owning a kit plane you didn't build yourself

[GeneralMelchet]

I would like to buy a half/nearly finished Europa Kit plane.Basically to save some time on the build but still to finish the aircraft to my spec/taste.I have seen a number in the Pilot/Flyer mags and on the web recently.

The kits I have seen for sale have most of the composite work done but need the engine,electrics and instruments installed

Can anyone tell me what would the PFA's attitude be to someone taking over the build of a kit ? Would I still be able to perform the maintainance?I have no kit plane experience but I am an engineer and am reasonably mechanically compitent.

[Windy Militant]

Get in touch with PFA engineering at shoreham. But beware when buying a part completed kit. Be absolutly sure that all the work done to that point has been properly signed off. I've heard of a couple of cases where the reason for selling was sub standard workmanship and the airframe written off before completion. PFA Contacts (http://www.pfa.org.uk/contact.asp) ;)

[stiknruda]

GM - Windy's post is pretty spot on.

Speak to the guys at Shoreham, I know them all and can guarantee that you will be heard and that your queries will not be the first that they have heard. Best to have a list of questions at hand and know the PFA build #before you ring them, though.

6 yrs ago I bought a box of unrecognisable parts and now fly it!
The pfa deputy chief engineer was/is excellent as are the rest of the team.


Stik

[Genghis the Engineer]

A handful of semi-technical points.

- Often you'll find a builder has started with the cockpit, which may hamper your customisation options.

- It's not unusual for projects to change hands several times before they finally fly. Just keep Shoreham in the loop and your PFA membership current and all will be sweetness and light.

- Do yourself and the chaps at Shoreham a favour and write or Email them, don't phone. You may get a slower answer, but it'll be more thorough, more helpful, and they'll get more work done.

- Yes you can continue to do your own maintenance, even if you buy a flying aircraft second hand.

- If you are working with a good local inspector, almost anything is possible.

- Get a Europa with a proper tricycle gear, you know it makes sense.

G

[FlyingForFun]

...to save some time on the buildThis worries me. Everything I've seen and heard suggests that people who build an aircraft because they want to build an aircraft will succeed, those who build an aircraft because they want to fly the finished product won't. Make sure you know what's involved, and make sure you really do want to do it!Get a Europa with a proper tricycle gear, you know it makes senseCrap! :D :D :D

If you decide to take my advice, and come to the conclusion that it's the flying that you want to do and not the building, then I, ahem, may know of a very well spec'd monowheel Europa with a Rotax 914, based at White Waltham, which could well have a 1/6 share for sale. E-mail me if interested. Hope that doesn't count as advertising! (No, I'm not selling my share... but someone else in my group is.)

FFF
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[Rod1]

If the aircraft concerned is based in Nottinghamshire and is an XS Tri, then I have been to see it and had it inspected by a PFA inspector. You might want to contact me off forum....

If it is a mono, watch out for the insurance, it is very expensive and can be impossible to get if you do not have the right experience mix.

You may have gathered by now that I tried quite hard to do something similar, but ended up with an MCR01 fast build, which should take me about as long to finish as a 1/2 built Europa, with non of the other part built complications.

Rod

[QNH 1013]

"Get a Europa with a proper tricycle gear, you know it makes sense."

If you're thinking of a ready-built example, some of the monowheel Europas have been converted to conventional (i.e. standard taildragger) undercarriage.

I've flown all three types of Europa (mono, tri, and conventional) and I think the conventional gear gives the best compromise.

Also, as has been said above, if you are thinking of a monowheel, get an insurance quote first.

[FlyingForFun]

QNH,

Never heard of a conventional-geared Europa. Sounds interesting - would love to see one!

One of the main advantages of the monowheel, though, is that it's retractible. Does the conversion to conventional lose this? And if so, would that bring the performance down to tricycle levels? (Not a huge difference, I know...)

FFF
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[Genghis the Engineer]

http://www.europa-aircraft.com/

http://www.europa-aircraft.com/Picture%20Gallery/Images/WebSiteNewPic01.jpg

I'm sure there is some performance loss, but it looks pretty well streamlined in so I wouldn't have thought it was too bad. And presumably, it does wonders for handling in crosswinds :O :O

G

[QNH 1013]

FFF

There are quite a few conventional taildragger conversions of Europas around and you can usually see one or two at the PFA Rally each year. There have been some photos in the magazines but I can't unfortunately remember which issues.

The main advantage is of course the differential braking and the fact that they don't fall over when you take the wings off. Oh, and the prop clearance is much better than with the monowheel. Unfortunately you don't then get such a good view over the nose when taxying.

The Genghis photo just shows the monowheel and the tri-gear. Like the tri-gear, the conventional gear doesn't retract, but you only have two wheel out in the wind rather than three, and I think Europa reported some inefficiencies caused by the nosewheel's proximity to the prop in an early report of G-KITS (the first Europa Tri-gear). NB The tri-gear in Genghis's photo is G-KITZ, which is based on the XS spec. Both aircraft in the photos also have the "speed kit" streamling the flap hinges.