Ryanair-Buzz Routes?

[BEagle]

Very sad news indeed. Good luck to all at buzz who made travelling with them so enjoyable.

Dear O'Leary. I will not, under any circumstances, be flying to where-the-hell-is-Hahn to be dumped miles from anywhere. Fortunately there are real airlines which will fly me to where I need to get to - FRANKFURT AM MAIN - not to some ex-USAF base out in the sticks. I dare say many of the hundreds of ex-buzz passengers from the Friday night UK2294s will be doing the same thing.

[A2QFI]

I know where Hahn is and that is why I fly there! I am not a high flying banker wanting to be in Frankfurt city! I want a cheap flight and then pick up a hire car and have a long weekend in the Mosel. Hahn suits me fine and I know where it is relative to Frankfurt BEFORE I book, thus no grumping about location when I get there!

[chuchoteur]

Huh,

Being based at Bournemouth Airport, may I just point out that Bournemouth Int'l Airport got screwed over big time by this.

Tabling on a route expansion, they have made a heck of a lot of efforts to help Buzz/Ryanair, and they were only told at the same time as passengers that those routes would be cut.

Having lined up financing for a new terminal etc... they are now left with nothing.

If an airline does not have the courtesy to inform airport authorities as to their plans, really they shouldn't expect airport authorities to bend over backwards for them, nor waste their time on helping them increase services.

I've flown Ryanair once, and wouldn't do it again, especially when their check in agents request me to put my laptop in the hold (hellooooooo!). Oh, and they will NOT accept any liability. At least with BA they work with you on a solution...

I feel sorry for the people who will lose their jobs over this merger.

[You want it when?]

There is no point calling the Buzz call centre as they don't know anything about April departures at the moment. An announcement is expected from RyanAir on Friday. Until then the tickets I've bought flying from Stansted in April are an unknown quantity.

I bought these tickets on the 13th of this month - why was I not informed at the time of purchase that the flight schedule was no longer guaranteed?

The young lady at the call centre had been informed she was redundant at the end of the March - so she is really focused on the customers. Poorly organised, RyanAir may be a great firm to work for but they are useless at customer service IMHO. :yuk:

[Buster the Bear]

What will become of BasiqAir, KLM's other low cost airline. The Amsterdam slots they hold are far too valuable for KLM to lose?

If Stansted-Amsterdam gets the chop, there will be no service between the two airports.

In the cold light of day, a British AOC and loads of valuable Stansted slots, for just over £3million is good business sense from Ryanair. The staff at Buzz and their passengers have been shafted by KLM.

[brabazon]

Buster

As others have pointed out, it isn't KLM which has done the shafting, it is Ryanair who spotted a business opportunity and are making the most out of it. The way they are doing it though is certainly not one which takes account of customer service issues and I wonder if there is not a case to be made out of this. At what point did Ryanair decide to chop all services on Buzz routes in April and were they still allowing bookings at that time? Were they selling something which they knew would not exist at the time of the booked flight? I tried looking at April flights on a number of Buzz routes yesterday and the Buzz web-site said that the date selected did not have flights as they either did not fly on those dates or were full - it did not specifically say that all flights had been cancelled. Even today there is no announcement on the Buzz website. This is Ryanair's fault and they need to handle this far better.

As for KLM as said it's not their fault this is happening, however, you do wonder whether it would have been better all round to deal with this in a better way, ie did they really get the best price from the best purchaser for Buzz?

[Dewdrop]

Brabazon, What are you going on about ? You booked your ticket with Buzz, it is Buzz that are pulling the flights in April, as far as I know Ryanair hasn't made an annoucement yet, so please don't slag them off without due cause.

[AJ]

Brabazon,

I agree that the whole thing is a bit of a disaster - both the handling and for the poor folks at BOH...Ryanair could also spruce up their customer service, that's certainly true.

However, I wonder whether some confusion would have been inevitable in any case.

Honestly though, who brought buzz to their knees in debt? It sure wasn't Ryanair. Yes, perhaps they indeed are partly to blame for the present confusion, but what would you rather have happened?

The airline was in intensive care, it would have been dead without any radical change.

This was a (perhaps well-intentioned) boo-boo on KLM's side....I guess the Dutch folk caught the 'me-too' syndrome without having a good think about how difficult it actually is to operate a low-cost operation successfully (i.e. profitably..)

Not interested in laying blame on everyone, but there are at least some facts - and one is that buzz were losing a lot of money; couldn't have gone on like that forever, especially with KLM reeling from a hopeless int'l market.

I completely accept that Ryanair are certainly not everyone's cup of tea - from a pilot to a pax perspective; but I don't have any clear idea as to a better alternative - Debonair certainly wasn't one.

[FlapsOne]

Ryanair could also spruce up their customer service

In order to do that you have to have a customer service to start with!!!!:ok:

[AJ]

Well, I'll concede you have a point there - I would sympathise with anyone tasked with having to get through to Ryanair Direct :)

Whilst I do generally admire the airline, there is certainly room for a change in attitude (in some areas, not all). MOL seems to equate good customer service w/ low fares, or sod off, which is a bit of a lazy attitude to be honest. May that change.

[railwaysengineer]

ghost-riders link tells us, that Berlin-flights will continue.
German media since yesterday evening tell that buzz is cancelling all Berlin-flights (SXF) as well.
Tickets will be refound.

[Crash_and_Burn]

I'm surprised that Ryanair have dropped al flights out of STN in April. Under the rules, they will be in danger of losing their STN slots if they do not fly them.

Unless of course they have done some sort of underhand deal that exempts them from the rules?? The BAA is probably scared of them pulling out of STN now that they own 50percent of the slots, so they'll turn a blind eye to the regulations.

Don't you just love it when everyone is on a level playing field! If I was an Easy employee, I’d be making enquires to ensure that they were playing by the rules.:mad: :eek: :*

C&B

[ramsrc]

BEagle

I agree with you completely. The very best of luck to everyone at Buzz, it may not have been perfect but it was by far and away the best way of travelling FRA-LON-FRA.

I have also been a regular flier on the route for many years laterly with Buzz but before that with AirUK. It is a huge shame that we have reached the end of an era.

Neither I, nor anyone in my family will be using Ryanair. I did it a few times, but for the money saved it is just too much hassle. It is horrendous to get to, parking is abysmal and then there is the flight... I will continue to use FRA where I can get on a train in my home village and be at the airport inside 15 minutes.

Not surprisingly, BA seem to be attempting to cash in on the demise of Buzz' Frankfurt route. Local radio are airing an advert which is something to the effect of "Why are we landing in this meadow and not in Frankfurt?" It made me chuckle to see Ryanair given a thinly valed taste of their own medicine. :p

[Cyrano]

Crash_and_burn:

My understanding that the slots are held based on the so-called 80-20 rule, ie if you fly at least 80% of the slots in a season you get to keep them. April represents 1/7 of the summer season so if Ryanair uses the slots consistently from May through to October that'll still total more than 80% of the full season and hence they'll be able to hang on to them as historics next summer. Remember also that from STN's point of view, Ryanair don't have to use them to fly to the destinations Buzz originally wanted them for (obviously they need to weave them in with their existing rotation plans, but I daresay they'll manage it). So no need to invoke conspiracy theories yet.

19F:
Thanks for posting the link to the press release, which I read with interest - the Ryanairspeak is evident.

They are being economical with the truth, though (in a Ryanair press release? Imagine that! :E ) : they claim "12 Buzz routes dropped, 12 routes retained at increased frequency".

In fact those 12 "retained" routes include Frankfurt ("retained" at Hahn, i.e. the existing FR service), Dusseldorf ("retained" at Niederrhein, ditto) and Toulouse ("retained" at Carcassonne, ditto). So rather than being a "score draw", I think the more truthful score is Dropped: 15, Retained: 9. :ooh:

[eng123]

I am continually amazed at some of the comments I read on here about Ryanair and their routes,service etc...
For those that think it is worth paying the extra £200-£300 [and more] to fly into the 'primary' airports like Frankfurt Main,Paris CDG,Amsterdam etc,then please go ahead.There is nothing wrong with that view,so long as you think that paying that amount for a couple of cups of coffee,a 'free' newspaper and a packet of biscuits is value for money.There is an awful lot of people like myself that has woken up to the fact that we have been ripped-off for years.
If it is so important that you need to be in the city centre within 30 mins or so then it will clearly be worth the extra expense.However,there are plenty that doesn't mind the hour's trip [on average] in a cheap bus to reach your final destination at a fraction of the cost you would have paid several years ago.It is also worth pointing out that the time to collect bags and exit the terminal of the secondary airport's RYR uses is significantly less than the major airports.
It's all about choice,it suit's some but not other's.Just because it doesn't suit one person is no reason to knock it because,as RYR's load factor's show,it clearly suit's plenty of other's!
On to the service.Just what do you want on a 2hr flight?The cabin crew attend to each individual on the a/c,just the same as BA cabin crew.You may have to pay for your coffee and biscuits but apart from that,it's essentially the same.
Sure,they won't put you up for the night if your flight is delayed or canx,but then again,WHY SHOULD THEY?Everybody agrees to their T&C before booking,and the fare for the flight is normally peanuts [if you book early enough] Again,if you want that extra 'insurance policy',then pay traditional airlines price.Expensive policy IMHO at £2-300!If your flight IS canx,then you will get a refund or get on the next one.
As MOL has said in the past,he want's to get away from the notion that air travel is some inter-continental,super high earner activity,IT IS NOT! WHAT IT IS IS A BUS SERVICE!
And I sure enjoy maintaining our brand new 'busses'![and I don't mean Airbusses,by the way,unlike some!] Oh,by the way,to EXACTLY the same standard as the 'traditional' carrier's,I must say!

[ramsrc]

eng123

You have made some excellent points in your post. However, it rarely costs £200-300 more to fly from "Premium Airports".

Let us say for arguments sake you wish to fly to London for a not so (point taken...) long weekend in March. Flying out on the 7th and returning on the 9th. FR would cost you €233 from Hahn, but BA would cost you €195 for flights around the same time, and that is before you take into account the cost of travelling to the back end of beyond.

Admittedly this is rather short notice, but if you postpone your long weekend until the end of March the price goes up to €313 :eek:

[AJ]

Absolutely.

It is well worth checking all the airline sites (can be done simoultaneously through easyvalue.com - though for European flights only).

Number of times the difference in price may not be large, and convenience of schedules plus distance from airport may sway the decision in favour of flying with an 'expensive' carrier.

In times when prices seem to fluctuate wildly, and without any seeming consistency, it pays to check everyone's prices - BMI recently got my business to Madrid over easyjet (poor times even though cheaper) and BA (slightly pricier, and don't accept Switch, although a fantastic schedule).

Caveat Emptor? Absolutely.

[XSBaggage]

ramsrc,

I wouldn't exactly class a trip from the 7th to the 9th of March to be a "long weekend"!

The reason people are managing to get low fares on the traditional carriers these days is because the low costs have them on the run. It can only be good for the travelling public. I personally like FR, as they have allowed me to travel where previously I could not have afforded it, but I do understand people who are used to traditional airlines knocking them.

[ramsrc]

Config, XSBaggage and others

My intention was not to make the thread "boringly repeatative [sic]" and apologies if I have done so.

Of course many people will continue to use HHN-STN and good luck to them. If it suits you and you are happy with it, then go for it. However, it is not for me as I said in my original post.

Whatever your personal opinions are concerning Ryanair, at the end of the day we have lost a significant player in the Frankfurt to London market and that is bad for the passengers and even worse for the staff of Buzz.

Thank you and good luck to all the staff at Buzz. The route will not be the same without you.

[Dave T-S]

Speaking as a user, not an airline employee, I have used Air UK and Air UK Leisure/Leisure International (remember them;) ) since sometime in the 80's and and Buzz since before they had even relogoed, and there was always a nice friendly atmosphere about them, but the feeling was always that their owners never really took them seriously.

As a personal point I only use Ryanair when there is no alternative, for several reasons. I admire MOL for the way he runs his airline from a business point of view, but I find his aggressive attitude towards problems tiresome. They kindly lost our skis outbound for 12 days a couple of years ago, and didn't want to know - even refused to pay out under the baggage weight compensation rules - Warsaw convention or whichever one. The attitude was "it isn't our problem, go claim from your insurance".

It's a shame to see Buzz go, and I feel sorry for the staff. It's pretty obvious that Ryanair bought them to shut down an opponent/asset strip it (the cash mountain), and I have an inkling that MOL is relishing a fight with the staff/unions on 1st April so he can then justify closing it down together, which would be a shame, but a realistic possibility.

On a related note, now KLM apparantly have no feed in to Schipol to serve their international flights, how are they going to deal with that? Will they start a STN/Schipol shuttle?

[Flap 5]

As has been stated this thread is becoming a little repetitive. So to add something fresh: what is the government doing about the situation? If Ryanair can come along and close down routes when people have already bought tickets and all of the other problems that are coming out of this takeover how can the regulators of such takeovers allow them to do this with impunity?

You can be sure that if Ryanair can legally do what they have done they will do it. It is up to the government regulators of such takeovers to ensure that there is fair play.

[MarkD]

Flap 5

any airline can close a route - it's pretty important if you don't want to go bankrupt when other routes will make money.

if the criteria is that "people have bought tickets", the problem is most airlines allow people to buy tickets up to a year ahead. So does an airline have to wait a year before closing a route that has become uneconomic for whatever reason?

[BEagle]

If where-the-hell-is-Hahn is such a suitable alternative to real Frankfurt, would someone please let me know whether there's a direct train from where-the-hell-is-Hahn to Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof, how often does it run and how much does it cost?

How easy it was to buzz over on a Friday evening, catch a train to Niedersheim and then the tram to Gartenstrasse. It took about 30 minutes max from airport to destination and was very cheap indeed.....

Whereas from where-the-hell-is-Hahn??

[AJ]

Beagle, please stop moaning - it is your kind of posts which pple are referring to as "repetitive and boring", in case you hadn't noticed....

As has already been said & accepted, HHN suits some, FRA suits others. If HHN doesn't suit you, fly with someone else. The fact that FR have made such a success of HHN (and other alternate airfields all over Europe) suggests that not everyone would agree with your point of view (to put it mildly....)

I believe a bus service connects those who wish to continue from HHN to downtown Frankfurt. Not all pple using HHN wish to travel to, or are travelling from, Frankfurt city.

I am sure those wishing to fly into FRA, rather than HHN, will be able to avail of some reasonable fares with other carriers (I believe both BA and Lufthansa have lowered fares & restrictions).

Meanwhile, live and let live - and accept the fact that some pple prefer to fly with Ryanair, and use HHN...

[BEagle]

AJ - are you sure your name isn't O'Leary? It's the "If you don't like it - tough luck" attitude of O'Leary and yourself which I as a customer find insufferable.

The RyanAir website links to others which show an infrequent 2 hr bus service to the Ffm HBhof and no rail station nearer than 28 km to where-the-hell-is-Hahn.

So - I will indeed be using a better, more pleasantly-operated proper airline to FRA in future. As I'm sure will many other loyal ex-buzz customers.......

[AJ]

For the record, no, I have nothing to do with Mr. O'leary or Ryanair.

Just using some reason & logic in my responses.

[Flap 5]

MarkD,

You miss the point. Of course companies can shut down routes if they are unprofitable. It is the governments responsibility to regulate these companies so that they provide a SERVICE to their customers. I capitalise the word as many companies do not recognise it unless they are forced to.

[Meeb]

An airline which cares about customer service..? What a novel concept. Any airline I have worked for couldn't give a monkeys about the paying punter (& the staff). Now I fly freight and the boxes get more attention than any SLF ever did. Sad state of affairs in our industry. :rolleyes:

[eng123]

BEagle,you make me laugh with your reference to the 'infrequent' bus service to Frankfurt!Do you really expect the local bus company to schedule busses when there are no RYR arrivals,considering RYR is the major player at HHN?!As well you know,the bus service is timed to leave shortly after the RYR flights arrive!Yet another cheap [and unfounded] pop at RYR!
Please enjoy paying your extra ££££'s to fly BA or similar to FRA!

[Sherry Bobbins]

From today's Luton on Sunday (http://www.seriousaboutnews.com/cgi/xtranews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1046563200,73978,) :
Buzz, which was owned by Dutch airline KLM, employs 600 people. Most of the cabin crew will lose their jobs, half the ground staff will have to go and 25 per cent of the pilots will be made redundant. The 200 to keep their jobs will be required to transfer to Ryanair’s base at Luton Airport.
...
Operating out of Luton Airport, Ryanair will increase the Buzz schedule on 12 routes, completely terminate 11 routes and cut fare prices by up to 50 per cent.
Does this mean that all the re-started Buzz routes (assuming there are any) will be from LTN?

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Sherry Bobbins - no truth whatsoever. Luton on Sunday and its "sister" papers regularly claim Ryanair is based at Luton in order that they can run stories which are of local interest.

Typical of the paper really.

:yuk:

[Buster the Bear]

Mr 1 Bravo, the local paper is always highly accurate with its reporting, surely you remember the low flying hot air balloon story it ran last summer. Those photo's were brilliant.

Actually I read the article yesterday and nearly chocked with laughter on my honey and nut cornflakes!


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