Uni - Courses and places

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey everyone, . . The time has come where I have to decide which uni I’m gonna go to and what courses I'm going to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. .So, I've heard that Cranfield is the "home of aviation subjects" university wise, so is there anyone who's been there who could bring some light on the uni for me?. .. .Also, what other universities would you all recommend for aviation subjects throughout the UK?. .. .I've been thinking about Aviation Management or something like that, but seems as I’ve never done anything like that before I'd just like to get some views on it (and other closely related subjects) from you guys who've done it.. .. .I aim to become a commercial pilot hence looking for aviation related subjects at uni level. So again, if there's a particular subject that you've done, enjoyed and found it useful in the aviation world I'd be very grateful if you could pass on your experience to me!. .. .Thanks in advance, . .Ian

[jonathang]

In a similar situation to u. Other people I have spoke to say take a course that will make u the most money to pay for the ATPL.. .. .But do a subject that u enjoy trust me on that cause I don't enjoy mine.. .. .JonathanG

[oxford blue]

Just do whatever you want to do and will enjoy. If you enjoy it you will work hard, but it won't seem like work - because it won't be a chore - it'll be fun.. .. .Get a good degree -in any subject. At Oxford, I'd rather take a bloke with a first in classics than a pass degree in physics - because it that shows he (or she) has got the brains.. .. .We can provide the rest.. .. .That said, if you can do maths or physics or computer science, it will be more helpful in becoming a pilot.. .. .But nothing replaces a sharp brain. People who are quick on the uptake. That's what we look for. . . . <small>[ 17 March 2002, 16:54: Message edited by: oxford blue ]</small>

[Flash Heart]

I have been to an open day and interview at cranfield, not a university to go to if you enjoy any kind of a social life, good course though.. . I did Aero Engineering, it comes in quite useful from time to time and i think it demonstrates interest and motivation towards the aviation industry. (Aero engineers get payed alot aswell).. . I would say the best place for aviation related courses is Bristol Uni.. . Hope this is of some use.

[Fast Jet Wannabe]

I'm going to the London Guildhall to do their brand new BSc course in Aviation Management and Operations!. .. .Start in September and can't wait!

[Lucifer]

Flasheart: they may get 'payed' at lot, but they can't spell!. .. .Seriously, myself and others have written a great deal in the past about this topic, and a search wouldn't go amiss.. .. .Summary was that some feel that the knowledge of the industry gained by doing an aviation management/ aero eng degree is beneficial to the extent that they would always choose this over others.. .. .Others including myself believe that where you do it, the class gained etc show a sufficient intelligence (as do the aero-related ones) but also provide such a strong back-up rather than becoming industry-orientated so early that these are more appealing, and the alternative job opportunities available make this compelling as an option.. .. .In essence, unless you are (1) so totally committed and INTERESTED in EVERY aspect taught at the aero management degree, (2) can envisage being an aero engineer as a backup, (3) don't mind narrowing opportunities to some degree then do what you propose (though your holding a degree in aviation will not make you less adequate for non-aviation jobs, but you may be signalling that you won't be with whoever else is emplying you for long, before you move to aviation as soon as you can - if you get my drift), then go down the aviation degree route.. .. .The evidence of people in the industry is a large variety of) increasing degree-equipped people, with a large variety of degrees. To that extent, it is very untrue to say that an aviation-equipped degree person is MORE likely to get a job, as non-aviation people can just as easily demonstrate their enthusiasm for aviation, eg UAS, GAPAN, PPLs, summer jobs, uni gliding clubs, Cadets, etc etc.. .. .You should do what you are good at from school, and interested in. If this involves a mixture of psychology, management and whatever else is included in aviation management, or maths/physics for aero eng, then fine and go for it, but otherwise you could make an error of judgement.. .. .Commercial pilots do not even need a degree, so don't think you need to do aviation degrees to get a job. Money is needed to gain an ATPL if not sponsored, though again, simply going for economics and finance to get into the city jobs will not work. Computer scientists I know have ended up as highly-paid Bank of England economists, and anthropologists as Navy pilots. That diversity should suggest that more than a degree subject is sought as entry criteria.. .. .Good Luck. .Mail with any queries

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey again, . . I just want to say thanks for the replies, all points taken into account.. .. .Cheers. .. .Ian

[Sven Sixtoo]

You're possibly not interested in the mil route, but have you considered which uni's have convenient UAS's? (You can always lie about your intentions for long enough to get some superb flying training and get paid for it!). .. .Although all uni's are associated with one UAS or another, some are much more convenient than others.. .. .For example, St Andrews is an easy bike ride to the airfield (Leuchars).. .. .At the other extreme all the Welsh unis fly out of St Athan (I think), which must be a real pain from Bangor!. .. .If the degree itself is just a peg to hang the fun on, it might be a factor to tip the balance if all else is equal.. .. .Sven

[Lucifer]

But don't simply use a UAS for flying if you have no interest whatsoever in RAF. You will be found out, not enjoy the lifestyle, and be taking a very valuable place from some who may seriously be interested.

[Rough Driver]

You should realise that the UAS's and the RAF are not for everyone. Do you think that you could cope in a military environment? You will be going from an environment of almost ultimate freedom ( university life ) to an arena where there are some strict codes for mannorisms and etiquette, officers mess rules for example.. .. .Also worth noting is which degree you are planning to do. In my experience to get through the flying programe you will need to go to the airfield at least once every two weeks. This would take two days away from your lectures and studies, travailing the day before and flying on the specified day. Because of this you should pick a degree which you enjoy and is less demanding than others.

[Chesty Morgan]

I heard southampton is good for aerospace stuff, it also has a UAS, like Sven says blag a few hours out of them, you'll probably get about 120. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[Chesty Morgan]

RD my old man flew in the RAF for 25 years. SOme of the stories he's told me you wouldn't believe ie Bicycle jousting, Deck Landings, Mess Rugby etc And the beers dead cheap. Couple of friends were in the UAS and they had right old laugh. I'd do it if I wasn't too old.

[Rough Driver]

NoseWheelFirst, I don't understand how you could "blag" 120 hours out of a UAS and certainly not SUAS. By the time you had 120 hours you would have been sponsored and would have to join the RAF. If you decided that you were not going to do this then you would have to pay all their monies back, which is quite alot on top of your 12,000K student loan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

[Trislander]

Hi. .. .I am 18 and in my last year of college, I too have applied to do BSc Av. Management & Ops. at London Guildhall. I still can't decide though whether going to uni for 2 years, getting into debt, then having to work for several years would be more of a setback towards my flying career or not. I really want to get into it as soon as possible. I could instead work for three years starting this year, while building up my hours and starting module 1 (ATPL distance learning).. .. .Does anyone have any opinions on what I should do out of these two routes???. .. .All your help in mostly appreciated.. .. .Cheers, Tri

[Rusty Cessna]

Trislander,. .. .I too am doing the course at LGU. drop me a line and we can have a chat, if you're on MSN, my e-mail is [email protected]. Do you already have a PPL?. .. .Speak soon.. .Rusty.

[Trislander]

Rusty,. .. .My PPL skills test is next week! I am not on MSN so I will email you.. .. .Cheers, Tri

[Fast Jet Wannabe]

Just thought I'd join in the fun since I too am going to the LGU to do the same course!. .. .Tri, mail me too!. .. .FJW.

[Trislander]

Okey Dokey. .. .Tri

[flyingtango]

G'day mate!. .. .From experience I believed an aviation specific degree is a waste of time considering that what airlines are after are an ATPL and flying experience. Having said that, I do believe having a degree is useful but you should do one that will offer job opportunities other than flying. Think of it as a back-up career.

[Jason2000]

Hello...I'm at Cranfield university --- second year student at the moment. The degree is good, but in my opinion, it is probably similar to any good university teaching Aero Engineering. We probably have a few more planes to play around with, and the staff-student ratio is really good in comparison, but on the downside, the university is a pretty boring place since it is full of engineers ! (no other types of degree taught here really). Nearly half the students are military ones and it is very much like a military base at times (with Chinooks landing on the lawn and guns firing, making the ground vibrate like a earthquake). Flying...there is no flying club (although the prospectus tells otherwise), but you can become a member of the OUAS and Oxford-EGTK airport is just up the road. Also, beware that Aero Engineering is not all fun and games...you probably will not see a plane until year 2 --- there are a lot of fundamentals to learn first, and loads of maths to accomodate them. My advice...do a degree in something that you are good at (if it is maths and science, then by all means do Aero), and go to a uni where you think you will enjoy your time

Best of luck !!
Jason

[flyingtango]

Hi, Tri. .Speaking from experience, if I were you, I would do a non-aviation specific degree and do my flying training privately. The reason being, is that this will offer a second career, just in case you don't make it with aviation. Nothing is certain especially with the shaky state of the aviation industry at the moment.. .I've spent 3 years completing a B.Sc (Aviation) with a CPL, but still got no job!. Now I'm in my seond year of an Engineering degree. There's no doubt that being an Airline Pilot is my first choice of a career, but I've have to be practical, hence doing a engineering degree as a back up because engineering jobs are far easier to to get than flying.. .The point I'm trying to make is that in hindsight, I would have done an Engineering deegree as well as flying and not have wasted time with the Aviation degree. You see, all the Ailine wants are ATPL subjects passed and flying hours. A uni degree is great but they don't mind whether it's an Aviation one or other.. .Having said that, you can only study what you like, so if Aviation is the only that fancies you, then go for it.. .. .Good luck mate!

[(David Johnson)]

I have not contributed to PPRuNe for quite some time now, but felt compelled to reply to this thread, and indeed use this thread to try and clear up some issues that I have seen on this subject elseswhere.

More frequently then ever now I have witnessed on PPRuNe the conveying of misguided information concerning courses at A-level and degree level.

The problem resides in people who seem to moot that "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what degree you do."

Much of what Lucifer has stated on this thread is correct, good advice for people who aspire to be pilots and the like.

Below I am going to give my viewpoint, and people can feel free to comment on what I write as it is all purely my opinion.


Firstly I don't entirely agree with "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what A-Levels / degree you do."

I suppose it depends on your viewpoint and future aspirations; whether you like aviation, flying or both. For example - Wannabes should ask themselves the question.

"If I can't become a pilot - what else do I want to do?"

This is a critical question and one that should be addressed before A-Level subjects are chosen. The reason, is that if the individual accepts that maybe he/she may not be a pilot then that person may want to be involved in aviation in some form or another.

For example, the person may want to be an aeronautical engineer. This more commonly requires a degree in aeronautical engineering and obviously the pre-requisite A-Level subjects.

The people on this site who state "just do the subjects you enjoy" are very shortsighted and seem to be leaving everything to chance. I would honestly not recommend "putting all my eggs in one basket" without getting a suitable medical at Gatwick that confirms that you are medically fit to be an airline pilot, and even then I wouldn't.

Lets look at the worst case scenario: You are interested in aviation not just flying, but flying is your dream and number one career. Following the advice of many people on this site you just do the subjects you enjoy and do a degree that the A-Levels subjects that you did allow. You then go for sponsorship or to try and fund yourself, and therefore think it prudent to go to see if you can pass a class 1 medical. Unfortunately, you find out that you have some problem that you never knew you had and subsequently you will not be issued with a class 1 medical. (This is not far fetched as people on this site have found out unfortunately). The result, is that you can no longer be an airline pilot and your degree is redundant in many areas.

Just to clarify that last point. I am NOT saying that the degree in Geography or whatever is worthless, but I am saying that for aviation jobs it may be held in a lower esteem than some of the others.

I don't know how other people were brought up but I was always told that you get what you work for. In order to get to your ultimate career or give yourself the best chances you will have to make sacrifices. It seems to be the current culture to just "do things the easy way." No-one seems to want to make the effort to do the hard subjects at A-Level or at degree level. That is a fact, the perceived hardness of Maths, Physics and Chemistry is one of the primary reasons why there is a shortage of engineers in this country. It is totally true that you will have to work maybe twice as hard as someone doing easier subjects and yes, you may find that you are a grade lower in your results than those people, but quite frankly the world is your oyster if you do those A-Level subjects because they allow access to the degrees that are relevant in so many different types of work. For example, if you did a degree in engineering you are "wanted by everyone" - Hobson Careers Directory 2002.

I make no apologies for seperating A-Level subjects and degree courses in terms of their hardness, that is fact. I suppose in these politically correct times it is wrong to differentiate between them, but people know.

Just to clear up information regarding an aero degree as well. It is hard, very hard indeed. Many times on this site I have seen people say "Don't do aero Eng" - it is too specific. This too is misguided information. On the contrary an aero eng degree will allow you to go into any financial job, aero engineering, automotive engineering, marine engineering, management etc etc
The degrees that ARE restrictive are the so called "easy options" because there are very little job prospects.

When recruiting as aforementioned airlines look for a vast array of qualities, academia is just one of the many. That I understand and agree with. I just feel that misguiding individuals isn't right. All too soon the events of September the 11th seem to have blown over and everyone seems to be putting their eggs into one basket again. Just think before you act, and think about those pilots now that are without work and have nothing to fall back on...this is another factor of course - getting made redundant or a medical problem mid career - you need something to fall back on.

People on PPRuNe often seem to try and justify their own actions in a post....a kind of comfort to themselves. It seems to be selectively forgotten that British Midland in one advertisement I remember seeing stated for A-Levels "Science subjects preferred." It is also annoying (and this has been done in this thread) that people compare a poor degree in say Physics with a good degree in Classics. Whilst the point being made is valid and correct, those people never seem to say that if all things were equal and they had one person with a first in Physics and one with a first in classics, who they would go for.

My advice above isn't taking any sides at all - the underlying message is PREPARE FOR THE WORST, that way you will be ok.

Best Wishes

[rahaney]

I'm a couple of years ahead of you (the thread starter)

and i have to agree with all the people who have

said to do a course that you enjoy instead of one

that you "think" will look better.

I'm just finishing my first year at bristol doing

computer science whilst waiting for BA to start up

their cadet scheme again (any news anyone????).

I looked at aviation type degrees at guidhall and abroad
and felt that its a pretty final subject to go into
i.e. there's no room to do another unrelated job if you havent managed to get into a flying one.
It must be quite hard i think to try and get a job in another part of industry with such a specific degree (apologies if this is not the case).

Myself i think that although i'm not totally enjoying Computer Science in relation
to actually flying (who wouldn't) its my second best.

Just a quick message to

LUCIFER

Any time i check out the threads always you are there defending the raf from hour builders,
now whilst i think that due to funds this is totally true,
i think that nearly everyone registered on this website must have seen it by now.
Just a thought. - not intended to offend - just being objective.