Canadian VS US training

[smallwing]

Ladies and Gents out there,. .. .I found doing my CPL-IR/ME costs would be the same in Canada or the US. Where is the recommended location?. .. .I am holding a FAA PPL and is familiar with the airspace, but I am looking at cost wise and which license is more beneficial in foreign countries.. .. .Hope you guys/gals out there can help me.. .. .THX!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 20 March 2002, 16:22: Message edited by: smallwing ]</small>

[smallwing]

Just wanna refresh this see if anyone is kind enough to shed some light for me. . .. .Thanks in advance!

[ronnie123]

try sun air in calif. in a small town cmarillo,. .nice place to fly.. .close from hk too.. .hey you in hk or kowloon.. .they have a web site ,i cant remember search for them.

[Jetgate]

Smallwing,. .. .I too did some research before training abroad due to the prohibitive costs in the UK. When researching I recall reading a site in NZ that stated 'Emirates only used to hire Canadian, British or NZ pilots in the 80's' and the reason given was that their theory content was to a higher standard. I then found my school when attending one of the Flight Training Exhibition's in London and headed off to Vancouver on Canada's beautiful west coast. The Canadian aviation authorities have negotiated a deal with Canadian immigration whereby a foreigner who completes at least a Canadian CPL & Instructor rating is allowed to work as an Instructor (ONLY!) for a maximum of 1 Year and is also allowed to earn unrestricted. Then as your earning they even allow you to recoup some of your incurred training costs against your income tax!! (This country actively promotes GA from government level!!!!! Yes shock horror...). .. .There are also tons of Chinese and Hong Kong students training in Vancouver due to it's close links with Hong Kong. They do some time call Vancouver, Hongcouver! Some of the hanger talk I heard while there was that the Chief Pilot or a senior manager of Crewing for CX was a Canadian. There are loads Canadian and Canadian trained pilots working for CX and one of my old students was CX cabin crew and if you'd like I could pass your e-maill address to her for more info?. .. .All I can say is that the 2.5 years I spent in Vancouver were the best in my life so far. The west coast is beautiful and as most of your initial flying will be VFR what glorious scenery!! Wonderful people, low crime and extensive social amenities. Oh and the Skiing, the beaches, islands, girls, beer (yep Stella on drought boys....) and for a brit abroad you can even get proper fish & chips wrapped in newspaper with mushy peas.......need I say more?. .. .I have now returned home and are in the process of converting to JAR. Haven't found anything in my first seven subjects that is rocket science. Nearly all of the material I'm covering now has been thought or explained to me while in Canada, admittedly not to the same EXTENSIVE detail as the JAR syllabus. I have heard about some US trained guys converting and suffering with the theory (please let's not start a war !!! I'm merely stating what I have heard......) In your case the FAA PPL can be easily converted while training and then attaining your Canandian CPL.. .. .All in all if you have to choose then I'd say Canadian West coast hands down, it's one of aviations best kept secrets!. .. .All the best with your decision making.. .. .Jetgate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 26 March 2002, 14:41: Message edited by: Jetgate ]</small>

[jasonjdr]

Jetgate,. .. .Can you recommend a school or club to hire from nr Vancouver. I'm looking to mix a holiday with some hour building later this year. Always wanted to go to Vancouver, heard so many good things about the area and thought it would be good to mix both. My other half has already been and can't wait to get back.. .. .Ideally, I'm looking to hire a twin (seneca II or III would be great). But would live with a single if costs are too high.. .. .Many thanks in advance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Jetgate]

Kernow, I was at Pacific Flying Club (www.pacificflying.com) and they have a Seneca 1 which is in good nick. However, unless trained at PFC, for self fly-hire you need to complete a 5 Hour checkout (for Twin's only)! They are in the process of getting another twin but I'm not sure what type as yet but I would think the checkout requirements will probably be the same (this is due to Insurance requirements by their underwriter who is Lloyds). There is also a company called Montair at CZBB (Boundary Bay) which has a couple of excellent Seneca 2's which you could have a look at. I don't know what their web address is but I'm sure if you find a Canadian search engine then it will point you in the right direction.. .. .You will have a FANTASTIC time and August is brilliant for VFR. I can recommend a strip called Tofino to visit and it's on the western side of Vancouver Island which is very remote and pretty. GA parking is right next to the Golf course restaurant and you can take a short stroll to the beach which is gorgeous and has a great surf, also, many pilots camp on the beach overnight!. .. .Have fun,. .. .Jetgate.. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 20:52: Message edited by: Jetgate ]</small>

[cleartoland04]

Hey everyone,. .. .I'm also very interested in training in Canada. I've already lived there for 2 years and it just happened to be the perfect flying place for me. . .The landscapes you're flying over are just beautiful, you have quality training thanks to very qualified intructors and all weather conditions (did my first flight in a C-150 at -30C!), and all this at a reasonable price.. .. .Coastal Pacific is one of the schools I had a look at and although they seem to offer excellent training you might not want to be with 90% of Chinese and Japanese guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like them but you might feel isolated and not really integrated. Maybe Jetgate could confirm or deny that.. .. .Another good solution seems to be on the other side of the coast (a bit less breath taking though I must admit). Have a look at the Moncton Flight College in Moncton (www.mfc.nb.ca), I had great feedback from previous students.. .. .All in all I think training in Canada is really worth it unless you're looking at coming back to Europe cause the financial benefit will then be cancelled, the convertion price being really high (once again jetgate any comments welcomed). But the experience abroad can be unique and I think Canada has that unique thing that makes your training unforgettable, like going on a camping/fishing w.e with a float in a remote area and have the impression that you’re alone in the world!. .. .Whatever your path, enjoy!. .. .Clear

[smallwing]

Been There, Jetgate and all others,. .. .Thank you for the feedback and info.. .. .Jetgate, I have been looking at PFC as well, as my girlfriend did some flying out there. In contact with the club now to see if I can get more info before finalising. I hold a FAA PPL which they require me to be converted before training is available.. .. .As far as flight training is concern, I have nothing against the FAA standards, but I have heard it is not always acceptable with foreign airlines.. .. .For others interested in flying in Vancouver, the closes will be Boundary Bay.. .. .<a href="http://www.czbb.com/links.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.czbb.com/links.shtml</a>. .. .Hope the wx gets better as it has not been that stable as of recent.. .. .Thanks again guys and keep on coming with the advice!. .. .Cheers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Golden Monkey]

Just to back up JetGate. The scenery, costs, beer, women, skiing, and everything else is marvellous. Lived in Vancouver for 14 months and would highly recommend it. Got a PPL w/night flying from CZBB with Regency - going back this summer to hopefully get multi on the way to CPL, and am planning to emmigrate at some point. . .. .Can't beat hiring an aircraft for £35/hr in those surroundings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Jetgate]

OK answering Cleartoland’s points, the reason why I emphasised on the Oriental student population is because Smallwing also comes from HK!!!! I tried to make him aware that he won’t feel isolated, in-fact part of a multi race student pilot community. BC prides in it’s diverse culture and so it should.. .. .The time I felt most isolated was when flying through Quebec. Talk about a Republican attitude!! If you did choose the East coast a knowledge of French aeronautical comms would be quite handy as most French-Canadian pilots insist on French RT and therefore can leave the English speaking pilot totally lost as to the others position and intentions. I know, as I had my closest Near-Miss whilst diverting due to poor Visibility in un-controlled airspace. Was established on downwind, making the calls, when this idiot nearly broadsided me. Yeah he was crossing mid field at or near circuit height!! The air ground advisory chappy apologised to me and said that all Transport Quebec pilots only speak French REGARDLESS when over the province of Quebec. I have to add that after we landed every one we met on the ground was really helpful and friendly. Also, when in controlled airspace, the Controllers are MAGNIFICENT with there ability to switch excellently between the two languages while giving position reports in English & French.. .. .OK RANT over …errr…may be not…… Yes there are times when the temperatures can and do drop to high minus numbers and thereby giving your little 152 rocketship performance but please don’t think that all of Canada is full of Igloos and Innuit’s (for those wondering it is the new politically correct term for Eskimo). These temperatures will never happen in lower and central BC due to the warm Pacific Air & other reasons, Toronto can have +30 in the summer. 2000/2001 winter was very very harsh in New Brunswick/ Nova Scotia and even Toronto/Ottawa area’s. Many flight schools in those regions actually shutdown. If you don’t believe me ask SpinSpinSugar, his instructor was from around there. We had quite a lot of Instructors coming over looking for work in Boundary Bay. Yes BC has quite a harsh winter too but it is at least good enough for IFR and can give you great actual IMC experience. Something to consider when doing the Instrument Rating……. .. .I will also have to disagree with Cleartoland on the conversion aspect (this is not personal, honest!) I still say that my whole flight training costs including conversion will be cheaper than the lowest UK price. Cost of living in Canada is next to nothing when compared to here, what you earn as an Instructor becomes more or less tax free, your IFR will be discounted if your already working for the school as a VFR instructor and at the end of the day you have two different licences making you even more marketable. When Canada3000 went down the first pilot to get himself off the unemployed pool was an ex-pat brit on the strength of his CAA licence, flying a Challenger out of the Sand Pit! He also has an FAA ATP and is in the process of completing his MSc in Air Transport Management with City University in London. This fella is obviously a Hound for knowledge but the moral of the story is you can never be over qualified in this game. I know I digressed a wee bit but, Cleartoland, with regard to the Conversion, CPL will only need some local procedural training prior to test, the Instructor Rating only needs 15hrs A/C and 30hrs Ground prior to test. However the IR and the ATPL theory course are a whole different stinking fish with regards to cost and hour requirements. You shouldn’t really have too much bother with the ground and flying exams as Canada would have given you a decent start and also as you should have close to a 1000hrs of experience by then……. .. .I would say if you like the East then MFC would be good for you Cleartoland.. .. .Smallwing, a phone call to the Vancouver Transport Canada office should give you the exact requirements for FAA to Canadian PPL. I really don’t think it’s much though….. .. .SpinSpinSugar, good to see you around! I sent you some Av Jokes by e-mail couple of weeks ago… did you get them mate?. .. .Must go as this post has become huge and I must dive back in to my massive pile of JAA notes…… alas no rest for the wicked!! . .. .Oh Canada……

[smallwing]

Thx Jetgate,. .. .I grew up in the Bahamas so I am quite gweilo. But thanks again for the concern.. .. .Language is a big thing, and hopefully I don't have to remember my third grade french.. .. .a tout a l'heure mes amis!. .. .PS Jetgate, are you any chance Sri Lanken??. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 05:57: Message edited by: smallwing ]</small>

[cleartoland04]

Hello guys,. .. .Jetgate, I never said multi cultural/racial environment is a bad thing or I wouldn't consider Canada at all as the population of this country is based on hundreds of different nationalities who live perfectly well together. My point was just to emphasize the fact that it might be difficult to feel integrated when the majority of your fellows have the "same" cultural background, especially when it is quite different from yours. It's just what you've illustrated with your experience in Quebec, when people are in majority they tend not to make the same amount of effort to help others feel at ease than they would if they were themselves a minority. . .I don't know how to explain that but to me it's better to train with a mix of canadians, americans, europeans, africans, asians and so on than with a majority of one or another cause everyone has to consider others differences and adapt to them, the result being much more interesting relations and interactions with the other students. . .Right now I work in a company that boasts at least 25 different nationalities among its employees, speaking over 20 languages from German to Japanese, Swedish to Spanish and it’s working very well because noone is left aside.. .. .I just emphasized that point cause I think it’s important to consider such things when you choose a location to train…you have to be 110% into it and the better you feel the easier it’s gonna be. I hope you’re getting my point, I favor cultural mixes and I think Canada is the perfect example that different races, religions, can live together in peace but some people may not feel comfortable if they’re not part of the gang (especially when you’re far away from home). Anyway, I didn’t mean to offend anyone and if I did I apologize!. .. .I’m looking at the East coast more because my gf is from New Brunswick than because I think it’s a better place, I actually love the west much better. But you made a good point Jetgate, training on the east coast might require some knowledge in French, not for ATC or training matters but to be able to understand the guy who announces himself at 1500 ft, just like you, but on the opposite direction! It can be scary. Being a frog myself I don’t have any problem with French but I’m looking at training in an english speaking environment and I think NB is the perfect place for that. For those who are looking at staying in Canada however, I think that being bilingual gives them a real advantage.. .. .As for the conversion it would be great to have some feedback as I’d like to combine a Canadian CPL/IR Multi with its JAA equivalent…. .. .Anyway, I hope I cleared things a bit and once again I didn’t want to make a bad impression on anyone, although my message was a bit ambiguous. The funny thing is that I’m learning Chinese, have been practicing Kung-Fu for a few years and HK movies are my favorites…I just tried to tell potential students to look at every point and see if they can cope with it.. .. .Cheers,. .. .Clear, citizen of the world <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[smallwing]

Hey Clear,. .. .See you are in Toulouse, do you get to visit the Airbus plants?. .. .It is a sad thing that Airbus do not have more of their products sold at Av Shops instead of just from their website.. .. .Any further info you can provide us about Airbus/Toulouse would be appreciated.. .. .Thx,. .. .SW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Jetgate]

Clear, point noted and agreed. Your initial post didn't seem to indicate as such....... However I'd like to address one of your earlier questions and clarify that Vanouver isn't over-run by folk from the Orient. There are a lot and in flight training, a modest amount (they have also started offering ESL courses to improve RT at CZBB) so you will get to mix with Brit's, German's, Dutch, American (yeah some actually prefer it!!!), S.American etc. . .. .Smallwing, in BC, Alberta and onward towards western Ottawa English is all that you hear and would need. If flying beyond then French can be extremely useful but not an extreme necessity. Yes I'm originally from Sri-Lanka, you must have figured it from my last name.......? . .. .On a side note, Boeing's two sites accepting visitors is only a stones throw from CZBB! And yes you can fly in there too....... and yes spend all your flying money on 'I ain't going if it ain't Boeing' goodies at the gift shops. . .. .Before someone starts getting upset, NO BOEING DOESN'T MARKET ANYTHING WITH THAT SLOGAN! . .. .I was just kidding.. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 20:54: Message edited by: Jetgate ]</small>

[SpiralDive]

As far as training at Boundary Bay goes I've heard a lot of good things said about ProIFR. You can check them out at <a href="http://www.proifr.com" target="_blank">http://www.proifr.com</a> From what I've heard these guys seem to have a really good reputation among Canadian pilots. I had a buddy train with them but I don't have any first hand knowledge cause I went the opposite way of you guys and did my training in Europe. Anyways, worth giving them a call for comparison purposes as they seem to be familiar with training folks from other countries.

[cleartoland04]

Ladies,. .. .Smallwing, yes I did visit the Airbus plant, I even did some A330 simulator last week...damn I even (try to) sell the aircraft!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .If you have any questions please ask, I'll do my best to answer them.. .. .Clear who's not going if it's Boeing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> just kidding!. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 08:49: Message edited by: cleartoland04 ]</small>

[smallwing]

Clear, you are a very lucky person, as I would like to get a go at the plant but no chance.. .I like any kind of aircrafts as anything technical can "get me off" so to speak. I enjoy Airbus' advancement and greatest of luck to the 380.. .. .Any new news on the double deck bus you can share??. .. .Jetgate, you were my girlfriend's instructor, when she was there in July. She works for CX, and just chance that I guess it was you. I didn't even think to check your profile. Silly me.. .. .Thanks all on the info, I am almost there!. .. .Cheers.

[minus273]

Well will add my 2 cents worth, I went to the Moncton Flight College (MFC) in NB.. .. .I really enjoyed the flying there and the instructors were great.. .. .I am also a Cathay brat, and working in the US after doing my conversions.. .. .Think that MFC would be a good school as they have some interesting things in the pipeline from what I have heard on the grapevine.

[Mile_Hi]

I had a fantastic experience flying in Canada. If you are looking to fly in Canada to save money converting back in the UK then these are my views. Converting the CPL back here in the UK was straight forward and to the discretion of the training provider. I think it took 5 hours 7 including test. This made it a financial benefit. The instructor conversion I haven't done but understand it is half the full course. This means you can gain a canadian and JAA for the same price as just a JAA licence. Theory side however you will need to re-do the whole ATPL theory which is much harder than the Canadian equivalent.
IR side you will have to re-do the whole thing to "convert" to a JAA. There is a 5 hour reduction as you already hold a commercial licence. This rule kicked in about this time last year. So don't take the IR in Canada if you are looking to save pennies. Worth doing the ME to as again this conversion is left to the discretion of the training provider. I just took the test with no additional training so that saved a few quid too.

Hour building is obviously cheaper than the UK too. I had a great time flying to various places in Canada and the US. Encountering extreme weather and conditions and all kinds of airports from tiny to huge internationals that you wouldn't be able to go to in the UK.

You do need to fly a bit in europe too to help speed up the RT as the airspace is more congested.

Hope that helps a bit and have a great time.