View Full Version : GOODBYE TO YOUR MONEY?


QUERY
15th Oct 2001, 02:39
Article in today's OBSERVER featured plight of Wannabes who've spent and borrowed £££KK. Also, massive loss of business for big flying schools must mean that Cabair, OATS, SFT etc. have huge deficit in projected cash flow.
After PPSC, Euroflyers etc. any rumours about the next receivership?
Cannot be a wise time to spend anything more on professional training but for PPL must be the best and cheapest time to learn.



lagonda
15th Oct 2001, 03:18
Judging a good time or bad time is always difficult.

You maybe right that with changes in demand, flight schools may welcome you with open arms.

As always, do the research and ALWAYS pay with a credit card - they underwrite your costs, in effect, if the school goes t*ts up.

GoneWest
15th Oct 2001, 06:00
Query..apart from the fact that you are heavily involved with a PPL flying school, (who I was just told is in dire straights), why is NOW the CHEAPEST and BEST time to get a PPL?

QUERY
16th Oct 2001, 05:09
All flying schools must be having tough times and anyone who says they aren't, or targets one, is dodgy. I have no involvement in aviation, other than as a customer, and my 'PPL recommendation' was purely general.
The rather obvious reply to 'Gone West' is:
More competition (reduced demand), cheaper fuel, instructor pay cuts etc. must mean lower training prices. Also, if you are going residential, accommodation costs lower, because of reduced travel and tourism, and, if you decide to train abroad, lower flight costs.
I recommend PPL now simply because it must be an excellent time to train but you won't have the current Wannabe nightmare of competing- for almost no pilot jobs.
I'm unconcerned about whether, or with whom, you train- just look in Flyer and Pilot and choose if, what and where you please.

Apparently well qualified Brit., in USA and mouthy, so where, or for whom, does 'Gone West' work or do business? Is it legal?

QUERY
16th Oct 2001, 05:32
My first question has alraedy been answered..

GoneWest
Just another number

Member # 31523
posted 14 August 2001 23:40
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Naples Air Center, Florida
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Posts: 147 | From: Florida, USA | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Anyone know the answer to the second question?

GoneWest
16th Oct 2001, 08:42
Adrian, you poor sad muppet.

I apparently touched a nerve.

Haven't a clue what your previous edit/assembled message was actually saying - though I strongly suspect that you are attempting to suggest that I am employed by Naples Air Center. Wrong!!

We've had this conversation before - when you went under the banner of "Henri". If you have forgotten (again) the meaning of the phrase "anonymous forums" (cut and paste from the rider, below) it means that people do not have to disclose who they are or what they do. I will tell you once again, however, that I am not employed by Naples Air Center.

If you wish to start disclosing true identities, start with yourself - then I will follow....and tell you again (but you already know).

Think about it...Naples is in Miami FSDO (the second largest FSDO)area - I work with Orlando FSDO (third largest)...a long long way away.

I've said before - on these pages - that I do have first hand knowledge of Naples Air Center...as I do with Orlando Flight Training, Debenair, Britannia, FlightSafety and PanAm. Also have much more limited experience of E.F.T. (Trevor Brackston's new gig), Ari Ben Aviator, Ambassador Airways, I.F.T. (Stephen Fischer's gig), Embry-Riddle and even a bit about a school I attended up near Daytona Beach. I think it also called itself after a beach - but we are not allowed to discuss it on pprune, because the owner bursts into tears and threatens legal action as soon as anybody says anything bad about it.

If you want an opinion though - the OVERALL best training school of all twelve of those Florida outfits is Naples Air Center. I've said this before - and maybe that is where you get your ideas from...indeed, whenever anybody says anything good about (almost) any school you immediately acuse them of being the marketing department and an employee.

Second question?? I have a security clearance with the FAA - that's how I manage to get into the building at Orlando FSDO.

Legal? I would think so.

If you wish to chase your tail on nothing of importance then go ahead. When you get bored, drop me a line and I'll send you my FAA Reference Number, my Business Licence Number and my Green Card Number....but it will cost you dearly. :p

Naples Air Center, Inc.
16th Oct 2001, 09:42
QUERY QUERY QUERY(or is it Adrian?),

How come anyone that has anything positive to say about my school is accused of being an employee? (1000 employees strong and growing I guess :))

Here is the entire thread in question (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=010489).

Sincerely,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

QUERY
17th Oct 2001, 03:37
What are you guys/gays going on about?
Richard sells his school for free on PPRune.
Gone West recommended them and denies it but still won't tell what he/she is up to.
Are they fooling anyone?
Anyway, the point is-good time to go for PPL.

Di - Hedral
17th Oct 2001, 05:18
QUERY - Cool it.
There's plenty of good advice to be had.
Remember, one day you may get as far as the MCC or CRM, & name calling just won't wash.
Good luck with you quest, I for one still think that British is Best. Unfortunately, as you point out, most of them appear to be struggling to keep their heads above water.
Why not try a Brit School that has teamed up with a US base? This should give you the best all round solution.
I could suggest some but would you trust me? :( :rolleyes:

Charlie Foxtrot India
18th Oct 2001, 18:50
I am trying to get the logic behind this:
"More competition (reduced demand), cheaper fuel, instructor pay cuts etc. must mean lower training prices. Also, ... if you decide to train abroad, lower flight costs."

I'm not sure where you mean by "abroad" but here in Aus the price of Avgas just keeps going up and up.

More competition, when flying training organisations are going belly up all over the place? ??

It amazes me how many people seem to think that the flying schools are raking in huge profits. The margin is somewhere between five and ten percent, and when cashflow is down, the only cuts you can make are to cut your losses, sell up and get a job in IT.

Cuts in instructor's wages? Hell I've just realised this must be a wind up! :o silly me.

QUERY
19th Oct 2001, 00:52
No wind-up, mate, it's all market forces.
People on another thread (inc.WWW) have suggested that some poor sods will be instructing for little more than nine tenths of F.A., or pay to do it! Sorry, but there's always someone desparate to do it.
I don't imagine they have high margins and agree that plenty more schools will disappear but there is going to be fierce competition between the survivors for those who wish to train.
If you decide to train abroad, the price of late booking charter flights is peanuts (saw many UK-Orlando £99 returns on one site !)
Cannot comment on OZ but the price of Avgas is always ludicrous (and probably rigged by suppliers) everywhere. But oil price has come down significantly in recent weeks and petrol prices have already been cut in UK. Cheaper Avgas will surely follow.
Remember, also, that 'CAA' PPL course prices went up very quickly and by about 50%- for some good reasons (JAA requirements, fuel costs, shortage of qualified staff)-when there was plenty of training business for the big schools. That's all just changed, so the cuts are coming.
The point is- good time to do JAA PPL.