Have Malgus Refunded?

[sammartin]

Have any of you had refunds from Malgus? I got one last night.

Thanks very much to all of you who have just ruined our chances of a free ATPL, hope you feel good about yourselves.

[TomPierce]

Maybe you should be grateful for the expressions of disbelief raised against this scheme, rather than assume that YOU would have been the ONE to be selected - out of 470!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Really?! Thats a little sudden, I would not have thought enough time had elapsed between the advert yet for them to decide to can the idea.

I'll try and contact them to find out.

EnglishPilot - I can understand your dissapointment but please don't whine at others for taking their time to give their advice.

WWW

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Right that`s it then....Now how about Hamrah`s idea of we all contribute £20 and the Prune fund would then be able to sort some sponsorships out.

[The Guvnor]

WWW - like you, I find the apparent fact that Malgus are refunding even before carrying out phase one of their test programme has demonstrated that their plan was indeed fatally flawed from the start - and to do so at this juncture is remarkably reminiscent of Flying Start who as I understand it blamed 'illness' for the termination of their plans.

EnglishPilot - I admire your self confidence in that you feel that you are apparently 469 times better than the average pilot. With that level of confidence, might I suggest that you invest the £147 in lottery tickets? With luck, you may well will sufficient to pay for an ATPL course!

Of course, you do appreciate that even if you had been selected as the trainee, your course would have been funded through the sweat and toil of 469 people who might not have been able to afford it?

[Superpilot]

Delta Wun Wun, I believe that would equate to the cost of one full sponsorship ;)

Another 'Flying Start' style bluff? Man, these are interesting times.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Superpilot,
If you read the other thread regarding Malgus,Hamrah stated that if one third of the registered prune members contributed £20/year then prune could run 6 sponsored places a year.

[Superpilot]

Apologies, I didn't read Hamrahs earlier comments but “one third of the registered PPrune members” is a bit misleading. The total registered usernames by Ronchonner alone amasses around 10,000 :D + add to that the one post wonders. Not 6 but certainly a few.

[InFinRetirement]

Errrrrrr! Just a minute. I would be very happy to see one third of PPRuNer's put in £20 but that is just dreamin'. It wouldn't happen.

The fund stands at around £4600 at the minute and that has taken a long time to accumulate, and I am here to tell you that I have worked hard to get even small amounts of money in, let alone 10,000 people putting £20 each. They would run a mile! Even further. Especially in today's circumstances.

It would pay for sponsorships but that's where the similarity ends I am afraid.

However, who knows? I am still working at it and I will get more cash coming in - eventually. I still have 470 TSR2 prints, and even badges are not selling as they did.

But rest assured I will not give up.

[Hamrah]

I raised this point as an example of what was possible. If 10,000 registered PPRuNe Members contributed £20 each, we would have £200,000 for sponsorships.

Now, no one seems to believe that this is possible, but give more credibility to a scheme requiring nearly 500 people to contribute £147 for 1 sponsorship.

Well, I say we are in a better position to do this than any other organisation. If we just raised enough for 1 sponsorship to start with, it would surely trigger contributions for more.

£20

Doesn't seem like much in the grand order of things.

H

[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: Hamrah ]

[Hamrah]

...lets think it one stage further.

A course in Jerez costs £47,000. So why not 1000 PPRuNeRs contribute £47 each. No profit. Straight in and out.

H

[InFinRetirement]

H, I am with you all the way. I think it is a great idea and something that is constantly on my mind, a frustrated mind at times, but I do believe in this and want it to happen. You and I have a fervent belief in putting something back, I am just not sure others do.

It's just that finding 1000 people to put in £47 is difficult. But............as you say...................If you and I put in £47 each that leaves 998 to go - anybody?

Wouldn't it be great if we could get just one person through?

Mail on it's way H.

[Luke SkyToddler]

I would too - if I thought it would do anything other than launch another FATPL onto the dole queue, in the current hiring situation.

Why doesn't someone run a scheme to give 737 ratings to the several hundred unemployed FATPL holders that already exist, or are going to come into existence in the next few months?

[eagerbeaver]

It's a nice idea, in a perfect world. I am in the majority and would be extremely hesistant about dishing out some money all be it not a lot, to a complete stranger.
I am interested to know though how you would select the individual etc. The weight of resposibilty on the persons shoulders would be an awful burden, no?
And what about people in the system struggling already? Couldn't cash be swerved towards them? i know plenty of fine aspiring commercial pilots on the brink of finnacial destruction because they pursued proffesional aviation as a career, young and old. Besides you will defintely need more than £47'000 per student.

Although being the inaugral PPRUNE sponsered cadet would be the nuts on your CV!

[Hamrah]

Luke Sky Toddler

Watch this spoace.

H

[HalesAndPace]

Hamrah, IFR, et al, please go for the donations route! GBP20 (US $30)is an insignificant amount to most individuals (even flight engineers - only joking!!!), but, the combined fund could make a very significant change to a few guys' lives. Yes, selection of worthy candidates, etc, would not be easy, but solutions can be found to most problems. Would UK Charity rules apply, etc?? :) :) :)
(Edited for spelling)

[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: HalesAndPace ]

[InFinRetirement]

H&P, no decisions have been made yet. It will take time, but there must be much more cash in the fund for it to be effective. There are a few ideas in the pot at the moment, but that is the main requirement.

Charity status is quite complex, but with more cash and the means to show that it is regular 'income' I have someone who will help us achieve it.

I am still very dubious that we would get 1000 willing contributors, I have only had three in the past year!

However, when I have finalised a round of ideas with PPRuNe colleagues I will be better placed to say more.

Like I said, I haven't worked this hard to allow it to fall or founder, and it will ultimately be used for the assistance of wannabes, with no risks.

[Sensible]

IFR, you can rely upon my donation when your plan becomes active, however, I still do believe that the way forward is to obtain a replacement for the old NVQ. The NVQ was knocked on the head because it was abused and it was allowed to be abused by the ridiculous rules which enabled fun pilots to obtain money fromthe taxpayer in order to pay for their hobby. There are plenty of people on this forum who are competent to act as an interview panel in order to sort out genuine potential professional pilots from fun pilots. What is needed is a restoration of the NVQ but in hthe hands of competent people to filter out the abusers of the subsidies! Now I just know that you need a project to save you from boredom :D :D

[TheNavigator]

Hamrah and IFR,

You have my total support for the idea!

997 to go! :)

TheNavigator

[Luke SkyToddler]

Watching with baited breath H :)

Hey why don't we really go for broke and set up the PPRuNe Academy! Put a few people a year through, at cost rates, instead of one at an extortionate mark up ... pick up a Warrior, a Seneca on the cheap, a whole pile of donations from the Wannabe fraternity, a bit of goodwill from the senior PPRuNers such as is already being shown by your good selves, we could be onto a real winner. I hereby nominate myself CFI forthwith :D

[Sagey]

Hi there,

I love the idea etc, and would donate money help with the setting of it up, do anything if you want IFR, as I am fully behind your dream.

However, Full ATPL's are lovely for those who get them, but part-sponsorships IMO would be the way to go, as more people can be helped by Pprune. Also a financial contribution is being made by the sponsoree and then once qualified we have the "Helpers Network" you are setting up to try and help these part people find jobs.

Thoughts,

Sagey

[November Whiskey]

Hello all,

Just wanted to add my tuppence worth to this topic...

It's a subject that I have thought about before and would be more than happy to support if it get's off the ground (excuse the pun!).

I myself was a Flying Start applicant. Luckily I cancelled the cheque and that was that. Abit suspect though if you ask me.

Anyway, IMHO and I may be out of line here (I would not want to offend any of my fellow Pruners,) but I really believe that the way forward is to pay an annual subscription to use PPRUNE (say £20-£30). This could go into the pot towards some form of ATPL sponsorship, modular or part sponsorship could be more sensible as the cash would go further.

I think PPRUNE is invaluable in many respects. Certainly it has helped me with lots of useful info, entertainment and a great feeling that I am not alone in the 'struggle' of attaining my dream! Therefore, giving a little in return is not too much to ask.

I am quite fortunate that myself and Mrs Whiskey pull in enough dough to be in with a shout of me being able to self sponsor. I consider myself very lucky. There are some however, who may be more talented or deserving than I, who will never even get the chance due to lack of funds, which is a crying shame!!! (not Crying Game!)

I don't think any of us want to burden the moderators with more work, but wouldn't it be great if we could do something really positive and launch some careers. Possibly abit controversial, but we could consider 'clawing-back' some of the cash from sponsored candidates when they're fully employed, as a thankyou, which would enable the scheme to keep running.

Anyway, I've prattled on for too long now so I'll get my coat and say ta ta!

I don't have all the answers! But I have a ****load of ideas and enthusiasm!

Regards to all!


N.W. :D

[EGDR]

There is a lot of rubbish being talked about pprune starting sponsorships. Pprune should not get involved in this, what's more it shouls remain free otherwise I believe you would see a steady decline in members.

As somebody financing my own flying training I would not be happy about putting money into a pot to finance other wannabes. Let's face it, we're not talking about a welfare fund for those on the breadline. You make a choice to pursue a flying career and should not rely on handouts from others.

[Sagey]

EGDR I don't think there will be any mad handouts.

IFR has worked tirelessy to set up his wannabe project!, and I can guarantee to everyone out there that when he speaks about it, it is with emotion and passion. That is how much it means to him, and the chance for him to help wannabes.

First thing the fund needs is the money. The Seminars that are run take some money out of the fund I believe, how can educational talks be bad for wannabes. I think the sponsorship argument was only to illustrate some of the short comings of other schemes and how Pprune could effectively run a system with no financial gain to any parties.

Sagey

[ADC]

EGDR,

A typical, selfish, I'm alright Jack response.

I like the original concept of this PPRuNe Fund of "Giving something back!". So for those of us to want to help people like you (or should I say people more deserving than you) to get a break then that's commendable.

I would prefer the idea of a loan, repayable when the cadet gets his first job. That way the money gets recycled to help other people trying to get their first break.

As for EGDR, hope you make it to a PPRuNe Bash so we can tell you to your face what we think of your selfish attitude.

ADC

[EGDR]

Once a matelot always a matelot !

ADC - I believe pprune should support wannabes with advice, seminars etc but do not feel sponsorships are the way ahead. Besides I don't think it's feasible, esp as pprune has a worldwide membership.

As far as your other comments I suggest you keep them to yourself if you have nothing better than a diarrhoea of words and a constipation of ideas.

Your addition to this thread is like a lighthouse in a desert - brilliant but useless.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I think you'll find a concept forming in my mind more along the lines of interest free grants repayable upon finding that airline job aimed at assisting those who have already committed themselves in a significant manner to joining the ranks of professional aviation.

I am more than well aware of the issues involved with providing essentially free full ATPL courses and it is not a course I would wish to follow.

I was a self sponsored Wannabe not more than 2 years ago guys and I have a good memory!

Cheers,

WWW

[Shanks]

WWW,

I hope that "those who have already committed themselves in a significant manner" isn't purely a financial commitment. If this was the case, the grants would be given to people who have already undertaken the modular route.

I'm currently saving for an ab initio course working in a job that I hate. When I eventually start I'll have huge debts and taken the major decision to change career, but how can someone in this situation prove a significant commitment?

I'm not putting this case forward for myself, I imagine I'll have started my course before this scheme takes off. Just don't forget ab initio hopefuls who struggle and take at least as large a risk as those who undertake the modular route.

I haven't seen any information about making a donation to Wannabees, maybe it could be placed at the top of the forum pages? There's a crisp 20 waiting in my pocket.....

[Sagey]

Speaking of Malgus have they released a statement yet stating that they will not be running their scheme.

As a company they seemed quick to promote the scheme on Pprune and the website but haven't been so eager to continue their public relations mission.

Is this the end of Malgus? or is this in their eyes just a hiccup.

I think we are all unsure(?) or is that just me ;)


Sagey

[InFinRetirement]

Shanks. There is comment on this on page one of this thread.

Sagey. Thanks for your earlier comments - much appreciated.

[pjdj777]

hmmmm, how do you define a "commitment"?

Where do you draw the line, I think WWW has a point here, NVQ went boobies up because people took the micky out of the scheme.

My view with regards to NVQ was that to get the tax back you should:

Hold a class one medical
Commit yourself to the scheme in writing
Draw up a plan for training

That's what I did at the outset in 1998, the NVQ managing agents didn't want to know (I was already halfway through another NVQ course and had to do all this stuff for them)

Now if anything could happen through the Pprune support fund, and to an extent I concur with IFR, there would be a number of people at differing stages of training - I think the above criteria should be the bare minimum (it should be anyway if you are serious about training), but other cases will have to be taken on merit, not easy.

[JB007]

I think it's important that IFR/Hamrah/WWW and others at PPRuNe HQ (wherever that is!) realise what PPRuNe is to most of it's members and don't assume that all 40,000 of it's members want to seriously get involved like yourselves.

Take the Christmas bash - out of say, 40,000 members for easy maths, only 0.4% attending.

I'm sure to most it's nothing more than a 5 minute read when time allows etc etc..and are certainly not going to give up money, no-matter what the amount is. It's nothing to do with "putting something back" or anyone not wanting to, it's just life. If my other half asked what the £47 debit on the bank statement was and I mentioned "A PPRuNe ATPL Fund" for someone she'd think i've gone mad!

I don't mean this to sound sarcastic but have you thought about starting a little smaller first, say a full or lessons towards a PPL - probably a bit more realistic.

Best of luck with it all anyway guys, it's very impressive that people with very busy working lives like Hamrah and especially WWW's roster can find the time to help someone.

[InFinRetirement]

JB, if you go back to June of last year when Danny asked me to set up a fund we obviously discussed it's purpose - if you can re-call. I made it clear then that the fund would be used to give wannabes a leg up. That could include the cost of a modular, books, IR - any number of things towards a licence - where they are a bit short of cash to carry on maybe. Also, that the money would only go to those who showed that they were entirely dedicated. It would be loaned on an interest free basis and returned when they had a job so that we could re-use it again.

The fund has been used once. To subsidise the seminars in June, but this time the wannabes have paid for the whole cost of the lecture rooms. They, in fact, made it clear that's what they wanted to do - good on them.

Nothing has changed otherwise. Except that there have been feelings and feelers put forth in regard to sponsorship on the lines of the Malgus scheme which I now believe has no-where to run. What has been expounded is that perhaps there might be say a 1000 PPRuNers put in something like £20 each. I have serious doubts about that since I have only THREE regular monthly payments made to the PPRune Fund, and about 50 donations. All in the past 18 months. Via the PPRuNe badge donation of £1 per badge from Danny to the fund this has realised around £160. I have had several small donations and one large one of £500. The June Gatbash added over £1000 to the fund, I have sold about £600 of TSR2 prints but have heaps more to sell but ALL monies, from wherever they come are gratefully received. I make a point of personally saying so.

However, I am keen to see something happening and I am working with PPRuNe colleagues to get their thoughts and ideas. What I am not going to do, is waste the effort I have put in. Indeed, I fully intend to maximise what money we have got, and will receive. It's just not enough at the moment that's the basic problem.

As I often say to the wannabes. Don't give up! That applies to me too.

[Vref +50]

Its good to see Malgus fail - if only to make people realise that WWW, Guvnor and the like were only offering sound advice those weeks ago when people were calling them 'Doom Mongers'.

There ARE no cheap shortcuts. Pays your moneys and takes your chances just like the rest of us did.

Cheapskates.

VREF