View Full Version : new but eager
4th Mar 2003, 03:09
can any tell me i want to take my ppl with the view to flying for a living . is cpl/ir the same as the frozen atpl do i have these certifications in the right order
1-ppl at least 45hrs
2cpl at least 200hrs
3 atpl theory
4atpl after 1500 hrs
would that then allow you to fly as f/o in an airline? if you can get a job that is.
also the biggest factor am i to old at 36 to begin training i would be funding the course , i ask becouse from what ive read so far thier seems to be a bit of age discrimination going on at airlines
for older new pilots ( i dont think im old at 36 although i feel it sometimes ) any help much appreciated
4th Mar 2003, 08:08
Almost right, but not quite.
1) Get a Class 1 medical - if you can't get your medical, no point carrying on!
2) PPL - minimum 45 hours
3) ATPL theory - required before starting 5) and 6)
4) Hour-building to at least 150 hours, required before starting 5)
5) CPL - minimum 200 hours
This will allow you to fly as f/o in an airline, although whether you'd actually be offered a job with so little experience is a completely different matter
7) ATPL - 1500 hours, including 500 hours on a multi-pilot aircraft (as f/o) - this allows you to act as captain in an airline.
3) and 4) can be done in the opposite order, and often are. 5) and 6) can be done in the opposite order, although they are usually done in the order I've suggested.
Good luck! And remember, any questions specifically relating to 2) or 4) belong in Private Flying, relating to 1) belong in Medical, and anything else belongs here in Wannabes.
4th Mar 2003, 15:51
thanks but what about my age im currently 36 which aint old !
if i pass all of this in good time say 18 months , stupid question maybe but what are the employment prospects at this age i ask becouse thier seems to be a little bit of discrimination in the airline industry towards older new pilots well in the uk anyhow usual backward attitude in this country .
4th Mar 2003, 16:30
I'm 36 and I'm going for it. If you can get the training done in 18mths-2yrs you could still make Captain by 45.
All the info you need is probably on this site somewhere (if often contradicted). Have a good look through Wannabes.
Get a Class One Medical, do a JAA-PPL in the USA and reach for the skies! :cool:
PS You could do the ATPL groundschool after getting your CPL/IR if you want. That way you could maybe work as an FI or glider tugging etc - if you can find a job. (Crap money though).
PS You could do the ATPL groundschool after getting your CPL/IR if you want.
You have to complete the ATPL groundschool before you can commence training for the CPL.
The only way around it would be to do the CPL theory first in order to get your CPL. Unless you intend to pursue a flying career that does not require an ATPL-such as a flight instruction-
you may as well do the ATPLs from the outset, as the material for both is very similar.
4th Mar 2003, 17:15
As Aliturnbull said a lot of the airlines discriminate on the age factor. You will not find it anywhere in the black and white, but that is reality. Your age must be equivalent to your experience.
So if you are 40 when you come knockng on the door they expect a lot of experience if you wanna get on board.Keep in mind that there is an age limit in effect (in the US anyway-dont now UK) for flying for the airline.Tha fact is that most of world airlines hire people in their mid-late 20s or early 30s.But there are exceptions.
But who said that you have to work for an airline. There are other flying jobs out there. Well not right now, but in 2 years who knows.And you can propably make captain by 45 with some other flying companys like charter fractionals or maybe make a career out of flight instructing and become a pilot examiner.Etc.
4th Mar 2003, 17:18
No. 2 - Look's like I was talking No. 2s about that part then.
See how easy it is to be misinformed Ali? Or maybe it's just me :\
4th Mar 2003, 19:43
I don't believe that there is as much age discrimination as you say, at least not in the UK. A pilot cannot command a commercial aircraft over 5700kg after the age of 60 in this country (mainly due to the French banning overflights by aircraft commanded by those older than 60), but below that age there are few restrictions.
Each airline's recruiting policy is different. The 'experience commensurate with age' bit is quite common in Asia, but not so here. As long as you have the minimum requirements, you are welcome to apply. Those minimums vary with the sate of the market; at the moment they are quite high, historically speaking. Two years ago, 200-hour pilots were frequently getting jet jobs - irrelevant of their age. Our own Capt Pprune was 37 when he began his training, and he's now a B737 captain.
Things are pretty tough right now, but jobs will be back!
4th Mar 2003, 20:39
thanks very much for the encoragement guys i was beggining to think i was old and dry at 36 geeez what a thought,
seems thier is hope in the jobs market if not at present but one thing about being that little bit older you know things go in cycles so the jobs will be back.
5th Mar 2003, 22:46
that is my experience.I wish we could get the statistics from the major airlines and check how many low time people in the their 40s get hired.But propably not.As far as I can see those are the pilots from the military with a lot of time or corporate pilots with a lot of time.UK propably different.Don`t know. Hope that guys get the job.Sorry but I didnt realize that this was a Q about UK.Hope I didnt make people feel bad.As Scroggs said, different airlines different standards for employment.Where I work most of the F/O that come aboard are in their late 20s early 30s.And I also asked some colegues and same answer.
6th Mar 2003, 09:15
I am 36, slightly ahead of you though, I have the ATPL writtens and a CPL issued. I dont believe that your too old, but as you can tell from the respondants on the site that a majority are in there 20's to early 30's.
I have taken the plunge and never regretted it, a lot of things i would have done different, easy in hindsight as always.
My aim is to fly the right hand seat, and striving to reach a jet operator, however i am realistic to understand that i may be flying air taxi, instructing and the like first, I may be lucky and really hope i am in geting that first right hand seat job fairly quickly.
Be positive and if any of my previous last years experience can help you, drop me a private message
Keep flying, smile when you land , cos the ATC will be laughing at you
HAve fun :D :cool:
6th Mar 2003, 22:43
Yes, I'm aware that things are different outside the UK. As you're probably aware, most (but by no means all) our readers are from the UK. ali, who started this thread, is from Scotland and I assume that the UK market is where he'll be looking.
As you suggest, in the US (among other places) the employment market is not so benevolent as here!
Have you thought about doing an assessment ?
Consider the RAF based one offered by GAPAN at RAF Cranwell.
If you get a high score it gives you a lot of encouragment, if you get a low / average score it dosn't say that you won't make a pilot, it may be just a bit harder. (cost £150, one day)
Also, are you going to the Flight Training Exhibition at the Renaisance Hotel, Heathrow, 12/04/2003. Almost all of the FTO's will be there - you can grill them all in one day.
Finally, remember that some Airlines are staggering their intake age to avoid multiple retirements at the same time.