Hong Kong - what it's really like

[djembe56]

What is it like living in Hong Kong? How does the cost of living compare with Australia - ie Melbourne? Is it better for the married guys than the single guys? What sort of social life can a single pilot expect? What's the quality of life like? How do spouses and the kids cope? Could a single person expect to meet other singles? Do expats buy houses/apartments or do they rent? Has anyone taken their dog/cat with them? Does anyone commute from Australia? Has anyone left their spouse/family/partner behind?

The answer to these questions and any comments on living in Hong Kong would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

DJ

[Alpha Leader]

jembe56:

Many of your questions have been raised and answered recently on similar threads.

Here is some up-to-date information:

It's hard to draw a "one size fits all" comparison between HK and Melbourne, but in general, you'll find most things more expensive here except for income tax (which is 15% flat).

Living: depending on the area you elect to live in, your rent will be around HK$10 to 30 per sq. ft. (A$1 ~ HK$4.4) per month. Buying (a new property) will set you back around HK$2,500 to 4,000 per sq. ft. and remember you'll need 20% deposit at least. Buying on the secondary market is more difficult, as banks tend to provide a lower mortgage ceiling for such properties.

Schools: unless your kids speak/read/write Chinese (Cantonese), they'll need to attend a private school or an ESF (English Schools Foundation) establishment. The ESF schools are the cheapest alternative, as they are (still) subsidised by the government, but that may change soon. Private schools often demand up-front purchase of debentures on top of school fees. In short, my two sons (who attended a private school in HK up to Primary 4) are at boarding school in Melbourne because they get a far better all-round education (including sports) for much the same money we'd be spending here.

Cost of living: you'll find in general that one-off purchases, such as TV sets, cameras, DVD players, mobile phones, etc. are cheaper in HK, but many of the daily necessities are more expensive. Here are some prices for you:

- Milk, long-life, one litre HK$12
- Potatoes, one lb: HK$3.60
- Beer (Carlsberg), one can in supermarket: HK$6.00
- Detergent, major brand, 2.5 kg: HK$50
- Breakfast cereal, one box: HK$28
- Unleaded petrol, one litre: HK$11

- Pint of beer at a pub/bar: HK$ 40
- Big Mac Meal: ~HK$20
- Newspaper: HK$7

We've taken pets (cats) from HK to Australia, but not vice-versa. However, it's possible - you'll need a heap of documentation, though. Please keep in mind that Hong Kong apartments/houses are smaller than what you would have in Oz and in most cases do not have any yard worth speaking of. The HK SPCA is always happy to find a good home for a dog or cat.

Social life: good for both singles and couples; for kids, the lack of open both spaces and a sports culture can be frustrating, though.

[shortly]

Good summary Alpha and very relevant. A lot of families get involved in sailing as an activity to do together and there are lots of reasonably priced places to learn/do this. Hong Kong is what you make it, I would bet if you are happy where you live now as a family you will also be happy in Hong Kong. There is also lots of scope for mama san to get involved in extra curricular activities if she wants to get out of the house. We got involved in providing help for orphanages - great fun and very rewarding. Hong Kong can be very expensive if you want the jet set life style but for the 'average' family an occasional dinner out at the best restaurants is most affordable. I and my family love it here, pollution, crowded shopping on the weekends and all.

[jtr]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I would bet if you are happy where you live now as a family you will also be happy in Hong Kong

[shortly]

You wouldn't get it jtr but thank you for being so obvious.

[hymie]

Someone touch a nerve shortly?

I know of 3 colleagues where Cathay/Hong Kong has been a major contributor to either a divorce, or a resignation.

Keep waving the flag matey, I am sure Peter will agree with you!

[BlueEagle]

C'mon Hymie play fair!:)

That is three out of how many? Divorce and moving on are no foreigners to the aviation world and I doubt if the incidence in CX is any more, (or less), than the industry world wide, it is just that within an expatriate community everybody knows, unlike the UK, for example?

[hymie]

Sorry BE, can't give you the exact %, but it is three out of the 50 or so people I know/have known well enough in CX, to have stated plainly that they were leaving because the wife/family wasn't handling HK/CX.

I am not including anyone who has not said it to me firsthand.

If it's such a hoot up here, then why are a lot of the guys who are returning to HK after the post 23AG ATO screw up, finding themselves commuting?

In fact why are there so many commuters in the first place????

Yes there are lots who are happy up here, but it's not all fluffy white clouds and harp music, and it certainly isn't home!

[djembe56]

Thanks for the comments guys. I've also done a search using the words Hong Kong life and came up with quite a bit of info.

Most of the postings appear to come from those who are married. I'm guessing that having your family with you can either be a plus in as much as you're all in it together, or it can lead to problems as mentioned above.

But what about the single pilots? Do you end up socialising only with other pilots? Are there opportunities to meet members of the opposite sex? I know in regional bases in Australia pilots and FAs socialise - does this happen in Hong Kong as well?

[shortly]

People come to Hong Kong to find employment for two reasons, either because they want to or because they have to. Those who do come to Hong Kong, for whatever reason, find it quite different to their 'home', assuming that they are of Western origin. This 'difference' can be intimidating or exciting, dependent on your upbringing and foibles. But it is not the Hong Kong of 30 years ago, in no way a hardship post. Supermarkets stock everything I am used to, they kick balls the same shape that I remember. The language strikes a chord and I can hear the occasional wood on leather. This and the opportunity to save and live quite well. Yes I think it's quite rosey here. When I arrived a friend gave me some advice, 1st, if you have a shakey marriage don't bring it here as all weaknesses will be cruelly exposed, usually by the husband. 2nd, don't play with fancy cars or fancy watches and if you leave with the wife you come with you will do very nicely. Both good advice. There are many reasons why folks commute, some medical, some scholastic, some family and some plain greed. If CX is so bad why don't those folks dump their huge conditions and take work in their home country?

[HotDog]

Hong Kong is what you make of it; you either love it or you hate it. I spent 33 years there, which at the time of my retirement was half my entire life. Went through a sticky divorce which had nothing to do with either Hong Kong or Cathay. Re- married ( a flight attendant) and produced a second family. To me, Hong Kong will always be home and I visit there on a regular basis.

[boofta]

There is a price for the EXPAT lifestyle. Do not underestimate that
price.There is nothing sadder than the old CX retiree who has not
spent some time/effort keeping relationships going with family &
friends. Its okay to bag commuters but ultimately those that sit
pat as expats pay the price- you want to retire in HK as a sim
instructor or perhaps to see out your days in Sai Kung?

Whats it like in HK? NEVER forget that home is somewhere else.
Whether the wife is happy here or not, one day you leave HK!

Your family and friends have enough trouble relating to our
expat lifestyle without cutting off all contact with them in your
home country. After all, does'nt everyone travel all over the world
and have more money than sense!

There are precious few non Asian women for guys to meet in HK.
Single guys should seriously consider this fact. If you want to be
in Asia for the remainder of your life and your single, join CX

There are a lot of great things about HK that your kids will see
and hopefully benefit from. Personally, the spirit of the locals is
inspiring and shows what hard work and focus can achieve without any real assets but hard work!

Good luck to all.

[gissmonkey]

Try being an expat in PNG..........HK is easy though the girls aren't nearly as friendly:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Plastique]

Come here with a plan.
While HK is not what you'd call a hardship posting, it's not where I plan to stay the rest of my life.
They money's good. The Tax is low. don't get used to spending it all, or you'll be here forever. Keep you outgoings low and your lifestyle in check, and in 10 year you will be able to down-shift in style. Take the politics too seriously and it will kill you.
Single guys:
Not the best place. You will find loads of beautiful ladies from all over Asia, but status climbers. You'll have a hard job to find someone you can respect as a equal. They are available, but to be fair, most of the western ladies here are other peoples wives.
Keep a level head, and don't lose the plot, and you'll come out the other end a retiree about 15 years earlier than usual.

Which is nice..

[pontius's pa]

"There are precious few non Asian women for guys to meet in HK."

I was going to post a typical light hearted MCP response to this, as in thanks God for that etc.

Then I read this

"You will find loads of beautiful ladies from all over Asia, but status climbers. You'll have a hard job to find someone you can respect as a equal."

I am disgusted by this ignorant and raciallist post.

Although they seem witty to me at the time, (de booze is a turrible ting), I make some pretty silly posts but I try hard not to insult anybody. This one is different.

Some Asian ladies can be very loving until they get your hands on your wallet, and they can be very hard to resist when they put the charm on. However, I did not realise that the universally virginal, utterly pure, totally unmaterialistic, Caucasian girls never indulge in such behaviour and have a breeding line that any self respecting man would die to breed from.

But at least the Asians are are honest about it, unlike most of the thick ankled, generally physically gross, disgustingly large and unpleasantly odoured Caucasian specimens who I could never even think remotely of an "equal"

Many in the Asian society are more highly bred and respected, regardless of their current circumstances, than some oik who happens to be a "pilot", or the holder of any other occupation across the spectrum for that matter.

[HotDog]

Who in hell would want to meet up with a non Asian woman after you have met up with an Asian.:confused:

[BlueEagle]

OK ladies and gentlemen, points made by both sides, for and against etc.

Can we now please dump the racial stuff and get back to the topic of what life is like in Hong Kong but leave out matters which are of a highly personal and individual nature. Ones man's meat is another man's poison , as the saying goes.

Objective and non racial comments please. Thanks.


BlueEagle - Moderator.

[Traffic]

Yes Traffic, you definitely got that wrong, which is why your post has been deleted. Hymie, if you think what traffic said was, "well thought out" then I am feeling sorry for you. :mad:

[hymie]

:D

Well thought out

[Traffic]

Blue Eagle

Please explain yourself, my wife and I are interested.

I tried to explain that, like many gwailos, you are simply without humour. My wife suggested something more sinister.

That said, I am seriously intersted in why you found my post offensive enough to delete. I humbly suggest many others would also be...

Cheers

[hymie]

Traffic, are you sure you are allowed to talk to the ref after you have been sent to the sin bin?

BE, you gotta lighten up some mate. If the people reading this forum can't handle that ..... you know the rest.

[BlueEagle]

Please re-read my original post on this subject, reproduced below:

"Back to the Topic Please!
OK ladies and gentlemen, points made by both sides, for and against etc.

Can we now please dump the racial stuff and get back to the topic of what life is like in Hong Kong but leave out matters which are of a highly personal and individual nature. Ones man's meat is another man's poison , as the saying goes.

Objective and non racial comments please. Thanks.


BlueEagle - Moderator"

and perhaps you can tell me which part of that you don't fully understand please?

I read you comments and thought they could be seen as offensive, particularly by those amongst you in Fragrant Harbour and elsewhere whose wives are of Asian ethnic origin.
Nothing wrong with my sense of humour, it is just a case of a time and place for everything and a widely read BB is not always the place. Not sure just what "sinister motives" Mrs Traffic is suggesting, I have no hidden agenda and no, my wife is not from Asia.

I don't propose to continue this discussion on this thread, feel free to use the PM or email system if you wish.

BlueEagle - Moderator.

[mole]

First post for weeks and weeks bcos I wasn't going to post ever again on FH, however!

BE you really seem to have lost it mate. Those of us who do have Asian wives I am sure are having trouble understanding your position. What excatly is the point you are objecting to and what is the point you are trying to get across to us?

[FaPoGai]

Well I don't believe it!

The only one on the thread with any nous is Hot Dog.(we must have been contemporaires ?)
H-K. and CPX was the single most enjoyable experience in my working life and my only regret is that the law prevented me from getting more than one Asian wife. On reflection also the bank!

Get your act together boys. CX is the best job you will ever get and when you are old and grey (like moi ) you will wish it had never stopped.
By the way I used to live in To Fuk Street, perhaps it influenced my attitude?
Rgds. FaPo Gai

[Traffic]

Epilogue

Clarence, my trusty computer, has exchanged signals with our Moderator and I believe we have buried the old meat cleaver.

I found the 'one man's meat is another man's poison' advice rather apropos to some of the earlier comments and attempted some embellishments on the subject which attracted the off-side flag.

For the record, I would like to state that Mrs Traffic is in fact an Asian. One with a very keen wit and highly developed sense of humour. As a result, so are my offspring.

As many have said, HK is very much what one makes it . Those that are miserable will soon find they can be just as miserable anywhere, and invariably are. The day you decide to learn a bit of the language and enjoy the rich diversity on offer is the day your eyes open. The so-called ex-pat lifestyle gives you the privilege to enjoy HK not the license to whinge about it.

The only real concern I would flag is the difficulty in providing a balanced education and lifestyle to teenagers.

There are many hardship posts on the plnet. HK is not one of them.

[shortly]

Lol Traffic, well said. But also having occasionally crossed things with the moderator I guess I must say on his behalf that his job is difficult. I suppose he has to err on the side of caution and I feel certain his soh is really there somewhere, perhaps hidden from us nonetheless. GL.

[BlueEagle]

Thanks Traffic and Shortly . Mr Mole, I edited out a post that I interpreted as possibly causing offence, maybe you didn't see it before it was edited, maybe you did and placed a totally different interpretation on it?

Part of a moderators job is to ensure that conflict is avoided, what may appear quite harmless to you may seriously upset someone else so one errs on the side of caution. It takes very little for a smouldering ember to become a raging bush fire here on the Fragrant Harbour forum where feelings frequently run high. Anything that contains a racial connotation, however slight, falls into this category, if you don't believe me just take a look in Jet Blast some time, including the archives!

There is nothing wrong with my sense of humour, in fact it is here in abundance, this forum, however, rarely, if ever, gives an opportunity for it to show!

Those are my last posted words on this subject as we can all beg to differ. Anyone who feels the need is welcome to contact me either via the PM or email function of the BB.

Cheers,

BlueEagle - Moderator.

[pontius's pa]

As BE indicated

Nuff said on this.

Time for bed said Zebedee

Thank Christ for that said Florence, I thought you would never ask.

Good night Florence, Good night Brian, Good night Zebedee, Good night everybody

ZZzzzz......

[shortly]

Good night John boy.

[Flying Swan]

Personally I think Hong Kong is a great city to be part of. There are so many things and activities to do there, and don't forget the warm climate!

So my advice......go for it!!!!!!

There are so many other western expats living overthere, most of them work for the business companies.

If you need some more info about magnificent Hong Kong, please take a visit to one of these sites:

www.discoverhongkong.com

www.english.hongkong.com/directory/life

www.pagina.hongkong.nl (sorry, this site is in Dutch language only)

If I would have to chance to work for Cathay Pacific and to become an expat in Hong Kong, I would certainly do it!

However, I'm afraid CX doesn't hire western flight attendants, I would love to work for them as a senior flight attendant.

Flying Swan

[Dr._Strangelove]

Hi all

I found this thread very informative. Thank you for answering some questions for me. :-) I do However, have a couple more questions.

Being a European I have never heard the expression PAT or EX-PAT. What does mean??

I know that this thread is made to cast some light over the living/family environment in HK, but you make it sound like it's only an option to work for CX if you can cope with the lifestyle of HK. I would like to know if any of you has any knowledge of what it's like to have a base in ie Europa or the US while working for CX. This would be very interesting for me as I would like to transfer some day. That is if I get a job. :o I have only just been ivitied for the first interview. ;)

Anyway, thanks in advance and good luck to you all, whatever your future has in store for you.

[HotDog]

Expatriate-a person who lives by choice in a foreign country. Expat for short.

[FaPoGai]

Dr._Strangelove
EX-PATS fall into two(or more) categories------------
1) The Innocent Abroad
2) The Unaccompanied Minor
Most survive!
Rgds. FPG.

[Flying Swan]

For more info on X-pat life, please visit www.asiaxpat.com.hk

[christep]

But bear in mind that AsiaXpat is a commercial site, not the open exchange forum that it appears to be. There is very heavy censorship of any contribution which makes any comment which could be considered in any way negative towards any of the very many advertisers on that site, and of contributions which conatin positive comments or recommendations for any competitors of any of the advertisers. When you see how many advertisers it has then you will realise that this basically means you shouldn't put any value on any recommendations there. Additionally, contributions can be made under any alias so there is no way of identifying who says what or what any individual's track record of advice is like.

So all in all, apart from the directories of links to other useful sites I would say AsiaXpat is pretty useless.

[Flying Swan]

Sorry Christep, I didn't realise this site would be so commercial. Anyway thanks for your info.

[freightdriver]

What an interesting posting...learned a few things bout HK and CX. Just curious does CX expat crew comprise mainly of expatriate with western origin or there are other nationality...(of other Asian origin) and do they mix well together or mainly segregated...I am not trying to start another hell raising topic...just curious.:=

[jtr]

freightdriver, something like 99.8% of the expats are 'western', the new freight setup (DHL or whatever they are going to call it) with A300's (i think) is rumoured to be flown by local (asian region) pilots.

[Cripple 7]

Perhaps some of the ex-PAL pilot?:rolleyes:

[Ramboflyer 1]

Well after all it is only freight and the aircraft are insured.....:ouch: :suspect:

Ramboflyer1 - You are starting to tread on thin ice, your provocative posts are usually well accepted as adding a bit of life to the FH forum, this one is not so clever.

BlueEagle - Moderator.

[US Marine]

despite all the complaints, hong kong is a lot of fun....you just need to open your eyes and stop letting a life of complaint taint the big picture. if you keep your job as a means to living life to the full, you will do okay. if you lose sight of reality, and take your job into your life, you will end up as boring and lifeless as half of the senior crews of cx.