Flying instruction in Las Vegas

[eveepee]

Thought I'd ask you experienced Ppruners for some advice:)

I shall be in Las Vegas in March and hoping to have a couple of lessons while I'm there...(beats losing money in the casino's!).

Can anyone recommend a good school or instructor willing to take on this recently solo'd student used to Rochester's grass runways ? Also, what, if any, are the main differences I am likely to encounter ?

Any help greatly appreciated :)

[dublinpilot]

Your best bet is Las Vegas North airport. Don't know if there are any fbo's in McCarran.

Have a look at http://www.airnav.com/ and look up Las Vegas North under airports.

Can't make any recommondations unfortunately!

It's class B airspace, so if you are not used to it, brush up.

Radio is not much different. You will quickly pick it up, if you are comfortable with the radio in the UK.

[Cusco]

evee:

I'd agree with dublinpilot that N Las Vegas is your best bet.

I was there for a very short time three years ago and rented a rather clapped out Arrow (with instructor as safety pilot) from an outfit called Westair Aviation: It seemed a small outfit then, but I've just looked up their website (www.westairaviation.com) and they seem to have expanded.

Flew to Grand Canyon West airport with fantastic views of the Canyon, Dam etc.

And the downwind leg right over 'The Strip' to land at N L Vegas was something else.

Worth looking them up.

Other FBOs at N Las Vegas:
AerLeon Tel (702)647 6011 much bigger outfit
North Las Vegas Flying Club (702) 646 9432
Air Excel is based at Boulder City, half an hour's drive away: might be cheaper.

No experience of these however: you might find their websites.

What to look out for: more experienced ppruners than me will fill you in on US flying: The R.T is different, the runways are huge and watch out for density altitude.

Also Read Richard Gentil's sticky above from NAC regarding visas for training.

Most of all: go for it.

Safe flying

[AerBabe]

In part it will depend on what you want to get out of it.
If you want the flying to contribute towards your PPL, you'll have to find a JAR instructor. But if you just want to practise circuits, PFLs etc etc it could be any instructor (as long as they're patient ;) ). However, if you're just after experience of a different field, RT, and landscape, then you won't need to be too fussy.

[Sensible]

I really wouldn’t bother. North Las Vegas is at a high altitude so circuit bashing is less than exciting because airplanes don’t take off or climb well at high altitude especially if it’s hot. You are going to have to pay 172 rental rates for less than152 performance. Mc Carran Intl is busy to say the least and I think that a student would be on overload trying to land there. I rented an airplane at North Las Vegas flying club some few years ago and wasn’t overly impressed with the club, the aircraft, the airport, or the location. I was even less impressed with the speed that F16's come out of the nearby Nellis Air Force Base!!! I wasn’t very impressed with flying over the Grand Canyon either because special flight rules apply so that the tourist choppers get half a chance of flying through unmolested by Joe public pilots which means that you have to fly so high over the Canyon that you don’t get a good view or see anything interesting. Also, I went into McCarron a few months ago and ATC turned down my request to overfly the Hoover Dam. It may be they were too busy over there or maybe they are not keen on anybody overflying the dam post 9/11. There’s plenty of entertainment down the strip though! The Venetian and Madam Tussauds is not to be missed!

[david viewing]

I cannot agree with the negative comments about Northtown (VGT, or North Las Vegas) appearing here. I have flown from this field (as a UK visitor) for many years and recommend it.

It's true that performance diminishes in summer and the first thing they will make you do is check the density altitude. Take off in a 152 is leisurely with an instructor on board, but solo is not a problem. However, I tend to go there in the winter....

Don't do what 4 large English pilots did when I was there last and turn up expecting to go touring in a Warrior. That would be marginal in the UK and impossible at 2200' and 80F!

Being right under the Bravo airspace is interesting, but like most things in US aviation it is well thought out with clear proceedures. Anyway you can depart VGT to the practice area in the NW without even calling approach. They have new entry proceedures for returning from the S or E that simplify getting back to VGT, including the 'Showboat' route that crosses that hotel. Bravo controllers are very helpful and sympathetic.

Possible day trips from VGT include the Canyon, Death Valley, Lake Havasu city, Saint George (Utah), Needles (California), Flagstaff and of course Lake Mead and the Hoover Dam. When you go to the lake, land at Temple Bar (make sure that's OK with the FBO first). It's a one way strip right on the lake.

It's a great place to fly at night! There's also the Chicken Ranch at Pahrump, but obviously I havn't been there...

Aerleon (mentioned earlier) closed more than a year ago. West Air also mentioned has changed hands and offer professional service with a good fleet. However they are very busy. The owner, John Giles, is very helpful and even has a Southern England 1/2 mil map pinned on the briefing room wall to show US pilots how lucky they are! Another FBO is First Flight, though I havn't flown with them for a few years.

Northtown has improved greatly over the years and now has 3 parallel runways and is the only place that I know where you can follow an airship on the approach (advertising blimps patrol the strip during conventions).

There are free hotel courtesy phones in the terminal building and it's always worth ringing round later in the day for a deal. Go for it!!

[eveepee]

Thanks folks for your comments..... it's always helpful to hear positive and negative views.
I have contacted Westair and will let you know if I take off or not :D

[eveepee]

Just heard back from Westairaviation : I shalln't be taking off for a lesson as they are unable to offer lessons on a tourist visa :( (As expected really , after reading the Sticky Cusco pointed me to ).
It would appear that even 1 or 2 lessons come under the "training" heading. Either that, or word has got out about my flying.:D
Looks like I'll go for a sight seeing tour instead and enjoy the view !

[Kolibear]

Don't forget your camera this time.............. :O

[AerBabe]

If you do go for a sight-seeing tour, book it in advance. When you do, ask if you can sit in the RHS. They might realise you know vaguely ( ;) ) what you're talking about, and let you sit up front. Worth a try!

[Dan Winterland]

Shame about the Visa thing. GA flying in the States can be good, but it's best at Vegas. there are so many things to do and see, intersting palces to visit - and the scenery...! The Grand Canyon, Sedona, Bryce Canyon, death Valley and the West Coast. You just can't beat it. I'd rather fly there than Floida anyday.

If you have a day's 'sightseeing', may I suggest a tour up the Canyon, perhaps landing at Grand Canyon National (6500' amsl) where you can get a bus or taxi to the rim. Or perhaps, fly half way up the canyon, Turn around, fly out to the west to Death Valley, land there (270' below msl) and stop at the visitor centre, then home. you may need a refuel stop at Boulder, but you can take in the Hoover Dam on the way there. I did this last trip with my Mrs Winterland last year - marvellous! Total time 4.30 in a PA28-200R, cost about $100 an hour, but more dual probably.

I've flown at North-town many a time, and Westair is the best of the bunch. A good fleet (lovely fleet livery!) good instruction, good attitude and good facilities.

There have been no flying clubs or GA hire operators at McCarren since 9/11. There are also clubs at Henderson to the south. Sport flying (gliding and aerobatics) can be done at Jean 45mins south of Vegas.

[Gerry Actrick]

As Dan suggested, try Henderson. You can rent a plane and a man will sit with you. You may not be able to log it, but you can enjoy it - which is what it's all about. And the things you can see!!!
Gerry

[eveepee]

Just thought I'd let you know that I have found a flying school in Las Vegas that will allow instruction....apparently the flight training restriction applies to aircraft weighing more than 12,500 pounds. (Can anyone verify this ?) Instead of throwing my money into the slot machines, I shall have a couple of lessons. Even if I can't log the hours, hopefully, I'll have the time to wonder at the scenery. (Particularly the Grand Canyon which I have seen from a helicopter but well worth a second peep).:D

[FlyingForFun]

Ooh, I'm so jealous... it's a beautiful place to fly! Any room to pack me in a suitcase and take me with ;)

(Oh yes, no problem logging the time, by the way. You probably won't be able to count it towards your 45 hours for your PPL, but it still counts towards your total time.)

Have fun!

FFF
---------------

[gijoe]

So...if I head off to Westair and jump in one of their aircraft with one of their instructors, can that time count towards the 12 hours needed in the second year of my JAA PPL(A)?

Confused G ??:confused:

[david viewing]

Considering that a US BFR doesn't count as a "Flight with Instructor" for UK validation purposes I'd suggest it's unlikely that training time with a US instructor would count unless the instructor was JAA as well. Some are.

Don't forget the visa issue! But I don't see why a ride as a tourist should count as instruction for visa purposes if it isn't written up in your logbook as instruction and you are just a passenger. You would still learn a lot, especially in the Bravo airspace in Vegas. Maybe it would be worth asking Westair about that. They could always check with the FAA.

[B2N2]

Unfortunately the visa is needed for flight training in any shape or form not only if it's over 12.500lbs.
But sightseeing over Las Vegas is not flight training in my book at least not if you have license already.
As far as I know you can still "time-build" without a visa as long as you do not do anything to get an additional rating or license.
Tell Immigration you're just another tourist looking for ways to spend his money.
Cheers