Crossing the Irish Sea

[aidanf]

Ok, I'm a looonng way off doing this, but I'd appreciate any opinions from people that have done it - in either direction. What routes, heights, a/c have you done it in - anything in particular to watch out for, etc...etc....etc!!!????

[dublinpilot]

Hi Aidan,

I have done this twice (from weston) but on both occasions I was a student pilot, and my instructor handled most of the unusual stuff.

First time went to Isle of Mann. Stayed pretty low (about 2000ft from memory) to try and stay under controlled airspace. You will be asked for time to cross the flight information region, so have that worked out.

Second time went south along Irish coast, and then from Wexford to Wales. Again stayed at 2000ft. What I most remember most from this was the poor radio communication while half way accross. We had to use another aircraft ahead to relay messages. There are a few danger areas out to sea here. Watch out for them.

Also remember to bring your passport!!

Hopeing to go back to Isle of Mann this year now that I have my ppl.

DP

[aidanf]

thanks dp - 2000ft !!!! - sounds a bit low for me over all that water - aren't you allowed to go any higher to allow for some kind of chance of a long glide in the event of an engine failure? If not then I think when the times comes I'll have to invest in swimming lessons to go with the life-jackets!!!

[expedite_climb]

Hi, I've done Caernarfon - Weston (and back, and back again - thats another story...) and also Weston-Isle of Man - Teesside.

Out of caernarfon climbed to 5000' on a direct track for either Killiney or Bray south of Dublin. Wx was fine, apart from a big lump of status 1000' - 4500'.

Speak to Valley or London Mil via london info and see if the danger areas are cold or not. If cold just route direct, if not you'd have have to go further north.

Dublin CTR has VFR routes, controllers all very helpful, but expect a LOT of freq changes as you have to speak to dublin mil bases for clearence and back to dublin again.

If wx is a bit dodgy they may say "Can you see those two big red towers ?"

"Affirm"

"Well just fly towards 'dose 'den." :-)

The two big red towers are at the mouth of the river liffey.

The next day we went Weston - IOM. Again lots of freq changes, but the controllers v.helpful, and basically vectored us around to the north of dublin, coasting out and picked up a radial to IOM ibd.

Hope this helps.

[Vizsla]

Expect very little assistance from IOM ATC

[long final]

aidanf,

On the issue of height, my advice is in the 'high as you are legally able to' schoolyard. I've not flown to Dublin yet (though tried to organise it enough times :( ) I have done BPL to IOM a few times though. On a clear day its pretty straight forward, but you are very aware of all that water.

The same trip in 7km haze was completely different. It was basically IMC all the way, you couldn't tell which way was up.

I heard tell of a chap who would time his trip so the Hollyhead to Dublin (can't spell Dun thingy) ferry and he would be in the middle at the same time, so at least he might get a life raft thrown to him.:eek:

My last bit, if you are planning the trip for sometime soon, either take a raft or wear an immersion suit, you would die in minutes out there without them.

Oh, and take a GPS if you can, exact location would speed up a rescue.

Remember to file a flight plan.

Enjoy it.

Regards,
LF

ps - as I have said here before, you'll be surprised how keen your hearing will be whilst out of gliding range land. :eek: :D :eek:

[david viewing]

I've done this trip VFR quite a few times.

The cloudbase over the sea is often higher, or even CAVOK, when the land is murky. 5000' (or FL 50) is often VFR and seems OK with Dublin while east of Killiney (KLY). (Remember it is controlled airspace all the way from the FIR boundary to Weston). I think there is an airway at 6000 on the UK side (don't have chart here) so watch that. The higher the better.

There are reporting points like LIFFEY and KUSIT that are not on the UK VFR chart but are worth marking in and using when reporting the boundary.

Make sure you have the Valley frequency which is not as shown on some older! charts as they are very helpful. Also London Information can be hard to raise on 124.75 in this sector but the frequency shown on the N England chart does work.

You may get a danger area crossing from Aberporth sometimes even if it's 'hot' (For instance I did Arklow - Caernarvon direct on one occasion) so it's worth asking.

The Weston circuit is very cramped but the airfield has improved no end recently and they now have a tower with A/G (dont know the exact status but it is a big improvement because they can see you inbound now). They have a coffee shop, hard parking and can get you taxi or car hire.

When you land at Weston rwy 07 be prepared to taxi to the end where there is a refuge and await landing traffic before backtracking. I suggest not to cross the grass to the parallel taxiway, at this time of year anyway.

The IAA have a useful document on Weston at http://www.iaa.ie/ (you have register, then type 'Weston' into the search).

Dublin hand you off when you are visual with Weston which can be difficult to spot. They will also close your flight plan but do request this on the radio before changing.

You are looking for a narrow runway 25/07 about a mile S of the river with a lake and a large industrial unit to the W. I've been there many times and still find it hard to see. They might ask you to join overhead at 1500' but Dublin starts at 1500'! so 1450' is about right.

Be prepared for Dublin to route you north and west around the zone via Gormanston (now inactive) and Navan if the weather is not VFR and into / out of Weston along the canal.

On the UK side the weather is often murky east of Valley and there is a lot to be said for the low level route along the N Wales coast to Point of Air remaining clear of Liverpool and south via Hawarden Shawbury Wolverhampton etc all of whom are helpful and make good diversion options. You can do the whole trip at 1500' if neccessary.

Sorry it's a long post but hope it helps.

[Ludwig]

Done it several times St David's head to Waterford via Tasker Rock NDB. Speak to London (Waste of time that it is) decend to about 100 feet. Speak to Shannon very helpful people, they don't seem to mind what you do but you need clearance into Waterford Zone from somewhere, climb to avoid hitting the rock; dct Waterford. Waterford Info is simple to deal with and the runway is huge.

Excellent flight. On a good day you can see Wales from the Irish Coast.

Fly low speak to no one

[Whirlybird]

I've done Haverfordwest-Waterford, and Kilkenny-Haverfordwest. On the way over we could only make 1200 ft due to low cloud, and like someone else mentioned, we lost London Info halfway over. Waterford were friendly, asked us to report some place we couldn't find on our charts, and when we told them, asked for another point, enquiring if we could find it like we were two strange foreigners with little sketch maps! We came back IFR, cloud all the way - my co-pilot had an IMC; I just did the radio and played with the VOR etc.

Talk to someone; you want to be in radio contact when you're flying over 40 miles of water. Wear a life jacket and immersion suit at the very least; carry a liferaft if you can. 80% of people survive ditchings; half of those die of hypothermia before they can be rescued!!!! :eek: :eek: You can hire all of these things from SEMS very cheaply; I don't have the phone number to hand - do a search, or if you can't find it, ask me again and I'll look it up for you.