Final approach to finals...

[steamchicken]

Right! In a very few months I will (inshallah!) be graduating from London University. I am (or I wouldn't be here) desperate to fly, and the next question is how... I am looking for advice on whether to stick my degree in my pocket and start struggling to get a cadetship (not many going), stick the degree in my pocket and look for a crappy job in order to pay off some of my Nigerian deficit sized student debts before taking on another wedge of debts, or take a master's degree - there is the possibility of getting funding for this option, so not putting too much more on the debt pile.

Advantages of a) are: If you want something to happen, you better do it!

Disadvantages of a) are: No money. Not many jobs, not many c/ships, could get worse in the event of war.

Adv. of b) are: start earning and relieve aching finances, possibly get another option in reserve. If the money goes well, it could even be possible to start on the modular route later. Wait out the crisis.

Disadv. of b) are: Putting time into a job that may lead nowhere, and if things get worse yet, making money could be hard.

Adv. of c) are: Sit out the crisis and go in with more certainty about prospects later. The Masters can hardly do harm and might do good - could do a lot of good if I don't eventually go into aviation. If funding available, then the finances should at least not get any worse.

Disadv. of c) are: Could be a wasted year, and includes the grim danger of becoming an academic!

Comments anyone?

[FlyingForFun]

A. is no good - there are few if any cadetships around at the moment, and that's not going to change any time soon.

C. seems like a waste of a year. You're going to have to fund your ATPL(f), so why wait? There aren't many careers where a Masters gets you much more money than a Bachelors degree.

So that leaves B. Yes, you might be putting effort into a career that's leading nowhere - but you're going to have to fund your training somehow, and that will involve working. You have to do B. eventually, so now's a good time to do it.

Good luck!

FFF
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[Dotun]

I agree with FlyingForFun, option (b) is good. Consider American FAA or south african CAA if you want to fly in Nigeria.

Regards
Dotun

[Penguina]

I think I'm gonna disagree with my good friend FFF here - C is not a waste of time at all. Unless (like most people round here) you're an IT whizz or your first degree is in something that leads directly to something (eg - law), you won't earn that much in your first five years of work anyway and it will probably be tedious initially whatever you do. A year is nothing in the big scheme, and, if you're interested in your discipline it looks a lot better than me to crowded tube trains and office squabbles.

Working on the principle that you're not going to get a flying job very soon (!), it must be worth first considering what you would be aiming for if planes didn't exist. (In my opinion.) There is no job you just get, every proper career needs single minded determination. Those of us who are holding out for flying run the risk of living life as a compromise forever.

Of course, it depends what the masters in in and all that. I have one friend who needed a masters in meteorology just to get the sort of job he wanted, and one who has one in Modernist novels because she couldn't face being a secretary...

[witchdoctor]

Why not combine b and c?

If you actually reside in the South, there are absolutely loads of small operators (pleasure trips/aerial photos/flying clubs etc) who are about to start their busy season (mostly VFR ops) and will be looking for seasonal help.

Ask around and get in there while you can. Probably crap money, but you could make some potentially useful contacts, put some dosh in the bank and get in a load of work before the academic season kicks off again for the Masters. Once back at Uni, the work should start to die down a little towards the end of the year, but it may have led to something which you might be able to continue whilst completeing your studies.

In the meantime, apply for a (don't ask, don't get and you never know), and if unsuccessful, at least you are getting some experience in the aviation community for later if that is still what you want to do.

Why limit your options when you can do all 3? Just don't try to do a self-funded ATPL right now - wait and see how things pan out.

[No. 2]

FFF-Although your advice is generally of the highest calibre I'd have to disagree with you regarding the master's option!

Steamchicken, I wouldn't rule out completing your master's degree, but only if it is something that you find interesting; you musn't do it for the sake of it. More and more people are going to university and so the competition is getting increasingly fierce for post graduate jobs. If you have a master's degree then that'll give you a very good advantage. Certainly in engineering, a master's is actually becoming compulsory for chartership. I'm on the graduate engineering scheme with the MoD and most of those on it hold master's degrees and I belive the entrance for that scheme now stipulates that one is required. Just keep your options open as a doing a master's now may prove to be invaluable in the future.

However, I sympathise with you wanting to get rid of some of that debt and it will probably get worse before it gets any better. I'm in a similar situation to yourself and my financial situation also makes third world countries look well off.

Let us know what you decide:)

No. 2

[icemaiden]

Hey chicken - you guys still running cocktails at ULU on a weds night? oh the memories...

Anyway, as far as the training situation goes, I dont really think A is a useful idea at the moment. Considering the low number of jobs available, and the standards of the jobs which are available (a lot of pilots are not exactly happy at the moment) would really advise you to follow B or C. Nothing worse than the debt the size of several large countries, having to follow route B and then having to pay out to keep various bits of paper current (know some people in that situation, and sorry but its real).

B is quite obvious, and if you have really had enough of the debt and stress (who hasnt after finals?) then good luck. Aviation is a big industry, sure you wouldnt be as happy working within it without flying? at least initially but maybe in the long term you could find something to equal your passion for flying?

C - well that depends a lot on what you are reading, and what you would take a masters in. Having done two very specialised masters I can assure you that IF its worth doing commercially it will pay you back. Its generally tougher than you expect though and if you are looking at it to back up a qualification or to transform your credentials it wont. What it can do is allow you the space to specialise and if its the right course will open some doors for you. All depends on what you are looking for. It certainly wont make you any better as a pilot, though if you do end up following another path it may leave you better equiped either to do so or to finance your training in (hopefully) a better climate.

As for the fear of becoming an academic... not with one masters
:) that only happens to those who go looking... and Im still hiding.

Good luck with your finals, and good luck with your flying (were you ULAS by any chance?) if you want any more info on the Masters let me know.

[steamchicken]

Thanks so far...back onto the agenda!

[FlyingForFun]

Steamchicken,

Having discussed this in the pub yesterday with Penguina and her boyfriend (yes, we really don't have lives!), we came to the conlusion that we need to know what your degree is in, and what industry you will be looking for work in. The advice I gave was based on my experience of the IT industry, and if we're talking about IT then I'll stick by it. But as others have pointed out, it doesn't necessarilly apply in other industries.

FFF
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[Penguina]

witchdoctor:

What kind of seasonal work can you get in aviation? I'm interested. And what chances of keeping it through the winter months?

[Lucifer]

I agree with the above - you really need to indicate what your degree and subsequent masters is, in order to advise you on your best options. Is it research or taught etc.

There really are careers that can get you better paid with a Masters, especially in the current situation where there are so many Bachelors chasing few jobs, and a Masters makes you that bit better. Though it may be that the job only requires you to have a Bachelors in the current times a Masters results in you being paid more since you can get the job ahead of Bachelors.

Unfortunately we are ending up like the US where a Bachelors is something everyone has anyway, and ever more letters after you name are required to differentiate you from the majority.

B or C certainly are the best routes but don't end up flipping burgers - a degree is more valuable and can get you experience that any aviation employer could find useful.

[witchdoctor]

Penguina,

Check your PMs.

WD

[steamchicken]

My BA is "European Studies" which equals German + Modern History + Economic History.. the MSc I am considering is in International Relations, it's a taught course with, according to the programme, a lot about terrorism in it. My favourite alternative career for the long term would be in journalism (I've spent much of the last five years writing lumps of student newspapers, fanzines and the like). Probably doomed...

[empty pockets]

been reading all of the above and........

if flying is really what you want to do, then I would put off the masters unless you can get onto the course without graduating from your bachelors degree.

i am doing a masters in aero engineering, but only decided upon it as the airline jobs market last year was dire, and my department allowed me to step up from the 3 year BEng to the 4 year MEng without graduating (i.e. still get support from the LEA/Student Loans and the tuition fees are only £1100 rather than closer to £5K)

As for increased earnings, I have found that the majority of the places I have applied to for a graduate job (to fund my flight training) are only offering between £500 - £1000 extra salary per year for having the MEng rather than BEng. As I only intend to be in industry for the duration of the time it takes to get a flying job, this wont cover the approx £7k extra its costing me (fees + loan + living expenses) to do the extra year.

However, the best thing about the masters route is that you are getting a higher level of education, and that many employees (the ones i'm speaking to anyway) regard a 2.1 masters as the equivalent of a 1st class bachelors. you also have evidence of committing yourself to the course, which the airlines may look favourably on when applying for a cadetship.

also (and this is the best reason for another year).......................................

.CHEAP BEER AND EASY WOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!