requirements to fill or lenght of time served,it total dumb luck,and whether they like you, and how hard you try to Wank them off!!!
Some Guy's try to convert to Islam in hopes it will help them, but it didn't.
But once you Become perminent all of a sudden you exist and you are treated with respect,and The SAUDI PILOTS begin to open up you a bit.
13.. Depending on the fleet you are goning to be on The quality of pilot you fly with is questionable, On the Dash8 even though you are the Pilot In Command, and "ICAO Law say you are the Final Authority"if you are a "Consultant" you have no Athority The Local SAUDI First Officers are the ones that run the show, AND EVEN REPORT ON CAPTAINS PERFORMANCE, On the Boeing with FEW exceptions The SAUDI PILOTS flighing skills are at best poor, they CANNOT EVEN FLY A SIMPLE VISUAL VFR Traffic Pattern with out the help of the VNAV/ LNAV Function of the FMC, and though most of the flying is in VMC conditions they would be lost with out the RNAV approaches that they fly at various airports they fly to. They do not respect the 250kts below 10000 feet that everyone does and are always trying to find away or short cut dispite the companies mandate about safety. Not too long ago the had a SAUDI CAPTAIN Take the B737 to an altitude above its OPTIMUM ALTITUDE, needless to say he is still employed because HE IS SAUDI, while "CONSULTANT PILOTS" have been sent home for much much less.

So Though they throw alot of money at you,and though The Folks at ARAMCO AVIATION SERVICES treat you with PROFFESSIONAL Courtesy.
DON'T BE FOOLED STAY AWAY FROM SAUDI ARAMCO!!!!

[Defenestrator]

Welcome to the desert mate.
Good Luck:uhoh:

[WhatsaLizad?]

Not too long ago the had a SAUDI CAPTAIN Take the B737 to an altitude above its OPTIMUM ALTITUDE,

Would that be MAX or OPTIMUM?

[filejw]

Sounds like somebody doesn't know the difference between a corporate operation and an airline. :}

[411A]

...nor 14CFR61 and the more appropriate 14CFR91.:ugh: :E

[GlueBall]

Didn't you know that an oil company is not an airline [Part-121] but a private airplane operator [Part-91]. Did you honestly think that you'd be something more than just a contractor truck/bus driver with wings...? :confused:

[Petrovsky]

Agreed: At this stage I believe they operate under a waiver of (most of?)Part 125. i.e Part 91. The decision for the FAA not to require full part 125 compliance may very well be as a result of pressure from other government departments as the said company may have supported (financially) re-election campaigns of a certain president.....

[sec 3]

Something like ...a certain president and the Bin Laden family??:eek:

[chandlers dad]

Flew with Boeing and McDonnell Douglas years ago in the magic kingdom and while it was better and more professional, much of what you said is correct.

BTW, every phone call in the kingdom is listened to, not just the ones at Aramco.

[Aircraft Eng.]

Your right about some of the things, in the same time you're over exaggerating. I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way, but man come on I still thinks we are far away better than a lot of companies out there especially when you're talking about private airplane operator + with all do respect to you if you don't like the company you can leave any time no one is holding is there???

[Human Cargo]

[quote=Aircraft Eng.;2805742]Your right about some of the things, in the I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way,

I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!

[vagabond 47]

[quote=Aircraft Eng.;2805742]Your right about some of the things, in the I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way,

I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!
Unfortunately you are talking about normal people.........if you work in the middle-east be ready to accept something that is not normal......and that is at $USD75 a barrel........wait untill it hits $100+.

[cooolali]

First of all, I believe you submitted a request for employment, not Aramco has kissed your hands to join them promising you red velvet carpet to welcome you aboard.

Secondly, the monthly payment you’re getting for joining Aramco is US$ 6,500 for first officer Dash8 up to US$8,500 monthly for B737 Captain plus $500 per diem on top of that. I believe such a pay rate is not matched back home in the main land.

The load of the work is significantly different from flying back in the main land whereby in Aramco, you’ll be back home at 11PM at most enjoying a day or two of rest. And, that work load is seconded with 3 weeks off every three quarters with a pay amount of US$2,500.

What you have posted is a mere personal problem that you wanted to blow it up somewhere to defame a place that you heartily wanted to remain in if just those problems you listed were resolved. Those problems are terrifically personal. When you arrived in Bahrain, you were escorted to the Embassy and all the way to your ready furnitured home (without a TV) for I don’t believe any employer will furnish TV or internet to the employees. But Aramco does provide free internet to its Pilots on full employment status; those who pass the evaluation period during the (Consultant) status. Hence, you’re one of those who didn’t make it and want to harm Aramco Aviation by defaming and confusing new applicants of the situation here. Additionally, transportation all over the world is limited between home and work, but you seem to want blonde drive with Bentley GT. I hope you’ll find such an employer.

In regards to Medical, the medical coverage is not provided unless it’s an emergency and it’s clearly stated and explained in the contract. So, wondering about that is really showing that you don’t have the basics English reading to comprehend a clear sentence in the contract.

Last, Aramco Aviation is FAA Part 91 approved and certified operator outside the USA with “N” registered Aircraft. Aramco Aviation is periodically self-auditing itself from fine organization such as “Flight Safety” and “R Dixon”. Aramco Aviation has transported in the year 2005, more than 365,000 people to/from their work locations to the Base Hub in King Fahad International airport. Aramco fleet is composed of 17 fixed wing aircraft and 21 helicopters and more than 56 years of history; such history has only two accidents, the rest was clean white slate of good performance, teamwork spirit, and faith in better tomorrow through action.

AMQ.

[GlueBall]

...There are no desperate situations, only desperate people. :{

[Desert Diner]

What he says is true, but he only gives half the story.

You come in as a contractor, so you don't have a igama (residence permit) but you still have your passport.

You may not have a car (can't buy it anyway) and depending on where in Dhahran they put you, it could be 5km to get to the commissary/dining hall. But there is a crappy bus schedule (about every 2-3 hours or so) or you can call a taxi (cost is SR10 each way). You can also rent a car on a montly basis (actually not that expensive compared to other places). There are also Aramco busses that take you into Khobar and a taxi ride is less SR30 or less (Thats less than $10. There is no way you can enter a taxi in the west for less than that). The only reason you can complain about transport is if you are cheap.

As for internet, the paperwork for getting Aramco internet is daunting, but the local dial up is cheap these days. And all you have to do is buy a card in Khobar and you just dial up.

As for TV, you have to buy one, but they you have to buy over priced sattelite service as there is virtualy nothing you can see over the air, if you are lucky to have the reception. You have to pay over $500/year for the most basic of satellite service.

[Nevrekar]

The best deal at ARAMCO has always been the non-contract, permanent positions. I flew for them from 1997-1999. (737, DHC6, CE-500). The pay and benefits were excellent and I was very well treated. At the time the Chief Pilot was an American as were most of the fleet managers. Now there have been quite a few changes, and yes I have heard that it's a lot different.
The contract guys has visa issues, car issues etc, but most of these problems were easily resolved with the "right contacts."

If you are from a 121 carrier it is a lot different. I remember having a 5AM pick up, 4-6 legs, and done by 10AM!! Its not for everyone, but if you want to save some money, 5 years there will be equivalent to 15 years in the states, based on salary, savings etc.

[NG_Kaptain]

Sounds OK,as long as you go in with your eyes open. Its not a scheduled airline but a sorta "Bristow with Boeings" :)

[NG_Kaptain]

Any new info on Saudi Aramco?

[expatula]

lesson learned for human cargo. do your homework before jumping into the wagon so you don't have to blame others for your own miseries! :ugh:

[AAIGUY]

Human Cargo's experience are not unframiliar to any expat anywhere.. the first few months in any country can be hard while all the paperwork ect is processed. Even in HKG, I had the internet people cancel twice before finally installing (6 WEEKS!!!).

Overseas Contract Expat work is not KANSAS Toto.. There are few laws and fewer rights than you are used to. They make it up by paying you $$$$

[Geebz]

Man, I feel for ya.

Having worked extensively in the Middle East, I know all too well what you've been through.

Pretty much the same everywhere in the desert. Some places better than others but otherwise a huge disregard for rules and respect towards expats... and ALWAYS late to pay.

And about the Saudi pilots. A lot of those guys are nightmares so no surprise there. There is a reason expats are always on the flight deck with them.

I finished up my final and my LAST M.E. contract in Dec. 2004. I will never go back to work there, have plenty of friends there though, would still visit. Decent people on a spiritual and social level but horrible in business.

A buddy of mine was recently offered a decent paying gig in Bahrain. When they asked him to pay his way there, with the promise of reimbursement upon arrival, he declined. They dug their heels in that he must pay, he decided to fid work elsewhere. This was your first M.E. gig so of course you expected to get paid on time and get expenses reimbursed promptly. Hopefully you learned your lesson.

I am reminded of an Indian pilot who was hired by my former Kuwaiti employer after I left. They asked him to pay for his Initial type rating, hotel bill during training, travel to USA (from India) for training and then to Kuwait from USA all on his tab with the promise of reimburing him upon arrival. My buds and I added it all up and he was over $60,000 in the hole. There's no telling how long it took to get his money back but I'm sure at least 3 months. You want to haev sympathy for the guy but it serves him right for being to gullible. Kind of like a Vegas gambleer who loses it all... you know, "what were you thinkin?"

When I go on contract, I work out all details and payment BEFORE I leave my home (Unless it's for Parc Aviation, they always pay). If the company I am flying for can't understand this... well at least I'm sitting in my home and not in some ****ty hotel praying I'll get my money. Live and learn, Gents.

[TZZ]

i think saudi aramco is not professional at all just look at their local engineers they really dont know stuffs even from the flight manual i asked one engineer from saudi aramco what a fuselage is he didnt even know what it means its really shame for the company hiring people like him

[Desert Diner]

Which "local engineers" are you talking about?:rolleyes:

It's one thing to winge about T&C's, life in Saudi, life in Aramco/Dhahran, Contractor vs. Staff, etc.

But maintenance is another matter! Do you know the registration on the side of their planes? Even more, who flys on them? Their families!

[NGFellow]

Does anyone know the current pay package for Saudi ARAMCO (B737NG). Any info about conditions there, rosters, schedules etc. Contact details etc.

[mutt]

Welcome to the land of PPrune where the search function will be your best friend........ :):)

Lots written on Aramco.....

Mutt

[Spread da Aloha]

Great thread. Anybody know what is happening at Aramco these days? I heard a lot of pilots are leaving for another Saudi LCC.

[Panama Jack]

Sadly true Spread da Aloha. From what I've heard, even the Saudi's are fed-up and looking at personal exit strategies. :eek: Sad to hear this once "top notch" employer going this way.

[Riggwelter]

It's true, we've had a few people leave over the last 24 months. To be honest the contract jobs in India, while much harder work, pay more, and as far as I know every expat contractor (No full timers have left for new jobs) that has left was a co-pilot here making 8K US per month and is now a skipper in India making 12K per month, albiet with double the workload.
Theres been a few Saudi's that have left recently, but it's for a myriad of reasons, pay being one of them(Ironically, the Saudi's in Aramco are the lowest paid pilots, especially the F/O's) , and to varying degrees, morale issues.
I can't help but feel a little annoyed when someone takes a broad brush and paints most Saudis as useless gits. I have found excellence and stupidity equally represented by all racial groups, and to sit and make crass generalizations about a nationality, no matter how dumb one representative may be, to be incorrect. I'd like to balance these negative comments by saying that there are some really excellent pilots and engineers over here, both Saudi and Expat.

Pay, by the way, has not changed much since the previous posts.

[Fullboat2]

Hello all,

I've read and reread this whole thread dating back to 2000! Can anyone elaborate a little more on the process of 'upgrading' to employee status? There seems to be no guarantees on that ever occurring but is there a general rule of thumb?

I've heard three different scenarios really and I'm unsure as to which one, if any, is correct. The first is that everyone puts in a year and then pretty much gets the call up to the majors. Second scenario is two years and then you're off the farm team. Last scenario is that you're just in limbo the whole time, if it happens it happens!

Could those in the know shed a little light on how it seems to work right now? Assuming a guy can find his way around an airplane and doesn't have an attitude malfunction, what is reasonable in terms of making employee?

Thanks a ton!

[Panama Jack]

Seemingly, they make "permanent" the guys who are at greatest risk of leaving. Then there is the legendary case of the one-eyed pilot with a poor record who became locally known as "Mohammed bin Drinkin'" after he converted to Islam (he was offered "permanent status"-- but screwed it up in the end too); which proves that you only real criteria is be liked by the management to get a permanent offer. :D

[Spread da Aloha]

if Saudis can fly half way as good as these Saudis drive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtV1bYyDfTk&feature=related) then i'll be OK. just no loop de loops or barrel rolls in the air please.

[Fullboat2]

Ok, I laughed pretty hard at that one Panama Jack!

Seriously though, if you're a decent guy that can fly an airplane, are you gonna get the employee offer after a year or so? Or is it a total crapshoot?

[Riggwelter]

Fullboat,
Unfortunately there is no defined or even deciferable, for that matter, method to who gets hired and when, and who does not. This is a constant source of frustration among the contractors and probably the primary reason contractors leave us in the end.
The story of Mohamed Bin Drinkin is pretty spot on (He was an expat who converted to Islam and changed his name to Mohamed so he could marry a moslem girl, unfortunately he did not change his epic drinking habits), he was the least likely of candidates and was hired over the heads of many more qualified (imho, at least) other pilots.
All I can say is that if our management likes you, you will have a spot in the sun.
As for a time frame of when you'd get full time, I can say that in general don't expect to be offered a job in less than a year, and expect several months to pass before all the t's are crossed and I's dotted before you've finished the hiring rain dance.
If you do make it through all the heartache, and you are a western expat, you will enjoy one of the best paying, best working condition (if you like part 91 psuedo commuter work or VIP flights) jobs in the region. For a family guy, it's pretty much our opinion there isn't a better place anywhere, period.

[Fullboat2]

Riggwelter,

Thank you very much for your reply. I have been in touch with a few of the guys flying over there now and everyone has been simply wonderful with information!

It seems like the answer about employees is not shorter than a year, not longer than two, and when you get the nod it takes you a few months to jump through all the hoops.

Curious, what happens to the guys that management doesn't like, do they stay on as permanent contractors or get shipped out?

From what I have been able to tell, the family life over there is EXACTLY what family life should be. One of your guys equated it to where Ward and June Cleaver moved to after their show cancelled :0)

A few of us applying for Aramco have been told that story you mentioned. Simply amazing!

Again, thanks for all your help! Aloha!

Fullboat2

[ScubaPilot77]

My wife, a Registered Nurse, and I (an ATP Helo, S/MEL/S) are very interested in Aramco employment. Is there anyone on PPRuNe knowledgeable about Aramco helicopter operations who would be willing to answer some specific questions?

1. I have seen Aramco helo job advertisements listing 3500 helo PIC as a "requirement". Is this a true, bedrock minimum PIC hour requirement, or is this like many companies -- they advertise for what they would like, but given the worldwide helicopter pilot shortage, will take someone otherwise qualified but with less hours than ideal?

2. What is the current Aramco helicopter fleet composition? I read recently that the Bell BH-206 aircraft were being replaced with Augusta AW-109s. Has the replacement been completed?

3. Is it possible to be hired as a husband and wife team as "permanent" employees, instead of as "contractors"? Any opinion on whether a pilot and nurse, husband and wife team would be considered an attractive combination to the company and more likely to get hired?

4. Any general information on the current compensation and retirement package? Not looking for proprietary information but a general sense of the compensation for a US-expat helicopter pilot and how many years are required to earn a retirement.

Thank you!

[Desert Diner]

From what I have been able to tell, the family life over there is EXACTLY what family life should be. One of your guys equated it to where Ward and June Cleaver moved to after their show cancelled :0)

A few of us applying for Aramco have been told that story you mentioned. Simply amazing!

Simply amazing will sum it all up. Pity its only a view through rose colored glasses.

Its a nice place to live, but don't kid yourselves.

[chandlers dad]

There is a reason why they are paying salaries like they are, supplying housing and so on. Its not a "country club" over there everywhere you look. There is good and not so good with every job, this one included.

Lived and worked in Riyadh years ago (10+ ago) and the country has really changed a lot, and most of it for the good. That said we did not have to worry about being kidnapped either. Go there with open eyes and you should do ok.

[Spread da Aloha]

There have been no kidnappings in Saudi in many years either that I know of. However I can tell you of various shootings, stabbings and robberys yesterday alone in Los Angeles.

I hold an American passport and I walk around just about anywhere I like out here. While I am not running around wearing a stars and stripes bandana or a born in the USA tee shirt or anything, I don't know much arabic either.

Of course coming from Hawaii most likely gives me a slight advantage over most other Americans. I wouldn't recommend most people walk around Makaha or Kalihi alone either (back in Hawaii), and I love those towns.

You've got to share a little and give a little Hawaiian Style. Spread a little Aloha out there in the world.

[NGFellow]

Is ARAMCO just hiring contract NG guys or full-timers as well. The website says they need Capts and F/O's. How many NG's do they have? What are the competive requirements? Are Saudi's leaving for NAS? It seems like they have ads for jobs that are not available.

[icarus sun]

As a contractor it is like living in a POW camp or Club FED. I escaped after 1 month. See the movie The Great Escape ,my bike made it over the wire fence to BAH.

[ScubaPilot77]

Both PPRuNe an the Aramco website have information for the fixed wing types. Are there any helicopter pilots who have worked for Saudi Aramco willing to converse on what it is like working for Aramco?

JSMacKayII @ gmail.com if you would like to respond privately.

[ironbutt57]

Geez PJ i knew that fellow you mentioned for the better part or 20 years..and no he hasn't, nor will he ever change...:ooh:

[ubaid123]

Any one knows how can i contact the operational control of aramco , im a licensed dispatcher and wana work for them.

When i did the dispatcher course i had 3 dudes from aramco in my class and they unfortunately didnt make it!!!

Any body got any info or contacts?

will appreciate it a lot

[wonder]

anyone from aramco know where Y. Alshingaiti is? is he still there. PM please if you know

[Nevrekar]

ARAMCO is usually hiring for the B737. They are hiring contractors and after 1 year as a contractor you can be considered for a full-time position.
Schedule is 10 weeks/3 weeks off. Pay is around $8000/month plus $3000 for travel every 10 weeks. Housing is provided. Website is [email protected]. They don't usually hire over 60 guys.

[Riggwelter]

As far as I am aware we are not hiring for PIC positions, especially in the B737. We have many full time expats with the appropriate level of experience who are looking for the upgrade, as well as up and coming locals. Having said that it wouldn't hurt to drop an email to the site you saw the advert and ask for clarification.

Nevekrar is pretty spot on for the T&C for contractors.

[ubaid123]

hI GUYS

Can some one Please help me get in touch with aramco flight operations department, flight dispatch supervisor or operations manager?/Head of dispatch? or Operations control center OCC??

im a dispatcher trying to get into aramco.

i am trying to contact them but cant find the right people to contact.

[Riggwelter]

The dispatcher jobs have been 100% nationalized, I think unless you are a Saudi, you have little chance of employment.

Check out www.jobsataramco.com (http://www.jobsataramco.com) for available jobs.

[Aloha_KSA]

Contract fixed wing pilots at Aramco have been informed by the Chief Pilot that the evaluation period of contract pilots during which they will be considered for permanent employment will "fluctuate". That means that the one year evaluation period the contractors were initially lead to expect has been extended to an indefinite period. The low price of oil and company-wide hiring and budget cuts are blamed for this.

As someone noted above, life as an Aramco contractor is significantly different from that of a permanent employee. If you see an ad for Aramco fixed-wing pilots offering anything other than contract pay with no medical insurance, no retirement benefits, and no family housing, it is false.

Contractors are not allowed to bring their families to live in Saudi Arabia, do not have health insurance or retirement benefits, and can only obtain a temporary six month multi-entry visa that requires leaving the country once every 30 days. The contract does provide for 3 weeks off every 10 weeks, but there is no pay during this period beyond a travel stipend.

FYI.

[congoshane]

Hi there.
Does anyone have any info on the fixed-Wing Air Tractor-802 positions at Saudi Aramco

[ironbird123]

Any fixed wing hiring going on please? Thanks much

[BoracayBoi]

Do they still hire Filipino flight attendants? All my colleagues used to work in that company. I just don't know who is the recruitment agency monitoring and hiring for flight attendants now.

[opster]

A tear has come to my eye... The last Aramco twaters are gone. Just saw 660MA and 663MA in Trade-A-Plane. Rumor has it they are headed for down under. (The interiors certainly looked better than I remembered!)

Opster

[Aloha_KSA]

Twin-otters gone, two Hawkers 800A- (N710A and N722A) also, but replaced by 900XPs, next go Dash-8s to be replaced by King Air 200, and ERJ 170. B737 will eventually go away, too, leaving just ERJs, King Airs, Hawkers, Gulf Streams, Air Tractors.

I believe rotor wing is hiring, don't know who to contact, though. Fixed wing not hiring yet, but maybe 2011. Flight attendants always hiring, but don't know who contractor is. I'll ask around.

To all who come to work for Saudi Aramco, don't quit whatever job you're leaving until you're sure the company is going to employ you under the terms that they agreed to. Many a pilot here has been the victim of the ol' bait and switch. Also, living in Allah's Great Litterbox is not for everyone.

[NGFellow]

Why are they getting rid of the B737? Didn't ARAMCO have them for almost 20 years?

[411A]

Didn't ARAMCO have them for almost 20 years?

Longer...maybe they are worn out by now.:}

[NGFellow]

They used to have a DC-8 and several B-737-200's which were replaced by a B767 and several B-737NGS. So that part of the fleet is pretty new.
Embraer must have offered them a sweet deal.

[FieldsCoburn]

Any time frame for 737s leaving Aramco?

[Riggwelter]

We still have 5 737NGs, and have replaced our 3 Dash 8's with 3 EMB 170's, last flight for the Dash 8 was this week. If the EMB 170 works out the plan is to replace the 737NG's with EMB 190's around 2015 when the 737's come up for D checks. Anyone have any infor regarding how well the EMB's perform at Saudia/Gulf Air?

[mutt]

Based on the altitudes that you guys appear to fly at, you wont enjoy the E170 during the summer, its a hard ride when compared to the 737.

Mutt

[aataz40]

I am looking for any information about Armaco's flight department and the current opening for a crew scheduler. If anyone has any information to pass along it would be greatly appreciated. I have searched high and low for more info but the Aramco website doesn't give much. Again...any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[silverhawk]

Have an assessment for Aramco shortly, 737.

Any indications of salary and benefits?

[woodja51]

Thank you for your response.

Here is a link to the aircraft pilot job brief. It has information about the type of aircrafts in the fleet; which includes, Five B-737-700, three Emb 170, two G550, two HS125-900, two King Air 350, one C550, two AT-802. The fleet is USA registered and therefore governed by FAA Part 91 regulation. https://sjobs.brassring.com/1033/ASP/TG/cim_jobdetail.asp?SID=^iC8oNjTe_slp_rhc_KKG0fGGKRKoo5NSbBWka aoLyX/Dmx8/XjkrBluVyQbxjdVg7HzaNIHd&jobId=621010&type=search&JobReqLang=1&recordstart=1&JobSiteId=5396&JobSiteInfo=621010_5396&GQId=0

Also, here is the link to the training captain job brief. https://sjobs.brassring.com/1033/ASP/TG/cim_jobdetail.asp?SID=^iC8oNjTe_slp_rhc_KKG0fGGKRKoo5NSbBWka aoLyX/Dmx8/XjkrBluVyQbxjdVg7HzaNIHd&jobId=606017&type=search&JobReqLang=1&recordstart=1&JobSiteId=5396&JobSiteInfo=606017_5396&GQId=0

We are not an airline, we carry employees from their home to their work locations. Each pilot averages about 400- 500 hrs depending on workloads and manning status. All of our flying is done within the country. Usually , we fly 4-7 sectors a day. Working hours vary between 5-8 hours. At the end all pilots are home with no overnight out of base.

As a training captain , you will be required and responsible to establish and train the company procedures and introduce the airplane to new pilots in the fleet. You will do all the IOE training then release them to the fleet captain who will then do the final check before release online. We are just starting this training department so it will be a chance for the new training captain to excel and be creative in establishing training procedures. Also, at a later stage, you will be part of the recurrent training where , you will travel and observe and check pilots on their recurrent.

Saudi Aramco provides employees and their families with competitive compensation and benefits. Saudi Aramco communities are designed to provide all necessary needs to make life for the employee and his family comfortable. Our communities are so diverse that it has employees from all continents. Comfortable housing within company community with free utilities. Children get free education in US curriculum schools within Aramco communities, or offer 100% reimbursement for local and boarding schools (Any type of curriculum) through the Educational Assistance Plan (EAP). Plenty of extracurricular activities for all ages. Free health care within company medical facilities form all family members. The Company also provides annual travel allowance for employee and dependants to point of origin on full-fare economy. In addition to local holidays, an employee gets 38 calendar days every year as vacation.

[sorath5]

Wood,

Do you have any emails of maintenance hiring guys in Saudi? I'm trying to get it to the right people there, not Houston. Thanks in advance.:ok:

[Spread da Aloha]

If you have a strong tolerance for bullshiite a person could in theory make a lot of money at aramco, just be sure to get it in writing up front, and personally I would refuse a contractor position. If you have athsma dont even think about it. The dust gets in absolutely everything. Even the food and water.

[DoomedTX]

I've been lurking for a while and joined today because this seems to be the best resource for specific information about the jobs Aramco offers. I'm wondering if someone working there now could give me an idea if it's worth applying. I'm a career military aviator with over 4,000 hours, most of them in the C-130. I also have instructor time in the E.26 Tamiz (T-35 Pillan) and flew the C-26 (SA-227DC) and T-1A (Mitsubishi Diamond). I'm typed in the Herk, C-26 and T-1A, but my time and currency are mainly in the C-130.

I'm somewhat familiar with the region from my many deployments. In fact, I'm sitting in a military compound right now flying Herks from an "undisclosed location" in the ME. We've also spent time in Turkey, and I swear the Aramco housing pictures looked exactly like Incirlik base housing before they renovated it in 2007. The wife's not opposed to the idea of trying out the Aramco lifestyle.

I know the ATP is mandatory and will likely be getting a 737 type from someplace like Higher Power in Dallas, but there's no way I'm going to meet the recency/currency levels most people are talking about here for any of Aramco's planes. Does it seem like I'll have a shot with Aramco with my flying experience?

Also, if any current or recent pilots are willing/able to share salary&benefit info beyond what the company discloses, I'd love to hear it. From what I've been able to find online and some folks here with SA experience, I've heard everything from "they pay for every expense" to "you pay for everything yourself." I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

Thanks for the time!

[AMMY]

do anyone know how to apply at aramco please :ugh:

[Aksai Oiler]

I'm looking at a project in the Shaybah field; could anyone advise me how frequent are the Saudi Aramco flights to OESB ? Either by replying to this message or PM

Thanks

Oiler

[Panama Jack]

I believe OESB flights are at least daily.

[jackx123]

it's all on the aramco web. as far as pilots there is a shortage of helicopter jocks

[Plzbegood]

Hi all. I have embr 170 and 737 experiance. I was looking at applying at ARAMCO but heard through a friend that used to work there that the aviation departments, fixed wing and heli are going to be out sourced in the next few years. Does anyone that works there currently know anything about this? Would it be worth while to come across even for a short period of time?

Thanks in advance.

[CaptainProp]

No idea about outsourcing but they are recruiting for "fixed wing" pilots now.

[Mach Speed]

I'm new to the forum. Can any Aramco Aviation guy answer the following questions for me please?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

What is the interview process like?
What is their hiring criteria for new FOs?
How long after the interview do they inform you of their decision?

Thanks a lot..

[jackx123]

What is the interview process like?
You need to complete the online application. After that there is a very rigorous background check as if you apply for the agency. Trust me they check everything, medical record from birth onwards, including all jabs needed etc..

What is their hiring criteria for new FOs?
As stated on the web. Unless you match the criteria. Don't bother applying

How long after the interview do they inform you of their decision?
Depends but usually 2-3 months and another 2-3 for work permits etc to be sorted. However, it's taken 6-8 months to be called for the interview in some cases. If successful you will be given an assistant to guide you through the whole process.

[aallie007]

hi

i want to do a CPL course

do u know of any companies that hire fresh CPL holders?

what are other ways of building hours?

anyone know what are the minimum requirements for Saudia airlines?

thanks

[jackx123]

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/415920-saudi-airlines-ab-initio-program.html

[Mach Speed]

Thanks Jackx...appreciate it. Are you flying for Aramco? What capacity and what aircraft?

[Sattyrant]

Good day guys, Can anyone give me details about Saudi Aramco pilot interview? I have a scheduled interview for the end of the month. Any info that can be helpful! Thanks.

[Cair117]

Gentleman good day, current Nas air 190 capt from the US looking to jump ship to aramco. Can any current guy pm me about QOL, pay and bennies. Much appreciated.

[M8ndy]

Hi I currently do cabin crew & love my job it has always been my dream. I'm now looking to work on a private jet for families ideally 1 month on 1 month off i have searched the Internet & what iv found is it's based on luck been found on the job.if anyone has any info that would be lovely thank you.

[Hivibegirl]

Hi I can give you only what I know and I will be truthful. I worked for saudi aramco and it has taken a long 7 years to get my life sorted out again. I am also looking for more people with the same experiences. Please think carefully before you work for them. I am a private flight attendant and an honest one with good work ethics. I was bullied endlessly to date the passengers and accept money from them.. all different people with different bullying techniques. I was threatened with the sack if I didnt take illegal money and tell lies to the pilots. I said I wouldnt do this as it is not team work. I was told I might lose my job. My supervisors never once backed me up. They also saw me being molested by a pax. I ended up drugged and questioned a military technique by some marines, who also work for aramco... In hospital having a near death experience... Drugged and questioned again which is actually and scarily a recognised form of torture. All because I spoke up and asked questions. I also told the lawyer that as our contracts were illegal if all the girls were prostitutes then this company might be in trouble.. They are the most corrupt company with no respect for human life.. This is true and there are many false rumours you might here about the story.. Its taken me 7 years to feel safe, hundreds of letter liasing with MP s in the UK, newspapers, saudi government and washington.. I know I can sue but they very nearly destroyed my life.. This was just the beginning by the way.. No health care and bullying techniques and even telling untrue stories about what happened to me... Even in hospital the denials have been incredible but it has been hard work for 7 years to get my story out there.. Please dont work for them... If I tell my true story others will come forward and I think we will all see the truth of this company. Yours Sincerely Maxine x

[Hivibegirl]

Please dont work for them they have no respect for human life at all... I am hoping more people will come forward with there stories.. Probably all cabin crew but possibly others... Please think carefully before you go to work with saudi aramco, I am lucky to be alive and had no health care no support as it was easier to deny my story than deal with the fact that I was somehow drugged and questioned. They worried more about an insurance pay out, and pretty much tried to get rid of me. Literally.. Please dont work for them... Yours Sincerely Maxine x

[Riggwelter]

I'm almost embarrassed to dignify the previous post with a response. "Maxine's" claims about working conditions in Aramco defy belief. I can only surmise that someone is trolling, or very bored.
Anyone who does even a cursory search will see that this story falls into a category of its own.
I've already wasted enough of my time any everyone else reading this by addressing the claim with a response.

[FuelLeak]

7 years! I left after 1 month. Even the chief pilot at that time was diagnose as bipolar and he was in charge!

[aramcawy]

I read this whole thread and can safely say that it does contain a lot of accurate information especially for expats.

Having working for 15 years as Aramco employee ( 5 of them in aviation ) I can also confirm the statement " Saudi F/O's" are the least paid pilots. US expat are those most paid. We have a US pilot currently flying as a PIC in the NG 737 who was previously in the ERJ fleet that is paid 25000$+ a month!! The most in the world u could argue!!

It is very difficult to work in an environment where you absolutely now that the person sitting next to you, who is not doing anything extra or even or than what you are doing and still get paid 3 or 4 times your salary!! The only difference is the passport color.

I had a talk with one of the pilots ( an expat of course) saying that his salary pays for his mortgage back home, his bills, and still pocket some!! While the locals are barely can pay the cars installments and the double loans ( company and bank) just for one house!!!! Let's not forget kids school and other monthly expenses!!! By the way the company does not provide any education allowance for locals!!! Nor family allowance!! Those extra salaries we get every year over the other payrolls?!!! Barely cover the expenses I mentioned above!! So I don't want anyone jumping on my case about them.

Local pilot pay (F/O) = 4500$ total package!! ( 15 salaries + 15% vac annually)
Expat pilot = ??????? ( dare to say it's not at least double the local)

SO,.......

The company pays you a basic salary, pays for your taxes, pays for your wife, pays for your kids education, pays for medical, pays for your sick leaves, pays for your visit home, and after all that are still bitching about small stuff like Iqama and work schedule?!!!! Give a break!! What else do you want?!!

This company is a heaven for US expat. Come enjoy it while it lasts. Just don't question our attitudes toward you cuz now you know the truth.

[mutt]

OK, I will bite, what will your salary raise to once you get into the left seat and get seniority? What amount of your final salary will you get as a monthly pension? If you don't like it, go join the airline across at the main terminal, $25-30,000 per month is extremely common for expats and locals with seniority.

[Riggwelter]

Hey Mutt,

Its a valid question, however, Aramco, being an Oil company has a unique answer.

Basically all employees salaries/benefit packages are based on nationality, and vary greatly, these are called payrolls. For example, UK nationals receive a lot of "cash on the barrelhead" but no medical benefits, whereas a Saudi does not receive as generous a cash outlay but instead has medical retirement as well as an interest free loan for a home, and free land. He (excuse the pronoun, but all the pilots are male) also gets medical treatment for his parents, neat huh?

American payroll is probably is the best, cash, benefits etc. I won't go into the details but I've never heard an American pilot complain about renumeration, and us being pilots, thats saying a lot!

Now, getting back to your question, what happens when you make Captain? Well, amazingly, not a whole lot. Our salary structure is based on grade codes (pay grades) similar to the US military; each pay grade has a range and based on performance (very subjective, i might add) you get a performance category, the better the category, the more the annual merit increase. There is a lot of overlap between pay grades, so a lower pay grade with more years of service may actually make more than a new hire with a higher pay grade but less years of service, and hence, less merit increases.

So, when that magic day comes that you assume command, and shoulder all the responsibility inherent to command, what happens pay wise? Nothing. Typically you will make the exact same amount you made the month before as an F/O.

As we are an oil company and not an airline all company employee merit increases are are awarded once a year in July. They range between 2.5-10.0% based on performance (subjectively evaluated) as well as payroll (If a Saudi and an American both received a "Superior" rating, all things being equal (theres formulas) the American payroll typically pays out about 30-40% more (i.e the saudi would get a 7.0% increase vs. 10% for the American). Also, the company does not differentiate between being an engineer, lawyer, or pilot per se, everyone uses the same grade code salary structure.

So, for example, a junior copilot is grade code 11, the same as a junior engineer, and both of their salaries are equal on day one. By the time you make senior captain (grade code (GC) 16) an engineer will have maxed out as "just an engineer" at grade code 14, and would have to move into management to keep up GC wise, or specialize in his field to the point he became a Consultant or Principle Professional (the petroleum engineering Doctorate that invents new ways of finding oil for the company, publishes, creates patents, etc). GC 16 effectively puts you in the top 5% of the company, and is a decent place to be.

But I digress. Basically when you become a Captain you are "eligible" to move up a grade code, but in principle it might take 1-3 years. It certainly, almost never happens in a few months. When you do get grade code promotion they add another 5% to your normal merit increase. Thats it. Every time I moved up through the fleets my salary didn't change 1 riyal until merit increase time, which could be many months away. Typical merit increases range in the 3-8% range, annually, with the lions share in the middle of that range.

As someone who's been here a while, I can say with confidence I do not know of a single Saudi who was making more than $8,000 base salary when they made Boeing Captain. A fresh, off the boat American Co-pilot in the Dash-8 (GC-11) will make $8,500 base salary. Hence, some of the tension.

Having said that, this is only a snapshot of the situation.

Almost all of the Saudi's got full ride scholarships for flight school, graduated with 250 hours, and moved into a guaranteed position in the right seat of a jet, with a decent base salary (about $2,500). To be sure, they are the bright, motivated young men, and they were able to capitalize on the circumstances afforded them, worked hard and made it. There aren't any freebies in Aramco.

Compare that to the westerner who paid for his own training, flew as a CFI for 3 years for food, worked at a commuter and shared a flop house with other pilots while earning servants wages while working very hard, as well as enduring the vagaries of our industry. And you could argue they had a tougher time making it into an Aramco cockpit. To me, there is a significant dollar value that could be correlated to those two situations.

As a Saudi/American(I'm a Mutt, too!), I have enjoyed the benefit of my country and the company's support. It would be truthful to say they made me the man I am, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to pursue my dream. At the same time, I could go to the States, get on with an airline, and try my luck, and make the "real bucks".

No thanks.

While the pay isn't amazing, the benefits are, good medical, good housing, good retirement, SECURITY etc. Aramco is the long game.

A saudi's salary is like an inverse bell curve. At 250 hours, your flying in a jet making $2,500. Thats really good. At 3,000 hours your a captain on an ERJ making $5,000, that kinda stinks. At 10,000 hours you've been flying for 15 years and now your making $10,000 cash on top of all the benefits, and thats pretty darn good. If you put in 35 years with Aramco, as a Saudi, as of today, max salary for a GC 16 is north of $15,000, and retirement with 35 years of service will give you almost full pay for the rest of you AND your wives (fruedian slip, there?) lives, as well as full medical, and a very, very generous housing program.

I've compared renumeration between a US airline and Saudi Aramco (as a Saudi) and I could not do better than staying here, in the long run.

Mutt, I appreciate you calling the topic out, its a valid question.

But not getting anything extra(money wise) for moving from the right seat to the left seat stinks.

[Trackdiamond]

Any FAA FSDO office in Saudi? Please PM me.

[drag king]

Is it truly an all-American-only pilot company as the Pilot Career Center's page (http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carrier-PCC-Profile/105/Aramco) says?

DK :rolleyes:

[aramcawy]

Its been a while since someone wrote anything here. I work in Saudi Aramco and very happy to answer any questions related to the jobs or the company.

Most of the info in this thread are outdated. We have new management, new aircraft on its way and significant changes in the company's GI.

I am sorry to say though that the weather is still the same and probably will never change and will never ever get used to it especially in the summer.

[mutt]

What new types are they talking about?

[aramcawy]

No new types. -800W instead of the current -700 AND ERJ. We are unifying our line fleet.

[argentina21]

Is Aramco hiring?

[aramcawy]

The company is always hiring. Preference are given to locals. Any non-locals apply through the branch in Houston, Tx.

The only thing that sucks about it is the hiring process itself which could take on average 4 to 6 months (For expats only)

[Masagemarad]

Don't waste your time all the flying in the region is going down the drain with the price of oil down and these companies are just trying to pick up locals to keep the costs down of having to buy airline tickets etc

[aramcawy]

Don't waste your time all the flying in the region is going down the drain with the price of oil down and these companies are just trying to pick up locals to keep the costs down of having to buy airline tickets etc
... all the flying in the region is going down the drain...

The statement is not accurate. Aramco pays expat very well. Their paying scheme is a fixed monthly salary with all other benefits are paid for regardless of flying or duty hours.

Not sure who pi$$ed you off but you don't seem to be happy with Nexus. Can you elaborate more?

[localizer28]

Guys,

I haven't posted here for a good while now but I feel obliged to share my experiences with Aramco.

I know a handful of Aramco employees (present and retired) and they all agree that Aramco is a great employer. Based on their recommendation, I applied in mid 2014. Standard procedure, online application with reference number. I did get a little bit of inside help from someone high up in the flight department. Whether or not it actually served the purpose to get HR to look at my application I will probably never find out.

Anyway, about half a year after my initial application, I was invited to attend an interview which was held at CAE Dubai. The interview was relaxed and very professional. It was administered by 2 pilots from the Aramco flight department and monitored by one more HR guy. All of them were Saudis. The SIM assessment was done on the B-737 simulator. Very standard profile without any surprises - takeoff with engines running. One of the Saudis from the interview panel was in the right seat and served as PM. Takeoff on heading to 10.000 feet, followed by airwork (to get a feel for the aircraft handling, trim, pitch & power), followed by a hand flown visual approach and a touch & go. Next was an ILS, during which I was given an engine fire (around GS intercept). Flew it to the ground, doing only the neccesary items to secure the enigne. Landing and that was it. No feedback, no critique, just a thank you and you will hear from us.

Another half year later, without any correspondence inbetween, I receive an e-mail from the Houston HQ, inquiting whether I was still available to join. I confirmed and a few days later I was asked to fill out some more forms and submit my most recent documents. Another 10 days later I was offered a full-time position with the Aramco Aviation Department.

So much for my application process/progress. It all took a good year from the time of first applying to receiving a formal job offer.

Before I share with you how it all ended, here are a few things to keep in mind:

- Aramco is not an aviation company as we all know it. First and foremost Aramco is and always will be OIL. Their Aviation Department (this is literally how they refer to it) is just one of many branches of their vast operation and serves the purpose to shuttle employees between the oil fields (Boeing/Embraer) and also to transport their executives around the world (Hawker/Gulfstream/767).

- According to their philosophy, you are not hired as a Captain or a Co-Pilot. You are hired as simply as a service provider (in this case an "Aircraft Pilot"). This goes especially for the salary structure. Aramco will slot their pilots into what they call "Salary Code", and an Aircraft Pilot is pretty high up in the overall Aramco salary code already, and any promotion from the right to the left seat doesn't neccesarily imply a move up to the next salary code. Any pilot who joins Aramco will fly from the right seat regardless and will move on to the left seat when such position opens up and based on performance and seniority.
Aramco also differentiates between "single" and "family" status, but this is of lesser significance and will therefore not be the subject matter of my contribution here.
n.b. While I have all the numbers (salary & benefits) readily available, please understand that I cannot share them publically.

- since Aramco is essentially a US company, they do unfortunately distinguish between US citizens and non-US citizens (referred to as "Global"). Therefore, there is a "US payroll" and a "Global payroll". THE CONDITIONS ARE DIFFERENT!

And this is where we return to my adventure with Aramco where we left it a few minutes ago:

I am not a US citizen. Therefore, my job offer with Aramco was based on the conditions of the Global payroll. While the salary is pretty much the same, the employees on the Global payroll ARE NOT entitled to the following:

- to live on camp. You will need to find and rent (pay) your own accomodation on the Saudi side of things OUTSIDE of any of the Aramco camps.

- Aramco schooling. Even though you are an Aramco employee, your kids will not be able to attend the Aramco schools. You will have to find a local school (again on the Saudi side of life), either private or government, and pay for that as well.

Aramco does offer to provide rental assistance as well as an Educational Assistance Plan, but the fact of the matter remains that as a Global employee, you will live OFF CAMP and the kids will not be eligible to attend the Aramco schools.

In short: what you see on their website (all the high-gloss pictures of life and benefits in the Aramco world, e.g. women on the beach in swimsuits, women driving cars) DO NOT APPLY if you are are an employee on the Global payroll.

Consider the following before making your final decision:

- is your family willing to live in Dammam City (off camp, in Saudiland)?
- can you / do you want to go and look for a suitable off-camp school for your kids?
- does your wife know that she needs to cover up entirely while out of the house in Saudi-Arabia?
- does your wife know that women are not allowed to drive a car in Saudi-Arabia? You will need to hire a full-time driver or budget funds for regular taxi trips to get the kids to and from school and the wife to and from the shopping centres.
- Saudi-Arabia in general isn't quite as clean and tidy as what the pictures on the Aramco website might lead you to think. But keep in mind, those pictures were taken within the Aramco compound, but that is NOT where you will be living your life.

I am attaching a copy of the e-mail that I received from Aramco notifiying me of this situation:

QUOTE

Subject: Notification of change in company housing availability


Dear Mr. (........),

The purpose of this communication is to advise you of a change to the availability of company-provided housing in Saudi Arabia. Due to our continued growth and expansion, the supply of Saudi Aramco company-provided housing has become very limited. As a result, we will provide you with a Rental Assistance Allowance in lieu of company-provided housing until more housing becomes available for bidding.
In addition, if you are being hired on family status and have school-aged children, as you will not be provided with Saudi Aramco housing, your children will not be eligible to attend Saudi Aramco schools. Instead, you will be eligible for the Educational Assistance Plan which will assist you with paying for your children’s schooling in Saudi Arabia or overseas. Should you later move to company-provided housing as it becomes available, your children would then be eligible to attend Saudi Aramco schools.
Housing
When you first arrive, you will be accommodated in company-provided transient housing, if available. If transient housing is not available, you will be provided a daily full per diem (lodging, meals, and incidentals) and a transportation per diem. The initial per diems will be up to 30 days. An extension of an additional 30 days may be approved by your Department Head with the total (initial and extension) not to exceed 60 days. This will allow you time to obtain your residency permit, receive your Rental Assistance Allowance, and manage your rental arrangements; including visiting apartment complexes/houses and selecting a unit that matches your preferences and budget.
To ease your transition, Saudi Aramco’s Community Services Department has an office dedicated to providing support to new hires after arrival. You will also be provided with the names and addresses of expatriate compounds and real estate agencies who deal in individual house/apartment rentals.
Schools
We recommend that you contact schools in Saudi Arabia to ensure there are available spaces in the school of your choice. Attached a list of selected schools for your easy reference. You will also be eligible for the Saudi Aramco Education Assistance Plan, which provides for boarding school options you may wish to consider.
Acknowledgement
We kindly request that you acknowledge your understanding of the above situation by signing and returning a copy of this notification to your relocation advisor.

UNQUOTE

In closing, it was the above that made me and my family turn down the Aramco offer of employment. The mouth-watering images and the apparent American way of life that you see on their website was not going to be for us.

Would I still recommend them? Yes, but only if you are either a US Citizen or a single-status employee who doesn't mind not being allowed to reside in the Aramco compound.

I honestly hope that my contribution was of value and will provide guidance to anyone who is contemplating working for Aramco.

PM me with any further questions.

[mutt]

See lots of nice 737's around the place and understand that they have a number of G650's, so whats life like in Aramco these days?

[mushmonster]

DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS COMPANY LIKE BASE, PAY , INFO ?
One of my friends received an e-mail from Saudi Aramco. They offered her a really good position in Abu Dhabi and asked for a little personal information (fortunately she didn't give any). After a while, the offer was turned out to be fake. If you receive such offers, make sure they are real because this company has many rivals and fake parties.

[robbie2618]

Can anyone give a rough ball park figure as to what the A&P mechanics make at Saudi Aramco? I have a interview coming up. Thanks

[Riggwelter]

Hello all,

Some cool news:

Saudi Aramco Aviation has selected and will be sending 3 Saudi women to Ab Initio fixed wing training in the next couple months. I don't know what the selection process is like, but I'd expect it to be the same as for the guys, ie. rigorous but doable if you're motivated and work hard.

I'm proud to say that we've begun integrating women into many areas in the Department and by and large its been a non event.