South Africa PPL training - FTC

[digga]

Hi there,

Has anyone been to FTC South Africa?
I'm thinking of doing my PPL there and was wondering if anyone would recommend it or not..?
Alternatively, are there any other good FTO's in SA where I can gain a JAA PPL?

cheers
dig

[big bus driver]

Hi, I got my SA PPL at Algoa flying club in Port Elizabeth, thought the training was good and the people are certainly friendly.

The main reason I went there though is because it is within a 30 minute walk (or a £1 taxi ride) from the beachfront / centre of town, and as I know South Africe pretty well I knew that PE is a nice enough place, with reasonable nightlife and loads to do. The weather can sometimes be unfriendly to the pilots but I guess thats a similar story all along the SA coast.

CapeTown is also a good city to base yourself but if you want to fly from there you've got a 20-odd minute drive out to the airport. Last time I was there there was no regular bus so hiring a car was the only way to get there.

I've got no idea where FTC is, but what I am certain of is they'll not be able to offer JAR licenses, you still have to come back, either get 100 p1 hours, or do all the uk exams and min hours requirement, plus 5 hours radio-nav, then sit the UK skills test before you get the JAR PPL.

Still, getting the flying hours in over in SA is certainly cheaper than over here.

All the best,
BBD

[digga]

Help! Now I'm really confused..

I called FTC-South Africa (based in UK) and the lady on the phone said they offer a full JAR PPL training sylabus and that I'd be fully qualified to fly in the UK when I got back...

Can anyone confim wether this college is JAR approved or not? They say they are.. so why would I need to do more skills tests etc in UK to fly here. Surely a JAR PPL allows the holder to fly in any JAR state?!? :(

[Atlanta]

I understand that FTC have some kind of link up with Air Atlantique (now Atlantic Air) in Coventry. In effect, it would seem that AA have sub-contracted the flying training to FTC. This means, yes you can get a JAA licence through training at FTC, but AA may be involved in some way. I suggest you contact AA for more accurate details.

[Quicksilver]

Digga,

You can fly in the UK on a South African licence, without any conversion. All you have to do is get back to Blighty and take a check ride with your local flying school and you can hire (it's an insurance thing - you would have to do this with a JAR PPL unless you trained with the school).

It is useful to get intouch with the CAA and ask them to send you a copy of the actual document that states that pilots with ICAO PPL's can exercise the privilages of those licences in the UK. Some schools may say that you need further training to qualify to fly in the UK, but this is not correct.

I have flown regularily from a couple of different clubs in the UK with my South African PPL. No problems.

On the licence offered........

So on that note, check exactly what they are offering, the SA PPL is modelled on the JAR licence, but is not a JAR licence, so unless they have approval from the CAA, meaning that you'll return with a JAR Licence, it is not the same thing and you'll still have to meet the minimum hours PIC to convert your licence to JAR.

Make them classify exactly - will you return with a JAR licence, or are you coming back with an South African PPL that will have to be converted to a JAR licence.


There are several other FTO's, to name a couple.

- Cape Flying Services - George
- Phoebus Apollo - Jo'burg

Have a look in the back of FLYER, they all have adverts.

Please let us know what they say about the licences!

Cheers

Quicksilver

[big bus driver]

Apologies if I confused you... its just what I was told by some "helpful" person at the CAA back in April time.

So am I right in thinking I can hire an a/c from my local flying school and take it wherever I like with whoever I like in the UK on my SA PPL? My UK based FTO confirmed what I thought the CAA were telling me, so I've been plugging away at the paper exams healthily feeding the coffers of my FTO for no reason.

What about the radio licence, does that convert straight across too or do I need a JAR one of them too?

Cheers all,
BBD

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: big bus driver ]

[digga]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Quicksilver - I called FTC-SA again and spoke to the top dog there. He said they offer full JAA approved PPL and that they are the only college in SA to do so. He also said that there are only a handful of FTO's in the world who offer such licences outside the EU (I assume most are in the US).

I'm going to give the CAA a call to confirm tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Ps. I called my local flying school today who said I'd have to do a check ride when I got back and also the UK RT exam before I could fly there on my own. Maybe different schools have different policies re. JAA PPL's gained elsewhere. Anyone any thoughts on this?

[theodor]

Hey all
I know a lot about FTC, and it seems to be great. 3 of my freinds have taken their ppl down there, jar ppl, and they are vere satisfied. I´m going there if their ME/ir jar comes through. Already they are approved for atpl ground school. They are cheap, fast, experienced and they care about you. I´m not a student there but still they keep me updated on all that is going on. If only we had schools like that in europe.

[Chris2]

Also consider 43 Air School in Port Alfed.
An excellent school with a structured training program and all the facilities you need.
Great scenery - try and spot some whales when you fly along the coast ! www.43airschool.com (http://www.43airschool.com)
Cheers
Dutchie

[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: Dutchie2 ]

[Chris2]

Digga do yourself a favour
Diggaround :D in the archives and look at which schools consistently get good reports and which schools consistently don't.

Then email a few people, try to get some phone numbers, and actually speak to them. When I was in your shoes 3 years ago I narrowed my search down to 3 schools, and I managed to speak to people who had been to each. You will be surprised what you find out that way !

You are going to spend a lot of money so the research is worth it. Incidently I did my training at aforementioned school in Port Alfred and managed to find a job straight away. Now more than 6 of my collegues come from the same school..... that should tell you something.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Cheers Dutchie

[big bus driver]

I agree with Dutchie, theres some useful info at aeropages.co.za you can look through, if you haven't already.

I have heard 43 Air School is excellent, both from the flying instructors at Algoa, where I trained, and from my club back here in the UK. The only think that put me off was its location (being a 20-something backpacker I fancied the varied social life that PE could offer, versus the college environment)

It's your hard-earned cash at the end of the day so you got to spend it wisely!

Hope it goes well, and where-ever you end up I'm sure you'll enjoy the flying, and the scenery, its spectacular.

Cheers,
Mark

[Jam Doughnuts]

Hi Digga

Did my PPL long ago in SA and flew around in the UK, without any conversion of licences, eventually after a year got the CAA to give me a UK PPL and night rating after writing the airlaw exam, getting a medical and doing a quick flight test.... now though, its a different story the eurocrats have confused everything and everyone with JAR OPS, even the CAA now or whats left of it will be hard pressed to give you a straight answer...depends very much on the day and who you speak to as to what is their particular interpretaion of the rules.... best advice before you start shopping around.. get some definitive answer from CAA in the UK, in writing and not just one of the free's GIDs they give you... they pretty useless and don't answer your question... it will take perseverance to get an answer and probably a visit to the green house at Gatwick, but it will be money well spent...
Then my advice along with the other guys, is do your research well, having heard many stories over the years about flight schools what they do and what they don't...and seen most of it first hand . :D ..
I worked in one answering all these questions before eventually getting the CPL and escaping..... It very much depends what you looking for...SA is a great place to do your PPL, have a holiday and learn to fly.... bear in mind also that with the difference in exchange your training is getting cheaper the longer you wait... just think a twin like a duchess is 270 pounds an hour in the UK excluding the landing fees... in SA its around ZAR 1075 with instructor and landing fees.... and at around 15 ZAR to a pound..... maybe me thinks your getting a bargin......

Dutchie... you not on contract some place are you ??? perhaps luanda ?? :cool:

[Chris2]

Jam Doughnut

You old chutney ferret... with a profile like yours .. how's the DRC?!! :D :D :D

Cheers my cuzzin from sunny sand land.

[pugzi]

FTC??
Well i was there for about 2 years, and to be honest they couldn't give a hoot about anyone other than themselves. Their ATPL ground school is shocking to say the least. Even the instructors who were there said so themselves and were fired as a result.
They have had happy students but a lot of very unhappy ones.
On a good note, flying there is tremendous fun, you'll never experience that kind of flying again in your life, so i'd recommend it massively.
The flying Instructors are excellent and very friendly, the management not so, they have stung a lot of people with promises.
Anyway, research, and never ever believe the "top dogs", they will tell you it's all wonderfull, speak to as many others who have been students, they know the real story.
Even though I had problems, actually massive ones with the school, i'd never regret flying or geting my licence in South Africa, I had a ball.
I personaly recommend 43rd air school, they are fantastic. I knew many of the instructors, the school is by the sea, and they are bit more realistic. Enjoy.
Contact me if you want.

[BillyFish2]

Check out the Good Hope Flying School if you want to consider Cape Town. They're based in Cape Town Int., so you'll get to mix it with the big boys (especially around 8am and 5pm). Very friendly enthusiastic bunch of instructors there and I can safely say none of them seem remotely interested in making any money. All any of the instructors wanted to do was go fly and teach novices like
me. By the way there was no 'management' as such, just a very friendly club president. The CFI seemed to run the whole show and bloody good too. Check out their site www.ghfc.org.za. (http://www.ghfc.org.za.) The rates have to be seen to be believed.

Weather down there is the dog's whatchamacallums but early stage training should definitely be done in the morning. After about 1pm in summer days, the wind blows a gale.

A couple of people did their PPL in 4-5 weeks when I was there. Looked like hard work.

Only drawbacks are the airport is a bit of drive out of town and you'll need accommodation (in town preferably).

Best months by far: Dec - April but accommodation v.expensive Dec and Jan.
Flying in the Western Cape: fantastic, exciting, heaven, etc, etc...

[Jaffo]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I was about to post a question about hour building in SA. I'm going to Cape Town in Jan for a wedding and am hoping to do about 25 hours while there. I have looked at ghfc and a few others in the area but as yet have had no response from e-mails. Can anyone recommend any clubs/schools within reasonable striking distance of Cape Town that would be able to help me out

[Jam Doughnuts]

Hi Guys.. all this talking of Cape town...ah yes..... got me thinking a bit perhaps you should even look to having a look at Stellenbosch flying club.. remember once having to ferry a stranded 172 back to JHB, arrived out of the blue accomodated in the clubhouse overnight and given breakfast and a heads up of the local area before setting off back to the High Veld.....nice people and they even teach you to fly... none of the hassles of the long drive etc etc of Cape Town.... well just a thought.

Dont have the number with me but will be able to get hold of them in a weeks time if any takers ????

God these old farts reminiscing.... :) :)

[Token Bird]

As someone who is at FTC now, I would say that the standard of instructing here is variable. The school is also very disorganised and although their rates seem cheap, they will charge you for briefings (which they will drag on for as long as possible to get as much money out of you as possible), crap photocopied checklists etc...

Now is definitely not a good time to come down. We have too many students and too few planes. Yesterday a bad crosswind landing by a PPL student in one of our Pipers resulted in the loss of a nosewheel, left undercarriage and presumably engine damage as a result of the prop ending up stuck in the grass. Consequently insurance problems have meant that none of the students are allowed to fly solo in our three newest planes (the only ones anyone wants to fly anyway), regardless of how experienced they are. For people like me who are here to do hour-building, it's a major problem.

[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: Token Bird ]

[BillyFish2]

Jaffo,

The GHFC don't seem to bother checking for e-mails however one of the instructors Pieter Wesselman does check his mail. His address is:

[email protected]

I'm sure he can sort you out. Try and book those hours a few weeks ahead. Best times at CPT 09.00 to 13.00. Before 9 you can get stuck taxiing in a queue of v.big jets (Jumbos and A340s mostly) which is a bit of a kick the first time but a bloody pain in the bum if it costs 15 to 20 minutes on the Hobbs. After 13.00 the south-wester starts blowin' up a storm in the summer. Good solid 25-40 knots most days - makes the take-off run seem rather short!

[foghorn]

In 1999 I was on holiday in Cape Town and got twitchy, so went for a sightseeing flight around the Cape in a Warrior with one of the Good Hope Flying Club's instructors.

Last year I went back to some hour building in their PA28s and multi-engine flying on their Aztec (which has gone now unfortunately). The GHFC is an excellent friendly outfit with probably the best maintained fleet in the Cape.

The flying there is the most fun I've ever done - the breathtaking scenery around the Cape (watch for the turbulence from thermals and off the mountians!). There are just so many scenic flights to be done - up over table mountain if the tablecloth isn't in - into the Worcester valley - over the Langebaan lagoons - bombing along the surfline of miles of straight sandy beaches with the altimeter reading zero and the seabirds rising below - with thanks to SA's liberal 500' rule and the GHFC instructors who taught me the simple tricks of low-level flying.

There is also the airfield at Fisanderkraal just outside the Cape Town CTR which is great for practising circuits (free landing fees!) There's also the fun of mixing it in the Cape Town circuit with heavy metal and if you're very lucky the Strikemaster, Hunter or Lightning from Thunder City!

Ah bliss - good memories.
foggy.

---

BillyFish2 - isn't it amazing how the Sou'wester blows straight down runway 19 with hardly any variation, causing few problems on take off or landing, most unlike strong winds up here which swirl about so much as to make it unflyable in a light single at >25 knots even when straight down the runway? Launching off in 40 knots in a single is not unusual down there and it causes few problems.

[ 02 November 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[BillyFish2]

Foghorn,

Yeah that old south wester was bloody amazing. Practically took the the thing off
for you! One of the instructors Ed Gordon told me the two mountain ranges (Table
mountain + 12 apostles on one side and the Hottentot range on the other side)
channeled the south wester practically spot on 190 every time. You just couldn't
get a cross-wind on 19.

Good to hear Fisanderkraal is still open. The surface was disintegrating when I
was there in '98. That's where I finally figured out landings.

[Jaffo]

Billy Fish 2

Thanks for the info and the e-mail address. That kind of confirms what I thought.

Does anyone know if I do a twin rating in SA at a non JAA approved school, what the requirements are to validate it once back in the UK?

Jaffo