Icing

[khorne]

Everyone on this post (and on any other post that mentions it) seems to say that you need to really avoid ice because it is "nasty stuff". Clearly it is better to stay out of ice if you can but I wonder if we should actually be getting people to experience some icing during training so they don't panic. VFR pilots are taught how to at least turn out of cloud if they go IMC inadvertantly and get to experience it so why not the same with icing?

The other aspect about icing is that, like everything else in flying, there are set things you can do. For example, you might turn on the alternate air if you have one and alternate static. You might also want to think about whether you should be climbing on top, descending, or turning round. Climbing on top is often the safest answer but then you have to get back down. Just how many people have been in an iced aircraft and then experienced how long it takes for the windscreen to clear when below the icing layer. How much faster do you have to land if the wings are iced up? What about tailplane stall?

I have been in light icing a number of times without any problem but one time I had rain ice and it was such a shock and so bad that I didn't do things properly. The only way we can ansure that we do things properly when it really counts it to experience it and train for it.

[knobbygb]

How would you go about finding enough ice for the training without the situation getting out of control? I'd have thought that training in ice and training in IMC are two different things altogether, after all, in IMC the instructor sat next to you will have an Instrument or IMC rating or you might just be wearing foggles, but in ice it's for real - what can you do if it gets out of control?

All sounds a bit too dangerous for me, and I'm glad I learnt about icing out of a text book.

[Dusty_B]

Finding icing conditions to show someone what ice on the wings looks like is like cutting the fuel to the engine to show them how to deal with an engine failure.

What happens if you can't reverse the situation??

[rustle]

Dusty_B

Finding icing conditions to show someone what ice on the wings looks like is like cutting the fuel to the engine to show them how to deal with an engine failure.

A tad dramatic :)

A better analogy may have been the EFATO in a twin drill:
Dangerous yes.
Should be practiced yes.

On an ISA day, the freezing level is likely to be about 7-8000' AMSL, and progressively warmer as you get lower...

Except for certain areas of the UK, 7-8000' AMSL is quite high and well above MSA.

A thin layer of stratus, at those levels, will give you a taste of light icing, which a descent of a couple of thousand feet will rapidly clear** (** assuming you notice it accumulating and don't leave it until it is thickening)

IMO it makes sense to train for this eventuality just as much as training for any other emergency situation.

A badly handled PFL is just as dangerous (more so??) than light icing at altitude when you know the temp/MSA below you.

[khorne]

I can't see anything wrong with cutting the fuel to show a student what happens when the prop stops. This is yet another example of things that should be considered, perhaps as some kind of immediate post PPL training. I have stopped the prop 3 times in order to not only see what happens but also as the only reliable way of seeing how much fuel each tank would hold. It is a real non event when done above an airfield at say 5000ft.

[FlyingForFun]

I suspect it would be illegal to demonstrate icing in most training aircraft... something to do with flight into known icing conditions in an aircraft which isn't suitably equipped.

FFF
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[Wrong Stuff]

It might be sensible to do the training in an aircraft fitted with deicing kit. You could do the exercise with the kit turned off, but have it there for backup in case you need it. I have a feeling that's about the only way you'd persuade an instructor to do it.

Of course, this doesn't have to be an official part of training - we could all hire an instructor to take us up to do it if we felt we were likely to be doing the sort of flying which would benefit from it. If anyone actually does this, do report back.

There's a danger, though, that it might lead people into thinking they can handle light icing, giving them a false sense of security and getting them into trouble.

[Russell Zero]

During my IMC my instructor chose a day where conditions were such that the cloudbase was around 3000ft, as was the icing level. He took us up into the cloud while practising some holds, with the purpose of demonstrating what it looks like when ice starts building up on your wings (and temp. probe). We could see how it was gradually building up, then we descended and watched it all fall off. I believe this was not at all dangerous, and Im thankful for having experienced first hand what it's like to see ice building up. I've only experienced it once since in IMC on a cross country, while trying to climb through the cloud instead of staying in it at just below the freezing level. It was a good lesson, and I'm glad of it!

[jayemm]

A few years ago, in winter I was in IMC training in a single over Southampton. The weather wasn't too good, thick cloud and rain; ideal for latter-stage IMC training. We did some holds, then an instrument approach and on climbing out through 2,000 ft and at the border of the zone we noticed that the rain had changed to snow. One look at the wings which were icing, and my instructor took control and hardly spoke as he zipped us back across Odiham (with permission) and into Blackbushe very low.

We landed safely in snow at Blackbushe.

This unplanned experience worked for me in that I am very cautious about icing; over-cautious I hope. It was my instructors' silence which said it all, and it was quite enough. I definitely would not want that type of training, at that altitude, done deliberately.

[slim_slag]

exactly fff. They would pull your ticket before you hit the ground (hopefully under control). Careless and Reckless would be the first charge, and then they would get nastier!