View Full Version : Info warning


Colin Monkfish
13th Feb 2003, 13:14
I'm new to these forums but have read extensivley the talk over Training schools and routes of modular versus integrated and I would like to offer my opinion.

It seems that all the schools information and promotion is soley undertaken by the schools themselves in disguise, trying to put others down and raise them selves.

This is also true with the modualr integrated route. It is obvious some are trying the promote the distance learning route. I really think this channel is no substitute for integrated training which is designed for the brighter and more able student. Surely its these people we want in aviation.

On a final note, as a former librarian and profficient at deciphering information I would advise people not to pay much attention.

Be perceptive, think impartiality



Capt BK
13th Feb 2003, 13:23
"the brighter and more able student"

Does anybody know of a way to stop my blood boiling and my head exploding with rage!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I don't have £60k so that makes me dimmer and less able to be a pilot does it!

The sheer arrogance of some integrated students takes my breath away sometimes.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If this is some kind of joke I appologise for falling for it but their really are people out there that think like this!!

FlyingForFun
13th Feb 2003, 13:28
Colin,

You state that "all the schools information and promotion is soley undertaken by the schools themselves". Well, of course! I'm pretty sure if I go into my local Indian restaurant, they'll tell me they sell the best curry in the area, too! If I want a better idea of where to get the best curry, I have to visit every restaurant, look at the menu from each of them, and then make my own mind up. But of course comparing the menus might be a reasonable reflection of how good the food is, but it's certainly not perfect - which is why it would be even better to get a personal recommendation or two.

Then you go on to say: "It is obvious some are trying the promote the distance learning route". Once again, I suspect my local Indian restaurant would tell me that curry is far better than Chinese food. Now, even personal recommendations aren't going to be too much use, because many of my friends prefer Chinese to Indian food. Personally, I love a good curry, but I'm indifferent to Chinese food.

And finally, you advise me to "Be perceptive, think impartiality". So, on that note, do you mind if I ask what you do now that you're no longer a librarian? Because I'm sure I could be forgiven for guessing that maybe you work for a school which offers an integrated course?

FFF
----------------

Julian
13th Feb 2003, 13:47
Calm down guys, looking at Monkys post and his profile I suspect he is a windup trying to provoke you.

We all know ex-librarians would be too slow to command a fast moving jet anyway ... :=

distaff_beancounter
13th Feb 2003, 14:01
Following FFF 's example, I would contend, that
Intergrated courses are like a sit-down meal in the Indian restaurant, whereas the Distance Learning course, is a takeaway from the same restaurant. Busy peolpe may only have the time for the takeaway, but if the restaurant's beancounters have got the costings right, then it should make a profit out of both services.

Colin Monkfish
I think that you will find that most of the larger FTOs offer BOTH intergrated AND modular courses.

As for intergrated courses only being for the "brighter & more able student" there are two schools of thought:-

You may be correct, OR

Anyone who can hold down the day job, while fitting in the study & flying on the modular course, may well be better motivated, better organised, & better at multi-tasking, than the student on the intergrated course, who has everything set out in a timetable, with instructors to ensure that he keeps up to date with all his studies.

As for unauthorised advertising, yes a lot of the posts are from people who work for FTOs. BUT, both the moderators & other Ppruners seem to spot such advertising pretty quickly. You will see that in the bottom right hand corner of each post is a button marked Report this post to a notify moderator . That allows Ppruners to draw attention to advertising.

MJR
13th Feb 2003, 14:06
Yes Colins right, people that do integrated courses are generally more intelligent, additionally they are better looking, good in bed and able to crack the Rubiks cube in 3.5 minutes. Naturally such desirable people are guaranteed to get a job at the end of their training, but not a crappy turbo prop job, a proper flying job with one of the big majors. Such talent doesn't go un-rewarded and command is likley within 5 - 10 hours.

ps. some of this is not true, see if you can determine which

:) mjr

foghorn
13th Feb 2003, 14:10
Whoop whoop

Wind up!

Colin Monkfish
13th Feb 2003, 14:20
I resent the implication that people may think this is a joke a wind up or whatever you would wish to call it. I am interested in aviation and feel that these forums are to be used constructively to provide honest information. If people don't value my opinion then I suppse thats fair enough.

I certainly don't work for a school and the only license I hold is for fishing. Probably too old to start a career in aviation anyway but I have a nephew who is interested and am trying to find the best info for him. Library life was too fraught I am now a data conservationalist.

Hufty
13th Feb 2003, 14:35
If people don't value your opinion it can only be because it HAS no value.

If this is a wind up then you should maybe go and do something a little more constructive with the (obviously) large amount of free time that you have.

If this isn't a wind up then you should talk to a few more people in the industry to understand why it has solicited a number of angry responses.

distaff_beancounter
13th Feb 2003, 14:38
Library life was too fraught ....
..... and there was me, finding that accountancy was so fraught, that I took up flying for relaxation ..... :D :)

BillieBob
13th Feb 2003, 14:48
I resent the implication that people may think this is a joke a wind up or whatever you would wish to call it.
I wouldn't be too resentful, Colin, people are only trying to be kind. If this were not a wind-up, the only remaining explanation would be that you were a brainless prat - and that can't be true, can it?

By the way, what's a conservationalist? Anything similar to a conservationist?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hufty
13th Feb 2003, 14:51
It is somebody who installs conservatories I think.... :)

distaff_beancounter
13th Feb 2003, 15:39
Come to think of it .....

we have got a couple of "data conservationalists" in the office .....

Only we call them ..... File-servers :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Colin Monkfish
13th Feb 2003, 16:27
Is there no one that shares my opinon.
I think you must all be from training schools.
I think I have made my point

FlyingForFun
13th Feb 2003, 16:33
Colin,

I don't believe anyone on this thread has expressed any preference of modular vs integrated courses, except you. In fact, both distaff and myself have explicitly said that both types of training have their own merits.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. And you are entitled to argue your opinion. But when it's an opinion which a lot of people disagree with (note - that doesn't mean we agree with the opposite opinion either) you'd better be able to argue your reasons. And you can't.

FFF
-------------

Dean Johnston
13th Feb 2003, 16:35
Hufty,

It's not someone who Installs conservatories, it's someone that has a lot of information about them. I've just asked my pal ' Paddy O'dors' he has a lot to do with them.

D.J.

Hufty
13th Feb 2003, 16:56
I am a modular student, but only as I am clearly retarded and not intelligent or skilled enough for an integrated course.

Fact is I have a PPL already and am most of the way to being eligible to begin the CPL course (exams passed) - no point in starting from scratch and spending £30k more than I need to! I would have found it much easier to do an integrated course, but I am successful at work so it would be a financial disaster to throw all that away - as is the case for a lot of people.

There is a wealth of information on these forums, so you should encourage your nephew to browse for himself.

distaff_beancounter
13th Feb 2003, 18:38
Colin Monkfish
In the UK, all commercial flight training is carried out under the syllabus laid down by the Joint Aviation Authourity (JAA), and this is overseen by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA),

Regardless of whether students follow an intergrated course or a modular course, in the end they all have to pass exactly the same ground exams & flight tests. And, these are certainly not easy.

In your first post, you seem to imply that Flight Training Organisations (FTOs) and/or their students are at fault in pursuing modular courses, because YOU consider only intergrated courses, can produce pilots of the standard that YOU consider acceptable.

If this is so, may I suggest that you should be voiceing your views to the JAA and/or CAA,. They are the only authorities that can change the system, and outlaw modular training.....

......that is, of course, if they agree with your opinions.

Mintflavour
13th Feb 2003, 19:41
While you are reeling us all in,
we all end up in the same boat, we share the same exam room and then become unemployed pilots, modular and intergrated together. so what the hell.

Shame that some narrow minded people think that us modular students are not very bright. guess we are the gugins of the river.

(sorry Im not bright enough to spell that fish I was just on about there)

Mint

Sir Donald
13th Feb 2003, 20:13
Dear Colin Monkfish
Suggest that you join the professional fishermans rumour network as you opinion on integrated vs modular holds no truth, probably as you do just that, talk to the fish all day long, and come up with such C****P!
Please don't come on the forum and insult a lot of hard working,
determined individuals who maybe are not priviledged/have access to loads of £££££ or time or both.
Your theory has nothing to do with intelegence and ability.

Dean Johnston
13th Feb 2003, 20:58
Colin,

I think you should go back to 'Daddy' and say 'Daddy' there Ganging up on me what shall I say now. He'll probably say " Don't worry son, we had Mods in the 60's and they all had scooters" there you go son you can have a Big Chopper.

Nuf sed. Pleese excuse the spilling, but I'm only a Mod.

D.J.

cunningplanmylord
13th Feb 2003, 21:18
Monkfish,

You are a fool

Colin Monkfish
13th Feb 2003, 21:34
Dear Sir Donald

Your theory has nothing to do with intelegence and ability

point proven I would say.....

clear prop!!!
13th Feb 2003, 21:48
Now what is REALY scary is that there is the ‘hint’ that some people are taking this thread even a tad seriously!!!:D :D :D :D

OBK!
13th Feb 2003, 22:10
**slaps monk-person with dead trout**

hm hm, didn't Bristol "woop" everyones ass last year with ATPL scores? (Bristols are solely distance learning btw!)

Monk-person......

Your in the wrong forum mate, this is for pilots/wannabes.:}

Wrong Stuff
13th Feb 2003, 22:20
Oh dear, oh dear - despite several fairly blatant giveaways quite a few people seem to have taken the bait.

as a former librarian and profficient at deciphering information
A former librarian who can't even spell???

Library life was too fraught I am now a data conservationalist
Library life too fraught :eek: - yeah, sure! And what's a "conservationalist" - the word is conservationist even in the US. Nobody except the terminally stupid can't spell their own job title!!

As for the name Colin Monkfish, it could just be a handle but it sure ain't their real name - Monkfish is an extremely rare surname, if there are any at all. Alternatively it could just be another blatant hint - the monkfish is also known as the anglerfish because of the way it attracts its prey. Dangle the bait and reel 'em in...

Send Clowns
14th Feb 2003, 00:08
As one of the accused I feel that I should treat this thread seriously, although I cannot see how it could be anything but a wind up. Here goes.

Colin, although I work for an FTO I do not post anything at the request of my employers, I post my opinions as a private individual. I also have the unique position of having sat an entire JAA course to frozen ATPL, so have seen that view and believe I have something to add, those that disagree may freely ignore me as I am sure many do. I have been posting since I was in groundschool as a student (originally under the name a_random, if you wish to check any of this!) and have been consistent in my comments on learning routes and my opinions of FTOs, even before I worked for the two I have worked for.

Every time I post concerning modular and integrated courses I mention I work for a modular course provider and most importantly I give reasons for my views, argument in their favour. This is the case with most of those you seek to criticise, even those with whom I disagree generally back their statements.

You have not advanced a single argument to support your case, your assertions. You have just posted your view as fact, and it shows very litte knowledge of the system let alone backing for your judgement.

no substitute for integrated training which is designed for the brighter and more able studentAdmit it - you just made this up. For a start distance learning is not the only alternative to integrated, your nephew could study full-time on a modular course. The course is the same length, examined to the same standards with schools inspected by the same people against the same criteria. In some schools the same instructors teach the same course to integrated and modular students.

More importantly we advise that only the brightest, most able students sit distance learning by choice, that others should study full-time if they can afford to leave their jobs. Others struggle, and I am impressed with those (like FFF) who do well on this basis.

Integrated courses are designed as a sausage factory, to get as many as possible of those that start the course out with licences in the fixed time, minimum disruption and extra cost. That is how they should be, that is why the airlines use them, they tend to be good at it.
I think you must all be from training schoolsThe only person I know personally who has posted here is currenty enrolled as a student in an FTO. I see it as disgracefully rude to assume he and the others here are lying without any attempt to justify your claim.
Be perceptive, think impartialityYour correction of someone's spelling was not called for. That is not popular here. If you do it make sure your grammar is not pitifully poor.

My suggestion is that your nephew go visit a few schools, of different specialisations (a couple of integrated, some modular perhaps some that do groundschool some that just do the flying, some distance learning groundschool only). Let him talk to people, get advice, talk to students, find the feel of each school. Let him look at the options without his view being coloured by your partiality. Let him look here, without you commenting from a position of ignorance. Then he may find the route that is right for him.

Wee Weasley Welshman
14th Feb 2003, 09:17
Colin the ATPL exams are the same for all. If you can pass them via distance learning then you have probably had to work harder than by attending a full time groundschool.

I did correspondence course myself and went on to work for BAe Jerez where I taught many students all of whom were following a full time groundschool.

Your posting was so crass that it illicited strong replies. I myself can't decide whether you are a wind up artist or not.

WWW

MJR
14th Feb 2003, 09:51
Why is everyone biting Monkfish's thread, why give him the satisfaction?

Grivation
14th Feb 2003, 10:19
I suggest using some of those well honed CRM skills and just tell him to - **** off!!

Chuffer Chadley
14th Feb 2003, 18:29
Hello!

Some of you have been mentioning the 'Brighter and More Able Student', and well, speak of the Devil, and here I am!:D

Shurely this bright and able chap/chapess will be bright enough to spot that his ability will brightly shine through whichever route he/she chooses? And the VERY brightest and MOST able will realise that, as they will perform well anyway, will take the less expensive option. Leaving more money spare for computer games, trainers, and FI ratings. And pink gin.

Ho, hum! You pays your money (£30-£60k, it's up to you), and takes yer' choice!

Ciao!
CC

High Wing Drifter
14th Feb 2003, 18:43
Jeesus! This thread should have died twenty posts ago.

scroggs
16th Feb 2003, 10:29
Yes, it should! It's not April 1st, is it? You guys have been well and truly suckered in to a monumental wind-up. Well done, 'Colin'! Propounding deeply controversial views on Wannabes the day you register? Excellent!

Claiming to be an ex-librarian (who left because 'library life was too fraught'!) and pulling people up on their spelling while demonstrating a slender grasp of the English language was a master stroke, but I think my favorite bit was the listing of 'aircraft spotting and draughts' as interests! Did no-one else read his profile?

I have an inkling who this might be, but I shall have to do a bit of digging... stand by for any revelations I can dig up!

Scroggs

Tonic Please
17th Feb 2003, 08:01
Just passing by...but is a "lab technician" the same as a "Data Conservationalist" ? :confused:

Smooth skies,

Dan

Julian
17th Feb 2003, 10:16
Well I read it and did try to warn everyone....must be because I am modular no one realised what I was trying to say :}

Mintflavour
17th Feb 2003, 12:38
Im a modular student (distance learning) as I am doing a full time job as a Project/systems engineer at the same time and I got my results for module 1 today.

Mass &Balance 97%
Instruments 93%
Flt Planning 95%
Gen. Nav 93%
MET 85%
HPL 96%
VFR Comm 91%
IFR Comm 91%

this must mean everybody who did intergrated must have almost achieved 100%, nice one.

Mint

Tonic Please
17th Feb 2003, 19:57
Whatever they achieved, let me take this oppotunity to pass on my congratulations :)

Smooth skies, and the best of luck.

Dan


p.s - no one answered my question a couple threads up :confused:

eagerbeaver
21st Feb 2003, 09:28
smells like a frenchman who terrorised the site a while back.

Colin Monkfish
24th Feb 2003, 13:23
I would now like to finally lay this topic to rest.

On my continued search for my nephew I came across the GAPAN article, 'So you want to be a pilot'.

It states here

"It is generally accpeted the best route to becoming a professional pilot is by way of INTEGRATED training at an accepted JAR FCL aprroved FTO"

If GAPAN states this then (I am sorry for anyone who has contrary views), this is surely proof enough. My only hope now is that those on modular courses accept the fact they are not as sought after or highly regarded as the Integrated student.

Case Closed

Mintflavour
24th Feb 2003, 13:49
It proves nothing mate.

As I Quote
"I really think this channel is no substitute for integrated training which is designed for the brighter and more able student. Surely its these people we want in aviation".

This comment is seriously out of order and obviously you have not listened to the comments made since. Please remove this annoying thread once and for all.

If your Nephew is so bright why are you doing all the research??

Mint

scroggs
24th Feb 2003, 15:13
Anyone else noticed that 'Colin's' occupation is now 'tree surgeon'? An interesting transmogrification from 'librarian'! I suspect a cunning plan is afoot...... !

Scroggs

MJR
24th Feb 2003, 15:25
Scroggs I have noticed from your details that your registered on PPRUNE back in 1970 sometime in fact, before the advent of the internet. Is it possible that this latest version of the scarebus that you drive has some sort of time-space interface portal that actually allows you to do this?

TTFN


MJR

scroggs
24th Feb 2003, 15:35
Nice idea! The reality is somewhat simpler: when the new Pprune software was installed, all those who'd registered on the Mk1 Pprune (when it was still an e-mailed Rumours and News Bulletin, back in 1996/97) were credited with registering in Jan 1970 - I can't explain why! Some have since had their original registration dates restored, but you'll still find a few like mine.

Scroggs

BoeingMEL
27th Feb 2003, 14:14
Oh dear Mister Colin Monkfish! How can we view your postings with any credibilty? The "librarian" who is "profficient" (sic) in deciphering commits almost a DOZEN spelling and grammatical errors in just two brief messages! Hope you find someone to write your job applications after you leave school! In the meantime every good wish and good luck to all Wannabes.... tough times ahead (again) but the good times will return. BM