July 03 course to become Jan 04?

[MinimumRest]

I keep hearing different stories from sources both on here and within NATS............

I am meant to be on July 03 course, but recently heard that a number of us (about 15) will have to start in Oct due to high failure rate on a current course. THEN heard that it's more likely to be Jan 04 :eek: and that they are stopping all recruitment with immediate effect.

Recruitment dept. say they don't know anything, and just to wait and see. Anyone know anything else?

MR XxX

[mr.777]

MR,

Where do these rumours come from?!I'm on the Oct 2003 course and am now getting a bit freaked by it all......presumably I'm even lower than you in the pecking order and am thinking Apr2004 now for a start date........which would be fine except I hate my current job and cant hack an extra 7 months,as well as the fact that I am absolutely itching to get on the scopes!
Can someone please enlighten us poor souls who are,apparently,so near yet so far!

P.s. If I dont get shafted,hope to see you in Oct 2003 mate!

[DrKaos]

Sorry to be so blunt, but welcome to the world of ATC.....

As a very old, experienced controller was once heard to say, "Never let the truth stand in the way of a good rumour!"

The only advice that I can offer is wait for something in writing to turn up. Then wait for that to be superceded by further advice in writing (Sorry, that's being unkind). If you have received notice of a course number (or date), then until you get WRITTEN advice saying otherwise, don't listen to rumours.

The Rumour Mill in ATC is a great thing, especially when you hear something about yourself sometimes. Like dates of when TC moves to Swanwick..........(unkind again, sorry!)

All the best.

[stevekingsman]

Hi I too am confused about this.
I have a contact who works at the college and say's that the reason for the backlog is because they are re designing the course. I'm not sure how credible this information is though.

[MinimumRest]

Someone else spoke to recruitment today, they reckon they can't give us any further indication until April....................:*

MR XxX

[250 kts]

A reliable source at the college tells me that the April course is definitely cancelled and the July one is likely to be as well. Reasons are the re-design of the course and also that NATS can't afford another load of students at this time.

[MinimumRest]

How reliable?

MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

Fraid not alpha

I'm supposed to be on the same course as Min Rest and also don't have a clue what's going on.:mad: :confused:

I spoke to someone in recruitment a couple of weeks ago who said that a decision would be made by the end of January, but obviously not.

Until i'm told otherwise i'll still assume i'm on the July '03 course but I won't be surprised if (when?!?) i'm told it's been put back by 6-12 months!! :(

Question is whether I can stick it out in my current job til then!!

FB

[Goidel]

Doesn't sound all that good for me then as I am meant to be starting on the Jan 04 course, but if that is going to be filled up with this years intake does that mean its going to be an even longer wait for me?

Is this a test to see how dedicated you are to being an ATCO, whether you can put your life on hold for 18 months or so till they deem you can start! Doesn't inspire confidence in your future employers does it!!!

[Numpo-Nigit]

I see this is another major achievement in the development of NATS training. Just a few years ago it used to take large amounts of time and effort by management to get recruits to the required level of disillusionment and cynicism so that they "gelled" with their more senior colleagues. Now we are ensuring that they arrive in the correct frame of mind. Well done everybody!!!

[Dances with Boffins]

1. April 03 course is not cancelled. Sorry 250kts, but your source was a tad premature. :=
2. The entire course is being over-hauled which may require a reduced output from the college for a short period [one or two courses] to work through the changes from old to new system. the new course will be shorter, but will focus on training ATCOs for the skills they will actually use. No more Tower ticket for Area controllers. :rolleyes:
3. The large amount of trainees in the system at the moment are not due to high failure rate. The much publicised shortage of ATCOs also means a shortage of instructors both at the college, and at LACC, made worse by last-years shift from West Drayton. Any reduced intake into Area Training will be used to reduce the backlog, and thus improve the chances of subsequent trainees validating. Thus you are better off waiting pre-college, than hanging around forgetting what you have learned half-way through. ;)

Numpo 'fraid I agree, although the lack of timely decisions was not the fault of recruitment, but down to a Mr Cheese Holme. It would have suited everyone's purpose better if April had been cancelled to sort out the mess, but t'was not politically expedient.

[fly bhoy]

Dances with Boffins

the lack of timely decisions was not the fault of recruitment, but down to a Mr Cheese Holme. It would have suited everyone's purpose better if April had been cancelled to sort out the mess, but t'was not politically expedient.

Not politically expedient to cancel the April course but would it be considered such to cancel the July one?!?

You also say that reduced output from the college may be required. Does this mean they're considering cancelling some courses after April? Or are they just going cut back on recruitment and reassign some people to later courses than originally intended (but continue starting courses every 3 months without any cancellations) to reduce class sizes?:confused:

FB

[Dances with Boffins]

Fly Bhoy

Much as I'd love to put your worries to rest, I am unable to answer your [quite proper] question, because at the moment I, and I suspect, management right up to Board level, don't know.

What is known is that there is no way that Area training can shift from the old course to the new without either a]cancelling one AREA intake [which amounts to 80% of each course], or b] reducing the AREA intake over a whole year by about a third, as there are not enough instructors or simulators at the college to run full old and new courses side by side. However LACC is still screaming for more controllers as anyone reading this forum over the last year can attest, so reducing the college output by even one course will result in some very pointed questions being asked at board level.
Someone will have to bite the bullet and make a decision, but at the moment no-one is blinking[remember the three way gunfight in 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly?].:D :* :}

The only ray of sunshine is that it should be sorted by the time you start training, which will improve your chances of making the grade at your final unit . Doesn't make your life at the moment any rosier, but hang tough. NATS really does need ATCOs, and they will continue to do so long after you are safely valid and gazing lovingly at some electric tadpoles. :cool:

[Mr_Grubby]

Boffins.

We have clashed in the past.

But with this thread you have got it right on the nose.
What a sorry state we have got into.

I feel so sorry for all the students now.

Continue to give it your best. You are doing a great job.

All Wannabes, keep applying. It's a great job.

Regards to SH, NW, ST, JH, CS + others, most on Area.

Mr G.

[fly bhoy]

Dances with Boffins

Cheers for clearing some things up. :ok:

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the final decision is. It won't put me off, having to wait an extra 3-6 months, but will just be a bit annoying as i'd kind of got my hopes pinned on starting in July.

I suppose its going to affect someone in the end though so may as well be the July course as any other one!!:sad: At least that way we'll get to start our training on the new (improved?!?!?:confused: ) course!

Cheers again.

FB

[mr.777]

D with B,
As flybhoy says,thanks for clearing up some of the uncertainty.
I too will not be put off by having to wait a bit longer,particularly if it will benefit us in the long run.
While I'm spouting off,can someone tell me at what point in the process you get to choose(if thats the case) between Area and Approach training?I gather there are some common elements in the training course.Or are NATS solely training for Area at the moment.
Once again,help much appreciated,and thank god for this website!

[Dances with Boffins]

Sorry folks, me again.

777 NATS has a continuing need for both airports and area controllers, with the college producing both at a ratio of about 1:4.
The first 3 months of the new course is common to both, then you will be streamed, with Airports candidates doing the Aerodrome rating, and the Area trainees starting radar training. The big difference is that you will know then where your final unit posting will be, and so can prepare your life accordingly, whereas at present you spend your whole college career not knowing whether you are bound for Heathrow or Aberdeen. You will now spend all periods of 'on the job' training at your final unit, so by the time you arrive there, you know where the canteen and toilets are. ;)
The decision about who goes where though will be dependant primarily on company needs. So you basically will have a 1 in 4 chance of airports, if that is where you want to go, but you then stand as much chance of living in London as Scotland. Area mostly end up in Swanwick, but some go to Prestwick [about a fifth].
Best idea is just be prepared for a career in ATC, and leave the details until later. Nearly every ATCO in the world will swear that THEIR discipline is the one to go for, so whichever way you end up going, sit back and enjoy it. :cool:

[MinimumRest]

I already know where the canteen and toilets are at Manchester, do you think this will help me get posted there? ;)

MR XxX

[45 before POL]

Boffins,

Thanks for info. I'm supposed to be starting in Oct. Just have to wait and see which way the coin falls.:confused:

[Jerricho]

If NATS are tossing a coin, I would grab it before it lands........

It'll be the first, last and only bonus you'll get!

;)

[Bern Oulli]

In an attempt to put the record straight, the following is a copy of an email sent today (12/02) to all staff at CATC (hereinafter known as DAT&S) setting out what is happening vis-a-vis recruitment, stopping courses and why. I have to say that it is something some of us have been arguing for for some time, and seems eminently sensible.

There has recently been speculation about our intentions regarding the next few intakes of trainees, and I thought it might be helpful to tell you what's going on. As many of you know, when we stopped shift work here after 11 September, we kept our commitments to those trainees to whom we had already made employment offers. This, coupled with a shortage of area instructors, which has restricted the size of ACS1 and ACS2, has given us a significant backlog of holding trainees - in fact, we now have the equivalent of almost one complete course holding. Given that fact, plus our plan to stop using trainees as ATSAs at Swanwick, and the need to introduce our new course structure starting in 2004, it makes absolute sense to
reduce the number of new trainees coming into the system.

Although the final decision has not yet been made, it is likely that we will drop the course scheduled to start at the beginning of July. It may be that we will also have to reduce intake numbers again later in the year, but we are still working on that, and how best to programme instructor training for the new ACS course. Because of the number of holders we have here, plus the
number of trainees replacing ATSAs at Swanwick, it will not mean a reduction in the number of people undergoing validation training or a slowing down of the delivery of new operational controllers.

Finally, you may be interested to know that due to a combination of the efforts of Recruitment Services, and an apparent change in the labour market, there are currently sufficient successful applicants to fill our needs for the next twelve months or so. This contrasts with the last few years, when we were having to work very hard to get enough people through the door at the start of each course.

Well, there you are then, from the horse's mouth. I shall probably now have to adopt a new nom de guerre, but then again, maybe not.

Sooner or later I shall see some of you here at CATC..oops, DAT&S!

[Goidel]

Bern Oulli

Thanks for the heads up with this, helps clarify things that are in the system and waiting for a definate start date and how long we have to wait to start training.

What I take from this - correct me if I am wrong - is that the July 03 course will be closed to all new starters in order to process those already within the system. It would follow (if no more course reductions take place) that the entire course of new starters due to commence training in July 03 would move to Oct 03, Oct 03 moves to Jan 04 etc, would this make sense.

Once again thanks again.

[Bern Oulli]

Goidel.
To be honest I do not know the details of who is going to be on what course and who will hold for how long. I could ask a few discreet questions, if the info isn't super secret.

[cb9002]

I've emailed the following people about all this. No response yet, but maybe if we all hassle them together they'll sort something out:

Andy Hutchinson (Recruitment Manager): [email protected]

Rob Whitaker (CATC Business Manager)
[email protected]

I realise that's not the best CATC contact, but its the only public one I could find on the net.

The following people might also be good to email:
Chris Gibson-Smith - Chairman
Richard Everitt – Chief Executive Officer
Colin Chisholm – Chief Operating Officer

Let us know what happens!

[cb9002]

Got a response! Good luck for the rest of you too!

cb9002


Hi, your e mail to Rob Whitaker has been passed to me. There may be some changes to intake numbers that may delay people starting, although these have not definately been decided yet.
I am forwarding your e mail to Andy Hutchinson head of recruitment services who may be able to put your mind at rest regarding your October 2003 start date. Looking forward to meeting you when you join the college.

kind regards,

Freddie Harvey
HR DAT&S
NATS HURN
* 7 231 2305
* mail to: [email protected]

[tori chelli]

Dances

I note that new entrants will have an idea of where they're being posted at the end of it all.

I recall that this was the system in place in the late 70's & early 80's when your course number streamed you for Area or Airports;
evens & odds respectively.

So the wheel seems to have turned full circle again over a 20 year period.....how much wasted money and manpower has this 20-year 'experiment' cost I wonder?

TC

[mr.777]

E-mailed Andy [email protected] passed onto Ruth Wallace from Recruitment.
She basically said nothing defininte has been decided yet regarding delayed intake.
Sit tight I guess and watch this space.......unless anyone else has info.

[Carbide Finger]

The most worrying statement is not continuing to use T and Ders as ATSAs. I don't think that LACC could continue as it is at the moment without them.

CB

[Dances with Boffins]

Carbide -
Not a valid argument really. The T & D ATCOs at LACC number about 60 at any time. They need to be trained before they are any use to anyone. Whilst training as assistants, they are not of any real use until they are solo, and after a short period of useful employment, they start training again to do their REAL job. In the meantime they have forgotten a good percentage of what they learned at Hurn.
They would need to be replaced, sure, so that the work gets done, but it would only take half the number of ATSAs to fill the posts, as once trained, they stay doing the job.
Tada! Just saved the company about £750,000, increased the number of ATSA posts for the shrinking ATSA cadre, and improved trainees chances of validation. Even our management can't fail to see the plus side of this one. :=
Oh, and reduced the time taken between starting at the college, and earning ATCO 2 money for subsequent new-starter LACC ATCOs.:D :D :cool:

[Kirstey]

I assume there is still a requirement for controllers and the recruitment hasn't stopped altogether?

[Bern Oulli]

Oh yes indeedy! Just a slight pause to catch the collective breath.

[Dances with Boffins]

S'right. We're just changing the nozzle shape on the Play-Doh machine, and then we'll be back pumpin' out ATCOs just as fast as Berni & Co can teach 'em.:cool:

Anyone Know why the signature thingy has stopped working? :confused:

[Carbide Finger]

Dances,

Like your reasoning, I wish it could be that simple. If there is a company that could get it wrong, then NATS would be my choice.

Currently there is about 6 months of useful ATSA time out of a T&D before their SVC. Once the waiting time for SVCs goes down in the 6 months of no College output there will be a shortfall of ATSAs. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, there is currently a recruitment embargo on all positions except TATCs.

I think we may see sector closures in the not too distant future because of lack of ATSAs. I really hope that NATS will sort things out.

CB

[126.825]

Firstly thanks to the oh so lovely Min Rest (and she is!!), not only are you gorgeous but you gave me a nice heads up on this topic!

I spoke to one of the recruitment guys and the latest is as follows....

the April course has now moved forward by one week to the last week in March. the powers that be are then looking to see how things fit and will go from there.

the official line is that the JULY'03 course is not yet cancelled but numbers may be reduced.

i also heard that recruitment will cease for a couple of months probably when the move from London to the south occurs!

what happens will then be decided late March early April.

i myself am supposed to be on the JUL'03 course but then i guess we will have to wait and see about that.

hope some of its useful.

Crewman

[MinimumRest]

Yeah, and if you get to start in July and I don't you're gonna have to cook for yourself mate!!!

:D :D :D

The apparently 'lovely' MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

Crewman

If we're supposed to be on the Jul 03 course and the lovely MR gets put back, then I think we should ask to be put back as well just to make sure she can cook for both of us!!!!:O :p

FB

[WX Man]

Very off topic, but did you get my email MR? I'm not sure I sent it to the right address.

BTW I spoke to James today- their course starts in Maastricht at the beginning of May as I thought. They've got their exams in a month, and next week is the infamous 'exercise 16' week.

When they get to Maastricht, that's about a month after our course finishes in the sim, so I may be around... on the other hand, I may not!!!!:rolleyes:

[MinimumRest]

Yes hun I did get your e-mail, you know how crap I am at replying!

Will probably try to make it over April time it that's ok, will be sad to miss James tho! Tell him Bobby Big Letter says Hi!

Love to MST.

BTW can I just clarify that no one posting these messages has EVER tasted my cooking. I may be awful.

FB had the oddest dream with you and crewman in it - how's the leg doing, cause it was in plaster in my dream!

crewman DO NOT type a word................

MR XxX :p

[126.825]

you cant post a message telling all the peeps that read this about the dream and not expect me to reply!!!!!

but as i am a gentleman i will honour your request for silence!!

we are way off the mark now about the topic but then it doesn't really matter for the moment does it!

right i'm off, just to let you know "the lovely" min rest, the cooking is a bonus!!!!!! ;)

sweet dreams baby ;)

crewman xxx

[MinimumRest]

crewman you are sooooooooo thoughtful, sparing my blushes :O

Back on topic, has anyone heard anything else, or recieved any replies back from e-mails to Andy Hutchinson? A fully fledged ATCO friend of mine has been down at the college this week, but hasn't heard anything said of it.

Oh, the waiting is killing me.........

MR XxX

[MinimumRest]

Just found out that my referees have been contacted by Recruitment requesting references to be sent back to NATS within 7 days. Maybe July will happen after all eh? Surely they can't be THAT organsied to have sent them out now for October..........................??????? :eek:

MR XxX

[TONY21]

assumuing that our course is still on in july, does anyone know when we will be getting contracts and accomodation info and any other useless/full literature that they deem appropriate to send us.
tony

[MinimumRest]

Just heard from a v. reliable source who's in BOH @ the mo doing sim stuff that July is canx :( :( :(

All recruitment is on hold between Apr - Oct too. I am gutted :sad: Was all set to hand my notice in in June!

Anyway this info came to him pretty much from the horses mouth down @ CATC so I think there's a good chance of it being correct.

Any advances? I'll post any further info as I get it.

A very sad MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

I was contacted by recruitment on tuesday last week to ask if it was okay to contact my work for a reference. I thought it was looking fairly promising that July would be going ahead after all, so I said yes. If you read the first section of the link below then it suggests otherwise, however.

Frequently Asked Questions (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/radar2001/resources/NATS_FAQ.pdf). (Cheers Vector Line!!;) )

I presume, MR, if your source is telling you that then it must be pretty accurate.:(

Great timing as I told my work last week that I'd probably be leaving in a couple of months!!! They're going to love me!

FB

[weselfluren]

Recruitment stopped as of April - October? Does this mean that us poor lot who have only "just" sat the 2nd stage interviews in February, are not going to get a provisional offer, no matter how well we did?
:( :( :(
This would explain the delay in the reply from HR/Recruitment then.................. (unless the "no news = good news" adage really is true when it comes to NATS??):confused:

[Kirstey]

By my understanding...

New recruitment is on hold until July/August. Bournemouth courses are 'full' until July 04. I assume if you are already past the 1st interview stage the process will continue.

As an upside to the huge delays they are still some 250 ATCOs short and courses when restructured will all me 12 months instead of 18 months!

[MinimumRest]

Recruitment is moving premises from London down to Southampton, which is why there will be no new recruitment from July through to maybe Sept/Oct, just while they get themselves sorted and settled in.

MR XxX

[rodan]

As an upside to the huge delays they are still some 250 ATCOs short and courses when restructured will all me 12 months instead of 18 months!

Not so much of an up-side, to be honest. The old course structure had everyone doing an aerodrome course before continuing on to area (the majority). The tower rating you got as a result, although probably never used if you were successful, was a handy fall-back if you didn't make the grade.

Now all most folk will do is area training and, if they fail, it's probably the end of the line for them, atc-wise.

[MinimumRest]

Latest from recruitment is that they will make a decision ''this week or next.........''

MR XxX

[boney m]

Am on Oct 03 course. Has anyone from that course heard anything? Reading this was the first i'd heard. Doesn't sound too good tough.:confused:

[alpha16]

MR, what do you mean 'make a decision'? :eek:

Was due to sit 2nd stage interview a few weeks ago and got a LETTER :hmm: (they could have at least called) two days beforehand to say it had been cancelled and they hoped to re-arrange for the end of April.

Emailed HR this week and got a shrift response saying they were in the process of trying to arrange new dates and would be in touch.

As well as re-jigging the courses they should flippin well sort out the recruitment process in general. Considering they demand such a high level of work and commitment from applicants, they don't half muck us around! :rolleyes:

Something else I've noticed is that there's a fair amount of folks out there who failed to get into NATS but went on and did really well at Eurocontrol. Surely that's an indication that the recruitment process needs looked at. :confused:

Anyway, enough of my moaning!! :O Best of luck to all applicants and those lucky ducks on the college waiting list!! Maybe see you in oooo 5 years time!! :rolleyes:

A16

[Down Ampney]

Alpha 16
With your attitude don't hold your breath!

[granny smith]

Hey DA, leave the kid alone!!

Actually Alpha 16's attitude is exactly the same as most ATCOs - hardened cynicism is normal and should be part of the rating course! That said, if I was Alpha 16 I might want to keep it in check whilst a student and trainee.

Talking of training, you may be justifiably unimpressed at the delays to the start of your ATCO career but at least take comfort that you are going to recieve arguably the best ATC training to be had anywhere in the world.

[weselfluren]

No, A16 is more than right. HR do not seem to realise/care that people have other things going on in their lives other than applying to become an ATCO in NATS. By my reckoning, the shortest possible time it will take for me to complete recruitment will be 2 and a half years - sorry, but I must be damn keen to muck myself, the girlfriend, the mortgage and the pet goldfish :} around for that long on the off chance I may land a fantastic job.
A16 is right. People will not consider NATS if they knew about how long the actual application process will take and go to Eurocontrol. :ooh: As in any other field, if you want the best people to join your organisation, you have to do everything you can to make them feel wanted. Not keep them dangling with vague answers (if you get one - lucky swine A16, they actually replied to you!):eek:
HR, sort it out, please!!!!
:ok:

[Goidel]

Weselfluren,

I know exactly what you mean about the HR. Been accepted on the course, been for the medical, done the security questionaires etc etc, but its the life on hold thing that I can't accept no more. Meant to be starting on a course that no-one can tell me if it is running or not or how much longer I could be hanging around for.

As a result someone has just offered me another job which I think I will be taking and withdrawing. Seems a shame because I really wanted to go into the service, but just for ineffectivity of the recruitment system they have lost someone that they had felt could do the job, in a time when they are desperately short of controllers!

[weselfluren]

Goidel,

am truly sorry to hear that you have decided not to go through with a career path with NATS. I myself am not quite at the "almost in" stage, and have yet to sit my 2nd technical interview (had a near miss apparently.....:hmm: )
I must say that being a trusting person, once (or should I say if - best not to tempt fate) I am given a start date, I shall be prepared to wait - as that's part of the whole process, or so I suspect:8 My main worry is that as a "middle aged applicant" in the mid twenties, I'll be too old to start my course by the time I'm allocated one!! All I'll say about HR, is that they are a really poor advertisement for the whole organisation (if ATCO's couldn't give pilots a direct answer, then what would happen:oh: ??). Eurocontrol do come across as a little more organised, wanting to recruit you (supply and demand thing):D and able to give you an outline of the whole process - with a believable timetable to boot. If I'm still left in a cloud of uncertainty in 6 months time, then my application will be going there, despite the fact I'll know there's no chance of Approach or Aerodrome control.:{ Why is it that we never hear of any Eurocontrol applicants having similar problems with that process? Don't forget, there's a language barrier, slightly bigger logistical distance for you to physically cross for interview (and for that all-important letter to arrive:O ), but they still seem to be more efficient.
NATS HR will be in serious trouble soon, as people won't wait forever, and then they'll face the shortages of the early-mid 90's again. I for one am not put off from ATC, but will be more than happy once I pass through this particular loop :ok: .

Best of luck to all applicants, stick it out, as from what I've seen and hear it really is a job worth waiting for :E !

[Down Ampney]

A16 and other hopefuls
I take the point about the courtesy of giving reasonable notice when things change. That could be done better. NATS is not unique in this, however.
You seem to think that because you have done a lot of hard work for the interviews etc you are owed something. That is not the case. I am sure you realise that many who do an equal amount of work, or more, will not be selected. That might be the case for you, so prepare yourself for disappointment if it happens. All the same, good luck in your endeavours.
NATS is not obliged to recruit to the convenience of those who might apply. Similarly you are all free agents and if you chose to drop your interest and go elsewhere that is your choice. NATS will obviously lose some able recruits that way, but that is in the nature of recruitment - for any organisation.
I would like to see recruitment handled locally for the big units. It would probably overcome some of the shortcomings that have irritated you. Recruits would know where they were going from the outset, have the interviews on site, and get a more accurate idea of timescales etc. Similarly the units, like Swanwick, would have an early sight of who they are getting and take an active interest in their recruits' training and development right from the start. Don't know if it will ever happen though!

[alpha16]

You seem to think that because you have done a lot of hard work for the interviews etc you are owed something.
Your wrong DA. We (and I think I can speak for all wannabes) do not feel we are 'owed' anything other than to be treated with efficiency and professionalism.
NATS has high expectations from it's applicants so why shouldn't we therefore, expect the same level of service from them?

That is not the case. I am sure you realise that many who do an equal amount of work, or more, will not be selected. That might be the case for you, so prepare yourself for disappointment if it happens
We might be wannabes but there's no need to be patronising. :ugh:

Similarly you are all free agents and if you chose to drop your interest and go elsewhere that is your choice.
Nice attitude... do you work in recruitment DA? ;)

Surely if NATS are serious about resolving their controller shortage problem then they must acknowledge and appreciate that a good number of the candidates their interviewers knock back are in fact, up to the job as they go on to suceed elsewhere.

weselfluren - just watch out, Eurocontrol have an age limit of 25. As in, if your 25, your too old. They accept people up to the age of 27 if you have aviation experience.

A16

:\

[weselfluren]

Well said A16!!:ok:

I cannot agree more - why should an applicant owe a company anything?? Next thing we'll be told by others that we ought to pay NATS for the privilage of working for them:O (I've heard it's a great job but that just takes the p:} ss!)

As for the Eurocontrol age limits, well let's just say I've got a couple of years left to go before that door shuts - and if NATS can't get into gear, then I'll make the application prior to hitting that particular barrier. Don't want to upset too many HR staff and leave clues to my actual identity...... :cool:
Cheers for the reminder though!!:D

One question that has not yet arisen - did NATS have these problems before the Public/Private partnership?? Maybe the organisation has become a little rudderless since.......

Also, us applicants are entitled to our views as it affects us!!:ooh:

Best of luck to all those embarking on (or trying too) a career in ATC, and a big thank you to all those positive ATCO's out there who give us your time and knowledge.
You are our best source of info and our biggest encouragement.:ok:and a big thank you to all those positive ATCO's out there who give us your time and knowledge.

[mr.777]

boney m and all on oct 03 course,

just had references sent out to appropriate people for this course start date......whether this means it's a go ahead or not,God only knows.
As someone who's been accepted on this course and is pushing the wrong side of 30 fairly rapidly,I sympathise with the comments made on this topic by other wannabees.All we want is answers.....if a company can be held responsible for controlling the UK's airspace I'm sure they could give a simple answer to a question that is bothering many people.
Personally I'm sticking it out as it's my life ambition to get in that tower at EGLL.........but NATS......PATIENCE IS WEARING THIN!!!

[ATCO Two]

It's my life's ambition to get OUT of that tower at EGLL!

[PPRuNe Radar]

Well, I think our Wannabes have a valid and relevant point. It does take an unreasonable amount of time between first applying for the job and actually starting on a course.

With respect to all those in process who I am sure give their best and are dedicated, why is it taking so long ??

If it's down to resource in the HR side, then NATS needs to address that.

After all, these young guys and girls are our future. We need them (like yesterday) to help us fill up the shortfall so that we can reach operational strength and that's not even thinking about the retirement bulges which are coming up shortly. Plus all our future early retirement plans rely on the people being there to replace us ;)

If it's down to the actual tests themselves, then why can't we concentrate the testing process into a shorter time ? Many airline type selection rounds take place over a couple of days. Day 1 weeds out some people (like our phase 1) and then day 2 is used to select those who get offered the jobs. Follow that up with a medical and hey presto, a candidate for the College in a couple of days. OK, there is now probably a delay in getting to start at the College, but at least candidates then know there is only that time period to hang on and they can relax a bit.

Either way, I don't think that the organisation is doing itself, or the young (and some not so young) people any favours. And we do lose people because of this process ... either because they can't hang on forever ... or they go elsewhere which can process them in a reasonable timescale.

To all those trying, keep up the hard work and the dedication. What's for you won't go by you !!!

[Goidel]

Pprune Radar

Personally the problem was not with the amount of time taken over testing, do expect a couple of months between application and second interview and a job offer. What got to me was the timespan of over a year between job offer and the ability to start training (what other job would you expect that sort of time lag?) and the expectation to put your life on hold for that period.

Think that I was in the same position as Mr 777 in the regard that I did really want to become part of the organisation, but I am on a later course and my patience just got too thin - so I accepted another job.

Just like to respond to Down Ampney's post in that I didn't think that NATS "owed" me anything. I was honored to get offered a place and the amount of work that I did before an interview was just the same as doing work to go for any job, research into the company etc. The only thing that you could say you are owed is a bit of common courtesy and a department that tells you a definate answer as to what is going to happen to your carear. Not just fob you off and not be able to give you any answers and make you feel like your bothering them.

[weselfluren]

Goidel,
hear hear!

The only thing that you could say you are owed is a bit of common courtesy and a department that tells you a definate answer as to what is going to happen to your carear. Not just fob you off and not be able to give you any answers and make you feel like your bothering them.

Attitudes, the way information is distributed (email/phone/letter), the lack of information and the perceived lack of direction from above all need to be looked at. Again, I agree with mr.777 - that Patience is wearing thin, and this is with people who have gone past the wannabe (name says it all:D ) stage and have been offered places on a course - not wasters or no hopers. If you are going to discourage others, "because you can", then that doesn't send a good image of nats at all. I just hope that these views are getting through to the policy makers, as they can affect the process. Doubt it's from lack of effort from HR - they probably know as little as we do!:(

Now I know why the ATCO at stage one told us about pprune!:ok:


To those who seem to think that we should not expect anything from NATS - DA, you are so popular with that remark!;)

You seem to think that because you have done a lot of hard work for the interviews etc you are owed something. That is not the case. I am sure you realise that many who do an equal amount of work, or more, will not be selected. That might be the case for you, so prepare yourself for disappointment if it happens.

What world do you live in? Obviously we will only succeed if we make the grade. If we do, and prior to that, we can expect to recieve the full attention of the organisation. After all, we are the future (well said Pprune Radar) and the golden rule in HR (not a Brentism) is that "the most valuable resource, is your human resource".:ok: This process is proving quite a rollercoaster, for all involved (that includes the girlfriend and the goldfish), and apparently not caring doesn't help :ouch: .

Afterall, I like to think I'm human.........:}

[Phantom99]

Hi,

I have been watching this thread with interest.

I would just like to stay not to give up on the application, despite any problems, howsoever caused.

I applied in Mid 2001, sat my first tests just before Sept 11th 2001, had a "Near Miss" for technical, had problems with the medical over colour perception, had to wait a long time for an offer but have just had my first week as a Trainee.

Most of the people on my course have had "issues" along the way, but it certainly makes us even more determined to do well.

[boney m]

777. Am also heading for 30. If all goes as planned will be starting on Oct still in my 20's. If Jan 04 then will be over the hill. Hope we don't all die waiting!:D

[MinimumRest]

Know what you mean about ''die waiting'', I'm worried that I'll be drawing my pension before I've paid into it at this rate.

Well, when I started the topic I never expected this response, I must say, just some answers really (which I still haven't got, by all accounts!) But is IS good to hear that I'm not the only one getting a tad frustrated by it all. I don't necessarily think that the current situation is a reflection on either NATS or it's HR department, but that we are unfortunate enough to be affected due to the seemingly bad timing of our applications.

Hope this helps to keep some of you positive.

Actually, I almost even convinced myself..................;)

MR XxX

Hey FB, how's your boss taking it??

[boney m]

Chin up chick! Atleast we're one of the lucky ******s who've got in. It could be worse....mmmm. Anyway one day we'll get to the promised land. I almost sound convincing, well to my self anyway.;)

[fly bhoy]

Hey MR

My boss is taking it quite well actually (in truth I think he's glad that there's light at the end of the tunnel for him as well!!!! i.e. he can't wait to get rid of me!!!) although he got very upset that I still got my annual salary increase despite the fact i've told them i'm leaving!!

Just to explain to anyone who might be interested (probably no-one!!!:D ) about three weeks ago I got a phone call from HR asking if it was ok now to contact my current employers. I asked if they could put it off for a few days as I hadn't actually told my current employers:uhoh: :O. Anyway, I went into work the next day and proceeded to tell everyone I was leaving (with a huge smile on my face I have to admit) only to find out about 10 minutes later from an as yet unconfirmed rumour on pprune that the course is 99% certain to be cancelled!!

I was not exactly amused, but I get the impression that that's nowhere near what my boss was thinking at the time!!:D :rolleyes: :D

Since then I think he's just resigned himself to the inevitable, but I seem to be getting all the cr@ppy jobs going now!! Can't think why;) . Only positive thing is they can't exactly sack me and I haven't actually handed in my notice yet, just informed them I will be leaving at some point, so i'm fine to carry on in this hell-hole...ermm...company, I mean, until I start at CATC.

It would be a weight off my mind if they could let me know for definite but as I've said before, its a career I really want to have. So if it means waiting an extra 3 or 6 months, then hard as it may be to keep doing the mundane 9-5, and as much as my boss'll get more and more annoyed by my extreme apathy to the work I do at the minute, i'll do it.

Anyway, on to more important matters, MR, when are we all going to get together to get drunk?!?:D ;) :D

FB

[WX Man]

Why is it that we never hear of any Eurocontrol applicants having similar problems with that process?

... because this problem is not present. Eurocontrol throughput about 60 people a month for testing and about 12 a month for interview to supply about 40 students a year to IANS in Luxembourg. The longest delay I have heard of to start in Luxembourg is about 6 months (medicals permitting).

[von]

Well folks it looks to be official. Received a letter today saying that July has been cancelled and I'm on the Oct course which will also have a reduced intake. Pretty frustrating as I've been psyched up for months now but what can you do? :confused:

Was quite looking forward to spending the summer in Bournemouth but it looks like the team bonding/drinking will have to wait. Ach well, hope the rest of you are coping ok.

[MinimumRest]

Hey Von, I'm your coursemate - also heard today I'm on the Oct course. Poor old FB and crewman have been shunted back to Jan! (Don't worry lads, I'll leave you some frozen home-made meals in BOH!) And, FB, know what you mean about cr@p jobs, I have a whole summer season to work now!!!!!! :eek:

Anyway else find out their fate?

MR XxX

PS WX Man I texted you on your Lux mobile last week as I have a new mobile number, if you didnt get it can you mail me your current mobile number? Cheers hun :p

[fly bhoy]

Hey all.

I have indeed been shunted onto the January 04 course. Its not the best news I've had as I was also looking forward to starting, but at least I know for definite now and can start planning for January.

Looking on the bright side, it does mean the course will be shorter (barring any recourses of course!!!:D ) so although we'll be starting later, we should still hope to leave the college at roughly the same time as we would've done had we started on the old course in July. And it means the course has been restructured, revamped and is tailor made for our needs, so all in all, its not too bad.

However, I do sympathise with people who have quit jobs etc in the assumption that they would have a couple of months off prior to starting in July as it now means they'll be left in the lurch come the start of July.

Anyone else know if they'll be starting in January??

FB

ps MR, I still think you should ask to be put on the January course as well cos frozen meals are no substitute for the real thing!!:D :p

[cb9002]

People! Here's one way to deal - I got NATS to put me off for another six months, which I'll spend bumming and working casual jobs in Australia after I leave the USA. Avoids all the uncertainty (hopefully).

MR, this is perfect! Means I'll be able to eat your meals AND copy off your notes!

cb9002

[Route Papa 45]

Well guys i admire your persistence! It is that sort of attitude that will get you through any future setbacks (there might be the odd one or two!) and it is exactly that sort of character NATS needs. I hate to say it but the organisation at CATC is often on a par with what you are putting up with now so at least this is good preparation:rolleyes:

Keep looking out for each other at college and you'll be pushin' the planes in no time leaving the whole sorry application process behind you!

Best of luck to all of you, i promise it is all worth it!!!

RP45

[PPRuNe Radar]

And once that nightmare is over ...... you get grumpy old guys like me at the units to deal with ;)

[weselfluren]

How long do these frozen meals last for?
Looks like it'll be a long, hard ride for us wannabes.....:rolleyes:
Whilst on the subject - does this mean that for those not yet "processed", the ealiest we can realistically hope for is a summer 2004 start?? HR/Nats in general don't like giving out information......

The Oz idea does sound good, although I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to put you on the "next available" course, just as you've got to kakadu, tahiti etc. Enjoy it, it's well worth the round trip. Don't think they'll let in the Goldfish though (or girlfriend - been too many times already......):O

[WX Man]

Hey MR,

I will send you a SMS from my new (well, not so new now) Dutch mobile, but I doubt whether you'll be able to SMS be back. Most people back home have problems doing so. Gremlins in the UK mobile phone system I think.

If you still want to come and visit, you are most welcome. RYR are flying from EGSS to EHBK from the beginning of next month, I think they have a special on where you can get singles for £9, plus the usual £400 government royalties (or whatever Mr Brown has decreed).

Alternatively, you could go EGCC to EBBR (and possibly fly through the Delta sector... way hay!)

[Vickybiccy]

I'm a newbie here, but I have been lurking!

I am supposed to be on the July 03 course as well, but was motivated to register as I haven't heard anything yet!

Basically getting the job was a COMPLETE surprise. I have always wanted to do it and applied thinking I would regret it if I didn't, even if I didn't get through.

Anyhow, I am on the course, despite the man at LATCC who told me that I wasn't clued up enough to get through... I would be rude about him...but I'm sure some of you ATCOs know him.....

I haven't exactly made the best start to my new career, I was 2 hours late for my medical, due to my flight arriving about 3 hours late into LHR and having to help an old lady phone her son that she couldn't find...anyway, I digress!

I don't think I am as enthusiastic about this job as some of you lot. Please don't beat me down about this, I know I am very lucky to have got the job. I can't seem to get excited about the idea about living in Bournemouth. Ah well.

I had to have an extra eye test at my optician which may be why things may be delayed. But he said he didn't think there would be a problem, we shall see....

Well, I shall let you know if I hear anything.

[Barnaby the Bear]

You might have to re think going to Aus for a while. Apparently they are considering closing the doors to Aus for a while due to SARs. .....Skegness is nice this time of year.

Good luck to all that embark on the long journey towards the yellow ticket. Its a great job.

Those of you not excited about Bournemouth. Well I am fairly sure you will change your mind. It is not just deep heat and blue rinse. It is a great town with a good night life.:}

[granny smith]

Glad to hear things seem to be moving forward even if somewhat slower than people would like. I have a couple of comments:

Don't blame NATS Recruitment Section for the delays. Just like the rest of us they only do what they're told. The decisions that have effected course start dates have been made elsewhere and, knowing NATS, were probably made at the last moment.

Regarding the negative impressions left by Down Ampney's posts, please accept my apologies. As I hope you'll know by now, DA's attitude is not indicative of most working ATCOs. The majority of us recognise that we desperately need new controllers and that this is not the way to encourage the right calibre of people to come and work in the profession. I am assuming from his location that he works at Swanwick so that may explain some of the negativity and cynicism. However it does not excuse it.

Enjoy CATC.

[MinimumRest]

Weselfluren - Am thinking of publishing a cookbook during the time I'm waiting to start @ CATC, hate to think of you all starving.

WX Man - Cheers, will look forward to receiving your text, tell me, can I get the train from EBBR and if so, how long does it take and how much please? When are you home again so we can have a proper vocal catch up?

Fly Bhoy - Chin up mate, promise I'll get down to see you sometime soon to drown your sorrows!

Everyone else - I personally can't wait to move to Bournemouth, keep hearing how fab it is from pilots who've done ground school down there, as well as from ATCO's who look back on their time there with fond memories :yuk: (That was the closest one I could get to portray getting drunk....)

But, seriously, I can't wait to get training, although I made friends with Fly Bhoy and Crewman so we could all share digs down there, and they've been moved to Jan 04 :( Any new friends starting October would be greatly appreciated!

MR XxX

[von]

Well after a couple of false starts I'll be on the Oct course too. Already got a couple of friends who moved to Bournemouth last year and they're really enjoying the place so I'm not worried on that front.

MR - I'm pretty sure I'll be looking for my own flat seeing as I'm pushing 30 and have done my fair share of communal living in the last ten years (oh for a fridge of one's own!). Still, you're all welcome to come round for dinner (there's at least one guy who can cook for himself out here).

Anyone else out there who'll be joining MR and myself?

[MinimumRest]

Oh goody, someone else with culinary skills - that takes the pressure off..........

Know what you mean tho, I've never lived in a shared house in my life and find the idea pretty daunting, especially after having my own place for a number of years. But then I never went to uni so I've missed out on all the 'joys' of communal living, and won't knock it too much till I've tried it!

MR XxX

[mr.777]

MR/Von et al,

As far as I know I'm STILL on the Oct 2003 course,although judging by whats been siad so far I'm waiting for NATS to tell me I've been pushed back too....I feel a call to recruitment and some gentle harrassment coming on tomorrow morning.
Anyway,assuming I am still going to sunny Bournemouth,more than happy to share.I too am rotating rapidly towards 30,but as I've already got a whopping mortgage to pay,sharing seems sensible I reckon (much cheaper if nothing else).
To all those who got bumped off July's course,I feel for you guys but hang in there...it will all be worth it in the end!:D
777

[PPRuNe Radar]

as well as from ATCO's who look back on their time there with fond memories

Ah ... fond memories indeed......

Women - http://bffc.net/icons2/dilemma.gif

Study -http://bffc.net/icons2/beach.gif

The Morning after the night before - http://bffc.net/icons2/sick.gif

College Instructors - http://bffc.net/icons2/worthy.gif

Nights out - http://bffc.net/icons2/band.gif

Clubbing - http://bffc.net/icons2/clapbounce.gif

Pub lunches - http://bffc.net/icons2/burger.gif

Drinking in moderation - http://bffc.net/icons2/serve.gif


Hardly seems like a month since I was last there !!!!

[The Fat Controller]

Some things obviously never change !
Applied December 1983,
Started at CATC April 1986.

[45 before POL]

I've been reading this thread with interest,

I'm also supposed to be on the Oct03 course. If the Jul03 course is canx and moved to Oct03 then I guess its just a matter of time before i'm told to not turn up until Jan04:sad:

All those worrried about reaching the wrong side of 30 don't worry as I passed it many moons ago...Just hope the delays don't mean I will be celebrating a 40th:}

At the moment on the Oct course ,will keep you posted on the outcome... a chat with HR I think is needed.

[MinimumRest]

The Fat Controller has made me feel slightly about my 'apply July 2001 start (all being well) October 2003' position.

Just found out I'm gonna be staying in Bournemouth overnight on Saturday 17th May, courtesy of my current employer :ok: Any of you lucky enough to already be at the college fancy showing me around the decent bars??? :p

MR XxX

[WX Man]

Better still, right... let's organise a Grand P*ss Up in Bournmouth some time. I'll see if any other MUAC students want in. I suspect they all value their livers too much, however as someone whose name was entered on the liver donor's register at the age of 18, I'll definately be up for it (not on the 17th May though).

Might be time to start a 'PPRuNe bashes' thread for this one?

[250 kts]

Further bad news. I understand that NATS is considering buying some of the training system that Eurocontrol uses. This will require the college instructors to learn the new system which may require two courses in 2004 to be cancelled as well whilst that training is carried out.

On a plus side they reckon this will increase the overall success rate to validation. A case of swings and roundabouts if ever I saw one.

[WX Man]

I don't see why that's a bad thing. As someone who has very recently finished the course in Luxembourg I can say that the theoretical part of the training is top-notch.

The practical side of the training I think they are in the process of tweaking. I think Maastricht's Training Section now have a lot more input into the development of the students training in Luxembourg.

[MinimumRest]

Any idea which 2004 courses are likely to be pulled?

MR XxX

[250 kts]

I wasn't suggesting that the purchase of the package from Europe was a bad thing, just that it was likely to lead to even more delay for those who are waiting to start.

MR, No I don't.
XxX

[fly bhoy]

Knowing my luck its undoubtedly going to be the Jan 04!!!:confused: :( :confused:

FB

[MinimumRest]

Poor FB!!! :( A sad chemist FOREVER!!! :{

I still think you should come and get a bar job down in Bournemouth and be a kept man on my trainee ATCO salary. You supply the alcohol, I'll cook. And you can wash up. How's that?

crewman phoned from his workin hol in the South of France - didn't have the heart to tell him some 04 courses may be canx, think the shock would kill him :uhoh:

MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

MR

Is that "sad"-unhappy or "sad"-pathetic?!?:) :confused: :)

And it seems to me that I'd be putting a lot more into our relationship than you (both supplying the alcohol and washing the dishes:hmm: ) so I'd be looking for a lot more on the side, so to speak!!!;) :D ;)

Besides, with the amount I drink I think I'd be likely to last maybe a week in any bar job before their profits go right down the drain!!!

Anyway, I hope that any cancellations in '04 would have been planned for and thats why they've stopped recruitment just now...to allow for a gap in the number of people waiting so as to train the trainers on this new equipment. They surely wouldn't reschedule us onto the Jan '04 course to then reschedule us again nearer the time, would they?!? I think that would p!ss a lot of people off!!:* :ouch:

FB

[MinimumRest]

Why, sad ''unhappy'' of course! ;)

I presume what you're getting at 'on the side' is that you'd like to copy my notes too??? :p

I thought you were getting a pretty good deal myself...........

MR XxX

[45 before POL]

Just got letter this morning with the bad news that my Oct03 course is reduced in numbers and re-scheduled. Not for Jan04 as I expected, but end Mar04!!!!!:mad:
If they are considering canx any courses in 04 I too hope they have accounted for those who have been messed around or they will find people looking at other options.

Anyone know the contact for Navcanada?:sad:

[fly bhoy]

Ahhhh MR...such a typical female response there.

Just cos I get my food cooked, doesn't mean i'd be getting a good deal!!! After all, I could get that at burger king!!!!;) :) As for copying your notes.....is that all thats on offer?!?!?:p

45 before POL, I thought that would happen. I presume that everyone who was meant to be on the Oct course will be put back to Mar '04, but i'm hoping that the courses to be canx will be the Jul and Oct '04 ones, and not earlier. I hope that what they'll do is get everyone who's waiting right now started and then do the instructor training, and thats why recrutiment has been stopped for a few months, to provide the necessary gap.:confused: :suspect:

FB

[MinimumRest]

FB, I'm SO embarrassed! Ok, you know me too well to believe that I'd blush OR be embarrassed :p but clearly you think I'm a typical female?! :( What typical female would offer to keep you for three months, eh!?

Sadly I can't say I'm surprised at your letter 45, hope you're not too down about it. Oh, and it's www.navcanada.ca

MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

MR

I'm sure I could embarrass you if I tried, but I know you're not a typical female though!! I think the only other person who would offer to put me up for any length of time is my mum....and thats only cos she'd feel obliged to!!!;) :O

Seriously though, for anyone else who's going to be on the course with MR in Oct '03, she's an absolutely lovely young lady (who can cook apparently!!!:cool: ) so consider yourselves lucky!!:{

Has anyone else heard any news about anyone starting in Jan '04?? Assuming its not canx of course!!!

FB

[MinimumRest]

Now you're just taking the p!$$ FB!

Although, it has to be said, I can cook......

MR XxX

[fly bhoy]

I was being serious!!!

I don't know...you try to pay someone a compliment and this is the thanks I get!!:( :oh:

FB

[MinimumRest]

Just a thought..............

When the recruitment/training dept. get back on their feet, and the back log of trainees is cleared, I presume NATS will still be short of ATCO's, if not more so than now? What with retirements, folk leaving, etc combined with a heavily reduced intake at the CATC, over what's now looking like being a two year period since new info was brought to light by 250kts.

My question is this - will future ATCO recruitment be at the same rate as previously (four courses per year) or will it be upped to cope with the demand? It seems that, if it is done at the same rate, the shortage will never be overcome but, if a higher number of courses are undertaken there may be a serious problem with training resources, etc.

Any thoughts?

MR XxX

Oh, FB, of course I accept your compliment, being the 'lovely young lady' that I apparently am ;)

[boney m]

Calling mr777 and all on Oct 03 course. Got confirmation from NATS today telling me that i have been put onto March 04 course. Guess that's no surprise to any of you out there.:(

[weselfluren]

March 04? Does that mean us "wannabes" can expect to be waiting for at least a year - assuming success in the 2nd round interviews after a recent "near miss".:O
Oh well, at least that leaves the prospect of a summer (or probably autumn/winter at this rate!) on the sandy beaches of Bournemouth!:} Let's hope that none of us are ready for the "retirement castle" accomadation by the time we do descend on Bournemouth!:ok:

[Goidel]

Weselfluren

Does that mean us "wannabes" can expect to be waiting for at least a year

Even before all this reorganisation took place there appears to have been at least a 14 month lay over between the second interview and the commencement of the course. Not sure how this is all going to change, perhaps longer??!

[MinimumRest]

Sorry to hear that boney m :( BTW I PMed you a while back, did you get it?

I know the knock on effect of all this is a nightmare for all concerned, but keep smiling :D , it will all be worth it, eventually!

MR XxX

[boney m]

MR, thanx for empathising. No didn't get anything from you. It will be 2 years from the date I initially applied that I now am able to start. I hope it doesn't get longer.:ok:

[MinimumRest]

Know what you mean, mine will be best part of 2 1/2 years :( But we'll get there in the end eh? :p

PMed you again so check it now

MR XxX

[Dances with Boffins]

Some answers.

Please note, not as many as I, or you, would like, but the problem is a lack of decisions being made in NATS at a very high level. Here goes anyway.

Goidel/Wes

The delay between interview and course start depends purely on how many recruits are waiting. NATS has a fixed entry standard, and thus sometimes there are only a few awaiting courses, and so the wait is short. The College can only cope with a maximum course size of 36, and so divide the number of people awaiting a start by 36, and multiply by 3 months and you get the current delay. Cancelling intakes gives NATS a larger holding 'pool', and so the delay will be longer for the next couple of years. Sorry. :(

Minimum

There is a fair to middling chance that July will not be the only intake that doesn't happen, or is reduced to single figures. July 04 should see the NATS intake return to 36 per course, 4 courses per year. That date should see the start of the 'non-Aerodrome Rating' based Area Course, so be prepared all ye who are currently awaiting a start date, it may be over a year away. DO NOT HAND IN YOUR NOTICE YET! :*

45

NavCanada will make you pay for your upkeep during training. Check them out via Google.

I know this sucks, and you all feel extremely pi**ed at NATS. If any or all of you take a punt at Eurocontrol, I would not be surprised. There is a valid reason for all this chopping of intakes etc, which I cannot really go into here. Don't be too hard on th people at recruitment, it's not them who are holding up teh decision process. They are kept as ill-informed as you all are. The upside is that the new course which you will all recieve will be shorter, and more focussed on what you need to do the job. That is, however, of little comfort to you all now, and for that I am truly sorry. [Well no-one else in the company seems to be apologising]

If you want to get started anyway, go to
http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/publicationdetails.asp?id=222
which is the fabled MATS Part 1, the bible of all things ATC. Learn the contents of this document, and you are well ahead of the game before you ever see Bournemouth.

For those of you who still feel able to hang on until NATS opens the gates, I'll see you when you hit the coast. For those of you who are so hacked off you feel you should bail-out now, don't lose sight of what you want to do. Keep trying the 'other' ATC providers, and good luck. It's a great game. :cool:

[fly bhoy]

Dances

I was trying to send you a PM about this but it wouldn't let me so I was wondering if you could either send me an email or a PM or even post a reply here letting us know what the "valid reasons" you speak of are for chopping and changing the course intakes?:confused: :uhoh: :confused:

I've been rescheduled onto the Jan '04 course and am not going to jump ship to eurocontrol or change my mind about ATC altogether, but am just curious as to your reply as it sounded as if there was more going on than has been discussed here, and I was wondering if it was going to affect those of us who have been given new course dates?!?:confused:

I'm not that annoyed at NATS for the length of time involved (although I know that some people are!!:* ) as its got to be for our benefit in the long run, but it would be a bit annoying if they were to shift the goalposts again nearer the time!!:ugh: :{ :*

Any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers:ok:

FB

[MattS]

So, I just thought I'd log on here to see what was going on as I've heard nothing from NATS for months, now I've just learnt that FB's taken my place on the Jan '04 course!!! And I heard the south coast is lovely in January. My medical certificate will run out before I get anywhere south of Salisbury. What the ....

This is very distressing. I too am in a god awful job that I though I'd be leaving in Dec.

While some can jump to Eurocontrol etc, some of us have major commitments in the UK so are unable to do anything like that.

Patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue

[Dances with Boffins]

....actually it's a card game. :D

FB check your PMs. :cool:

[MinimumRest]

I'm a little confused..............

You're saying, Dances with Boffins, that the new course won't be til Jul 04 - I thought that Jul 03 was canx and Oct 03 was reduced intake because the new course was to start Oct 03????

MR XxX

[TONY21]

i found out today that i have been put back from julky to october, and its the best thing i've heard since S CLUB broke up.
now i actually get to go my uni graduation at the end of july and i get the whole summer riding around on free VS tickets being a complete drunken arse, a complete bum and clutching on to my NUS card for a little longer, sleeping on the beach and getting wasted.
im off to the south of france for an animation festival at the start of june, and you know what?????? i aint coming back untill the course starts.:E
sorry to all those in 'dead end' jobs who sound utterly p****d off about having to wait any longer, but im so happy i could make pancakes:)
well adios amigos and i will see you in october ...........if i survive the summer.
TONY 21

[Carbide Finger]

Further to Dances' reading list, I can also suggest the Air Navigation Order. A thrilling read which makes up quite a lot of the first three months at the college. Full of legal jargon which is difficult to learn. START NOW!

I admire all of you for waiting so long and hope that you all will start at CATC (or whatever it's called now) soon.

Carbide

[mr.777]

I know this thread is probably well and truly closed by now,but I just got back from holidays last night to some lovely news from NATS....yep,been moved from Oct03 to Mar04.
Having a had a thoroughly unpleasant journey home yesterday,which included a 4.5 hr delay,most of it spent in Havana airport,I got home to the usual mountain of bills and this little gem.A bit devastated,but I'm sticking with it...so I'll see you guys (Boney M,45 before POL etc) next year.I'm going back to bed now having been up for 35hrs straight (will this stand me in good stead for ATC shift patterns?)........
777

P.S. Cuba is fantastic,Air Jamaica are not.

[Phantom99]

I'm very sorry to hear that more of you are being delayed even further. I started last month and have to admit I have heard nothing about these delays.

Our course has got 28 (incl 3 sponsored ATSAs) and we were assuming that the October course was of a similar size, but not too sure now. It is going to be very quiet when my course starts Aerodrome 2, and there is no ADC 1.

[MinimumRest]

I've heard that the Oct intake is 10, not sure if that's definate tho.

MR XxX

[MinimumRest]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again, but...............

Further to my last post, I've just heard that, apparently, the October intake will be as usual, approx 26 students - can anyone confirm/deny please?

MR XxX