Freefall / Parachute Sites

[engineoff]

As a professional pilot in the UK who has taken up skydiving in the last 18 months, I have been amazed by the amount of light (GA ) traffic entering the notified parachuting 'airspace' whilst jumping is progressing, without making any prior contact on the standard UK dropzone frequency. This not surprisingly leads to a frantic attempts with binoculars to spot the registration of the offending aircraft in the hope that such things can be prevented in the future..

The majority of the civilian sites do not have formal ATZ's yet all are marked as parachuting sites. It appears that many people do not realise the potential hazards of flying within these areas (or have made a navigation error etc...) See AAIB link for the report of an incident that occurred last year.

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/feb03/fkj.htm

Any comments or suggestions. Perhaps giving each dropzone a controlling authority through whom transit requests must be made?? This might encourage those few pilots to take these areas 'more seriously'....

[Prof Denzil Dexter]

Engineoff,

Totally agree. As a jump pilot, i have lost count of the times where I have been running in to drop, and seeing a light GA type go scooting past at the same level, probably head down looking at the GPS!

Whilst a Para drop zone is NOT restricted airspace, pilots would do well to avoid, just the same as when flying through a glider site.

A 100kg projectile at terminal velocity WILL do a lot of damage to an aircraft, let alone the parachutist. (See the AAIB report on the Glider/jumper collision last year!)

[Circuit Basher]

Maybe this seems like a stupid question (and one for which there is no doubt a regulation that I learnt around 7 yrs ago during training, but can't remember now), but I'll ask the 'leaping lemming' ;) community on here what sort of 'recommended spacing' you'd suggest for a jump zone. A couple of times when I've been transitting from Perth to Oban, Scottish Info have advised me that Strathallan is active. At a cruise level of around FL45, I've generally felt that 3-4 nm is a reasonable safety margin - at that sort of spacing, should I be QSYing to talk to the jumpmeister (or whatever he's called)??!

[FWA NATCA]

Engineoff,

At each of our parachute sites (we have 3) the pilots contact ATC and request traffic advisories. The pilots give us a one minute warning prior to prying the jumpers out of the plane.

We issue known traffic and advise acft going near the jump zones that Parachute operations are being conducted, most steer clear of the area and some just drive on through. The pilot will normally hold the jumpers until we advise them that the traffic is clear or until they have the traffic in sight.

Mike
NATCA FWA

[engineoff]

Circuit Basher,

3-4 miles is a very sensible distance bearing in mind the charts generally only give an area with a 1.5nm radius from the centre of the field and depending on the strength of the wind 'the lemmings' as you so nicely put it can often be thrown out quite close to that limit... I usually give them a quick call anyway if I'm close just to stop the Dropzone controller getting scared if he spots me...

FWA NATCA,

That would be a nice system over here.. The pilots do contact the local ATC who have radar facilities whilst airborne, however we still get problems with gliders / smaller f/w etc who aren't transponding and not giving a good primary contact. Some of the airfields unfortunately are situated out of radar range, or near military radar which is normally not operating at the weekends when jumping/ga traffic is most intense.
It would be nice if the dropzones could receive the same treatment as danger areas do with a crossing service necessary from ATC.

[Miserlou]

Bear in mind also that there is at least one aircraft constantly climbing or descending in the vicinity and the pilot, whilst he will be looking out more than your average PPL, may have his attention on calculating exit points, or may have his field of vision reduced by the lemmings.

Another point, as mentioned above, they may be dropped as far as 3nm from the field but will generally be under canopy slightly upwind of it.

Did you like the Beaver article in Pilot?

[Aussie Andy]

engineoff said:the standard UK dropzone frequency- so what is it then? Would be good if it were printed on the maps! I don't recall ever coming across this information, and would use it if I knew it!

Andy

[Keef]

Dropzone frequency? That WOULD be useful information to have. Where can it be found?

The only time I called a parachuting airfield to check if they had traffic, I got an earful of abuse and told to stay away. Given 8/8 cloud cover at the time, around 1200 feet, I was surprised they were jumping.

I make a point of not going anywhere near, now. If they're daft enough to jump in IFR, I don't want to be there.

[engineoff]

Standard UK dropzone frequency: 129.90 unless the dropzone is within an ATC with an already assigned frequency..

Jumping with a 1200ft overcast certainly sounds strange unless it was a military area where they do all sorts of strange things. The minimum student despatch height for static line jumps is 3000ft, up to a maximum of 15000 ft for the freefallers.

Some other figures just to put operating limits into perspective..

Minimum flight visibility: 5km
Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible.
Wind Limits: (ground level) Students- 15kts Experienced- 20kts

Certain dropzones may have their own club weather rules which are more stringent than those listed above.

[Aussie Andy]

Standard UK dropzone frequency: 129.90Thanks - is that in the AIP somewhere then?

[BN2A]

Is it not printed on the VFR 1:500,000 map?
Used to be.. In that box on the left..
Or you could always telephone them beforehand..

As said earlier, it is best to call the DZ just as a quick courtesy.
Skydivers get jumpy :yuk: :O if anything other than the jump aircraft is in visual range of the airfield..
I would say a MINIMUM of 2-3 miles from the DZ is a start.. And any more is a bonus.

:)

[Aussie Andy]

I'll check the chart tonight!

[Aussie Andy]

I sent an email to CAA today to ask about this - frustrated that I couldn't find this stuff in the AIP - and got the following response:Strategic information on DZ activity may be obtained from the nominated ATSUs frequencies shown on CAA charts.

DZ phone numbers are in the UK AIP, ENR 5.5

The local frequencies used by each DZ are to be found on BPA Form 192, available on the BPA website - www.bpa.org.uk follow links BPA office - Documents on line.

The BPA document can be accessed here (http://www.bpa.org.uk/forms/docs/Form%20192%20-%20DZ%20Fequencies%20and%20Contacts.doc) - it shows that about 2/3rds of sites use 129.9.

You learn something every day!

Why don't they put the frequencies in the AIP (ref. ENR-5-5-3-1) then?

Now, I've got no excuse!

Andy

[rodan]

As an atco providing a radar service to aircraft from a nearby drop-zone, it amazes and scares me in equal measures just how many other aircraft bumble through the drop-zone - even when they are on my frequency, and I have warned them about the activity.

Antisocial or just stoopid, which one is it guys? :confused:

[squawking 7700]

Have to agree rodan, the number of times I've heard the Waddington controller tell people either Langar, Sibson or Hibaldstow is in their 12 'o' clock makes me wonder, the same is said for glider sites, don't some of these herberts bother to look at a map?

I was listening one time and heard the Waddington controller tell
the pilot (and that aircraft's registration has been mentioned in the past few days on this forum!) that he had just flown through a certain DZ near Peterborough whilst jumping was in progress. The pilot's answer was that he couldn't raise a response on their frequency. I'd have thought if you couldn't raise a response then keep well away.
I believe this incident was reported by the jump plane as an airprox.

There was also the accident in France where a parachutist took 5ft off the wing of a glider.

Squawking 7700