MMMmmmiles Aircraft

[Zlin526]

Hi Hairyplane,

Others have described the KZ8. Not a classic by any means, but nonetheless, a rare type. A great shame for ANY vintage aircraft to be left to rot, but what drives the owners to neglect them? Obviously lack of time or money to some extent, but why not pass them on to others who are willing to put them back into the air.

At my local airfield, there is a Jodel D140 that has been at the back of the hangar since 1986 or so. A classic if ever there was one, the aircraft is now sitting with flat tyres, no fabric on the wings and under a leaking roof, the owner resisting all attempts by others to buy it, so it will surely end it's days there.

:confused:

[Hairyplane]

Hi Z,

THere are some wierd people about.

I have known many aircraft over the years that have sat neglected, owners dismissing all offers to buy them.

Your Jodel - great machine ( I have a Robin Regent) - should be touring around Europe (or on skis in and out of Altiports...?!).

I think I know it. If not, there is one languishing in similar circumstances @ Headcorn.

Such strange behaviour is of course not limited to aviation. We can all relate similar stories, be it cars, boats or WHY?

I take my responsibilities seriously - I am fortunate enough to be the temporary custodian of 2 very rare old wooden planes. All I can promise to do is lavish as much money and care on them as possible, allow as many people as possible to see them fly and, thereafter (hopefully with a few more years of flying left in me) ensure that they are passed on to like minded people.

Nowt so queer as folk....

VBR

HP

[Zlin526]

Talking of crimes against aeroplanes, there has been a high back Mk16 Spitfire sitting in the private owner's hangar at Halton for a few years now. Completly covered in dust, cowling panels hanging off, tyres flat....

Surely if you can afford to buy one, you can afford to keep it?

[DOC.400]

"Surely if you can afford to buy one, you can afford to keep it?"

Buying one is the (relatively) easy bit.....how about £40-60,000 to overhaul the VP prop at Dowty Rotol for starters...??

:(

DOC

[DamienB]

I suppose the obvious answer to that is, if you can't afford to fix the prop, sell the aeroplane to somebody who can. Or sell your house. Or your wife. Or your kids.

[Zlin526]

Surely if you can afford to buy one, you can afford to keep it?

£40-60,000 will be multiplied 3-fold if the aeroplane is not cared for soon...

[RileyDove]

Doc. - are you sure on that price for a notice 75 inspection on a Spitfire prop - maybe a complete overhaul yes - inspection quite a lot cheaper - relatively speaking!

[Stampe]

At the request of HP a cut and paste into the main thread of a great reminisce from Speedbird 48 now residing in America of his MMMMMMMMiles MMMMMmoments.thanks for sharing them with us!!!

MMMmmmiles aircraft
Today is a day for memories and I would like to add what little I know about various Miles airplanes.
I was a boy at Denham in the early/mid '50's where the club operated G-AFBS and G-AJZH. I went solo in ''BS and have paid it a state visit at Duxford where it was being rebuilt. 'ZH didn't make it as Janet Fergusons mother, at a late age, force landed on a disused airfield in East Anglia that had been dug up and was covered in broken lumps of concrete.
Also at Denham at the time was the Airways Aero Club and they had several Maggies in the G-AKK? series. I later helped Roy Mills operate G-AKKR from Elstree and I last saw it at the museum in Manchester. I was responsible for the non-standard venturis underneath it and the modified instrument panels that it still has.
Alf Carey owned G-AIUA and an Auster Arrow, G-AJAM that I frequently rode in to breakfast patrols. Alf bought a Miles Mercury from Switzerland which he later force landed when a rag caught fire under the cowling. I believe the inquiry showed that he was minus some essential paperwork?
The Maggie was a great machine and a good trainer that has held me in good stead for 13,000hrs. Stalls usually followed by a spin was a very interesting deal and a flat spin was even more of a gripping experience. I owe a lot to Wilbur Wright, Yvonne Pope, Eddy Hewitt and others for getting me along the right track with the help of a great airplane.

[Scion]

Hairyplane and z

Following your sad recounting of the fate of old classics I have recently retrieved the reminents of a B A Eagle VH-UUY which rotted on Bathurst aerodrome for many years untill the back of the aeroplane broke and only some wing fittings and a decayed centre section left.

The story was the same, many resonable offers went unheeded untill it was to late.

[Conc]

Well I am looking forward to another good gathering of Miles aircraft at G-VFWE this year. The Speed Six will be there

[Hairyplane]

Hi Scion et al,

Isn't it such a shame that we know of a number of salvageable wooden airframes that survived the 60's 'glue scare' cull only to fall into the hands of selfish people.

The word 'selfish' is carefully chosen. OK, the White Waltham Miles Monarch is stored in reasonable conditions and could presumably be salvaged at some stage in the future. However, the Bob Mitchell collection of rotters (Monarch, Witney Straight and now - it transpires, a rare Swedish machine - is so saddening, there ought to be law against it!

The funny thing is, I met him at Turweston a few years back when operating Messenger G-AKBO from there. He intoduced himself, waxed lyrical about the marque, stated his intenton of getting them flying again and gave me his EMail address etc.

I then gave up trying to contact him to get a peek inside the Cosford shed where he stores them.

I learn from others who have seen the aircraft - or what remains of them - that the conditions in which they are stored is (my words) 'heart breaking'.

Fortunately, there are those amongst us (in addition to me!) whose hearts rule their heads, their partners heads and their wallets.

Fourteen or so airworthy Miles Aircraft worldwide - hopefully to increase by at least the Richard Earl Miles Hawk (Homer drool!) - and at least the story isn't so bad.

It could be more, but for the selfish few. Ho hum.

How is the Scion coming along Scion? The photos you sent m were very impressive. If you ever, ever had a brain (or wallet!) failure and felt that I ought to own it give me a price and a few weeks to hock everything.

I can just imagine your wonderful machine in the Old Warden circuit!

Come and vist. Come and fly the Magister (You had two of them in the war!)

Respect (!) and best wishes from 'Up Over'.

HP

[Stampe]

Hi heres one for the serious Miles enthusiast /historian.Chatting to a colleague of mine he recalled as a fiftten year old boy having been a passenger in a Miles Messenger that crashed shortly after take off from Rochester.He recalls the aircraft crashed into trees they were all unhurt but the aircraft was badly damaged so presumably written offFrom his age it must have been about 40 years ago.Anyone tell me the exact date airframe and any facts??.Are there any computer databases that chronicle accidents that far back??.I remember spending several fascinating hours in the CAA library reading old AAIB reports from way back in the fifties!!.How things have moved on it !!Would be useful to be able to computer search that information.Here,s hoping. :E

[vintage ATCO]

Could this be it?

G-AKZX formally RH 424 crashed on take-off from Rochester 24.7.65

[Stampe]

Hey how about that for a quick answer thanks V.atco .Now all I need is to get my hands on the AAIB report !!,CAA library I guess?.What a great site and easily the best bit of Pprune nowadays.Thanks.

[Aerohack]

'KZX was owned by the legendary Neville Browning, who famously looped it at an airshow at Shoreham in 1962. It was abandoned at Rochester after the accident and broken up there, though some parts survived until the late 1960s. Neville was killed in his Zlin Trener Master G-ASIM at Seething in 1971.

[Zlin526]

Stampe,

Check your PMs

Z;)

[ozplane]

I've just finished reading"Miles Aircraft" by Rod Simpson and I see that there are references to two Messengers, EC-ACU and G-ALAH as being stored in Spain awaiting "eventual restoration". Did this happen? Could be an answer buried in this thread so apologies if it is.

[vintage ATCO]

According to Air Britain's British Civil Aircraft Registers G-ALAH was stored at Sabadella, Barcelona, as at 3/95.


VA

[RileyDove]

Last time I spoke to my friend down there the Messenger G-ALAH was for sale whilst the Spanish registered aircraft had been airworthy until quite recently I believe.

[Ex Oggie]

Messengers, EC-ACU and G-ALAH as being stored in Spain awaiting "eventual restoration".

They were both still under restoration when I last heard from the engineers doing the work last year. If anyone has any Messenger manuals they would allow to be copied, I think they are still looking for a few volumes.

[treadigraph]

This chap, Adrian Beney seems interested in Miles aircraft - some nice old pics and some links! Apologies if it's been aired before...

www.beney.org.uk (http://www.beney.org.uk/personal/miles/miles.html)

[Hairyplane]

Hi MMMmmiles afficianados! I reckon we will achieve 10,000 hits before too much longer??

Ex-Oggie -

Manuals etc for the Messenger are not scarce. They should join the Miles Aircraft Collection - twenty quid a year for access to everybody even remotely connected with the marque. There is a wealth of knowledge, parts etc.

A full Workshop Manual should be achievable for around £30, possibly a lot less. A great book with lots of illustrations - a must!

Treadigraph - My chum Adrian Beney has indeed posted a wealth of information on this thread, soon after I started it in fact.

Have a browse through on a wet day!

HP

[treadigraph]

I already have but, if it rains (and I get a lunch undistrubed by the boss, I might just do so again...!

[Ex Oggie]

HP

Thanks, I really need to give GEJS a call sometime, I have still got his mobile number somewhere, the Guru of Messengers.

My interest is starting to be re-kindled as the possibility of getting my medical back, after far too long, looms ever closer.

EO

[Hairyplane]

I tried to PM you EO but you aren't able to receive them??

I see you are in Warwickshire?

Me 2. My Regent is at Shotteswell.

You can send me a PM if you want?!

VBR

HP

[ozplane]

I was at Duxford yesterday and pleased to see the Magister restoration appears to be nearly finished. Pity it won't fly but I'd better not go there. It may have been covered elsewhere on the thread but why are the front and rear windscreens so different? The front one is an engineering job and the rear one a simple (?) perspex effort.

[JDK]

Hi Ozplane,

The front windscreen frame is actually a rollover cage, attached to the main structure. I'm told (still waiting to find out, as a guest of Hairyplane) that the rear cockpit is a lot windier than the front. I think the bigger screen (standard on all Maggies) was to moderate this effect!

Cheers

[ozplane]

Thanks JDK, it all sounds right. I knew the answer was "out there somewhere"!

[Hairyplane]

Bang on the money!

When the Hawk (drooooool!) was developed into the Maggie, there were a number of improvements in order to make it a more practical and durable trainer.

The Hawk did have 2 identical cockpits. However, these were too small to squeeze a parachute- equipped pilot in.

Enlarging the cockpits also exacerbated the buffeting and draughts in the rear cockpit - the later Maggies (of which mine is actually 6th from last of 1200+ built) had the larger plain perspex screen.

My guess also is that it was intended to also protect the canvas blind flying hood folded behind the rear cockpit.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked ' why is the rear screen wrong?'. It is dead right of course.

In practice, the rear cockpit is a lot draughtier than the front but is a lot roomier. My front seaters often wax lyrical about the snug, cosy, superb, unobstructed fighter-like seating position in the front (Takatakatak!)

CofG dictates that I fly/ display it solo from the front but I do prefer the rear cockpit for the above reason.

An absolute joy of a flying machine - I love it to death. Isn't it such a pity that they are as rare as hens teeth in airworthy conditon?

HP

[Hairyplane]

My dear friend Fredric Lagerquist of the Swedish EAA to whom I owe so much for researching the history of my Falcon during its time in Sweden, 1936-1961, has provided the following information on a Gemini project. It was fast approaching completion during my visit to Barkaby (etc.) in the Falcon in 02.

Here is the update -


Hi!

It is indeed correct that SE-AYM flew again last year. It atended the EAA rally at Barkarby in early June. I took some pictures of it andwill scan them tomorrow and send them to you.

Have a look at this caption - it is taken by Freddy Stenbom:

http://www.hobby.se/EAA/EAA-flygplan/SEAYM.jpg

I have been looking for an emailadress to Björn Esbjörnsson, but I havent found any. I looked in the logbook of SE-AYM at Barkers and noted flights made to Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia in the early 1950s by Björns father and Rune Glad. Rune is still around and living i Höllviken. In fact I belive that he was the one who collected the Gemini in the UK. BTW, Rune was also the pilot when the Gemini-prototype SE-BUY crashed at AB Jordbruksflygs own strip at Alunda on 11.11.53. He was quite badly injoured but took up flying again about a half a year later or so.


So! Another Miles machine takes to the air! Fascinating too that the guy who restored it is the son of the original owner who bought it new - same family for 51 years, rivalling the Spiller Messenger G-AKIN @ Sywell, in the Spiller family for a similar period.

We are trying to persuade the owner of the Gemini to come to G-VFWE.

Wouldn't that be great!

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

Cracking news, wouldn't it be great to have a Gemini meet at Abingdon this year?

I do believe there is one based there.

[Hairyplane]

Hi MOTF!!

The Abingdon Gemini is undoubtedly that of Sir John Allison. He used to keep it at Halton.

My Magister came from Adrian Brook @ Shoreham - it was replaced by - a Gemini!

The 3rd is Jim Buckinghams from a private strip near Bristol.

Wouldn't it be greeeeat to get 4 at G-VFWE?!

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

HP

Thanks for that, I figured it would be his. I see it buzzing about quite often.

Multiple Miles would be a great sight, I think I may have to get the camera out for that one :E

Can I cordially invite any owners of old aircraft to come and buzz me (legally of course) at the location below, PM me beforehand and I will get out in the garden and see what piccies I can take.

[RileyDove]

How about five? Gemini OO-RLD is based at Spanhoe Lodge ,Northants.

[Hairyplane]

You are right of course RD -

I was forgetting the ex-Guy Valvekens Gemini that 'came home' last year.

Can't wait to see it.

Do you know if it will be coming to G-VFWE?

HP

[RileyDove]

I will try and persuade them! I should say it's fairly likely to go.

[treadigraph]

Friend of mine tells me that a 1/48th scale Miles Falcon plastic kit will be released later this year... Mmmmmmmm!

Sorry no further info as yet - Hairyplane, do you know anything?

Hoping to get to VFWE - another excuse for a Nostalgia get together?

Cheers

Treadders

[Hairyplane]

Hi Treaders!

My Falcon is a much loved machine in Sweden and features in several Swedish language books. When I was there in 02 I bought a home grown resin and metal kit of my aeroplane c/w the military decals that it wore during WW2. I think it may have been smaller than 1/48th though...

Why am I not sure of the scale?

The bloke who crafted my exquisite museum quality 1/24th scale models of the Falcon and Maggie - absolutely breathtaking - decided that he wanted to make the kit up and still has it....

It was fairly accurate but with two too many exhaust pipes (Falcon 6 oooooooh..yes please!) and one too many seats! on the plus side - it had a shed load of tiny little metal bits including the cockpit frame, stick, rudder bar etc.

If you want museum quality 1/24th models - we are talking compass markings and tyre valves here - I paid a ridiculously low £600 each for them. They took 3 months each to make by Doug Bone - 86years old and with failing eyesight so be quick....

If you want to see them I'll bring them along to OW.

Prepare to say 'Wow!' when I open the boxes.

The Maggie has a polished metal cowl and...well....everything.

On the larger scale - I have been promised an airworthy 1/4 scale model of the Maggie by a bloke who is putting the finishing touches to ta 1/4 scale model of the Falcon!

Another friend is building a Falcon to a similar scale with a view to flying it at OW during the season.

Stand by for a giant B17 (16ft span I think), A B24 to a similar scale plus some big P47's and P51's in an OW display this season - not sure when.

Well - you did say 'model' !!

Please let me know about the forthcoming kit, lets hope it is 'right'. A pity I havent been approached to facilitate its creation - happy for any model maker to crawl all over it and stroke its curvaceous lines.

Phooooaaaar!

VBR

HP

[JDK]

I'm privilaged to call doug a friend. His son, Harry, is not a bad modeller himself, though Doug is in a league of his own. I know Doug has modelled most (all?) of the aircraft flown by Desmond Penrose - no mean list, and a lot of Old Warden based a/c.

Anyone after world class models, I endorse Haryplane's comments!

Not heard of the Falcon kit myself, but I'll see what I can find out.

Cheers
James K

[treadigraph]

Bit more - it's a resin kit and Czech... $33 - I'll gladly email a link to anyone who's interested, but after the weekend - I'm off to Wales in, blast, six hours time, and the link's at the office.

[atb1943]

Hallo everyone. At the beginning of the thread I threatened to post my all-time favourite photo of a Gemini, taken at White Waltham at the end of the fifties, beginning of the sixties. Then I lost it, and didn't have a site to post it on.

A rummage in the cellar proved positive, and a friend has posted it, so here it is. I'd love to hear something about 'KHY.

There was also debate about the Trainer G-AFBS, which I reckoned was owned by Dick Emery. I have found a list of movements at Blackbushe in which I show G-AITN (Dick Emery), which doesn't mean that FBS wasn't his, but certainly throws a new light on it. I believe I took the photo the day FBS cartwheeled on arrival at the 'Bushe.

I was also extremely pleased to talk on the phone this week to Stuart Marshall, an old spotter-friend, still Manager at Blackbushe, and still working on a history of the airfield.

All the best, from a snowy Frankfurt on the Main!

atb1943

http://www.flightsimulator.de/gallery/G-AKHY.jpg

http://www.flightsimulator.de/gallery/G-AFBS.jpg

[Hairyplane]

My birthday today.......!

THe gorgeous Nicky surprised me this worning with (yes....and that too - baaaaaaaaa!) a sepia-style painting of the Falcon produced from an old photo.

It depicts the Falcon in its pre-war air taxi livery, sitting on skis on a frozen lake.

I promise (OK I've promised before..) to get a selection of these wonderful old images onto this thread.

If any modellers want to reproduce the Falcon in any of its former guises I wll be glad to help.

Full flight risks as from April 1st - can't wait to get my @rse back into my wonderful old wooden machines again. An absolute priviledge which I will never take for granted.

Must dash - something smells really good in the kitchen!

HP

[atb1943]

Have a lovely day, Hairyplane! Hope you liked the old ads I sent (to OW)

cheers

atb:ok:

[Man-on-the-fence]

Happy Birthday HP

G-AFBS at Duxford today, she will look magnificent when shes on display

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/duxkey/maggieafbs.jpg

[Hairyplane]

A great party thank you.

51 years young.

Hi Atb - Thank you! When did you send them? I love old ads.

Hi MotF - Nice shot of the Maggie - I wonder what spares-holding they have? I wonder if they have a good set of airdraulic legs that will be wasted on a static (it will 'kneel down' on a regular basis unless they mod them anyway).

Wouldn't they let you behind the scenes? I blagged my way over a couple of years back.

Does anybody who is working on the aircraft read/ post on AH&N?? I would love to get involved in a discussion with them about the project.

WHo would I contact regarding any spares that they might have for my flier?

V1075 is still V1075 - didnt get round to changing it this winter but will endeavour to do it next.

It is on Permit Renewal currently and barring snags should be skybound on/ after April 1st.

Lets meet up and blow the winter cobwebs off?!

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

HP

Glad it was a good bash.

Not sure if anyone from the IWM bit of Duxford reads these pages (JDK may know) however there are quite a few Duxfordites at the Flypast Forum here (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=4)

I would have tried to blag a better photo had there been anyone to blag to, I'm not one for stepping over barriers just because no-one is looking. In any case there were quite a few youngsters about and I didn't want to set a bad example. :ok:

I guess you could make contact that way, I will do a bit of asking at my end.

Cobweb blowing sounds like fun, we must have a go at it. Shame about the serial, always nice to keep the twitchers thinking :E

[BeauMan]

HP - many happy returns for Saturday. :)

Do my eyes decieve me? V1075 ceasing to be V1075 next winter? Please say it ain't so, I just adore that yellow scheme... :{ Any thoughts on how you'll have her done instead?

[DamienB]

It's true, V1075 is changing identity. After extensive investigation aided by 14 pints of Guinness, we have found the true identity is in fact XH558. After a repaint and trimming a bit off the wingtips this Maggie will be returned to original condition.

Does anybody have some spare Olympus engines?

It's all true you know - I read it on the internet.

^^^^

Just up there in fact.

[Man-on-the-fence]

I'm off to buy a ticket

It could be me!!!!!!!

[JDK]

I've a few pics of the IWM Maggie without paint, earlier in the restoration. I'll see if we can get some loaded. HP - they are on the CD ROM I gave you on 17th Dec. You seemed somewhat busy (wonder why?) so you may've forgotten it!
Cheers

[Hairyplane]

Hi Beauman - Dont forget that I have promised you a ride this season.

If you trawl through this thread you will read all about the identity change of my aircraft.

V1075 was the 6th from last of over 1200 Magisters built. As a late aircraft it never wore its current all-over yellow pre-war scheme.

However, during the couse of one of its many accident rebuilds in the 50's it aquired the fuselage of N3788, an early 1938 machine.

Therefore, for historical accuracy, I plan to apply the marks that relate to the fuselage.

Conversely, little if anything remains of V1075 that ultimately became G-AKPF on demob. It will of course remain G-AKPF - we will simply take advantage of the CAA's 'relaxed' policy on military markings in order to effect the cosmetic change. This they have already agreed to - aren't they nice?!

The other option would be to get out the olive-drab, grind the surface off those horrible shiny cowlings to key the paint in, rip the spats off and get sploshing.....

Aaaaaaargh!

Hi JDK - many thanks for the pictures, I have such a nice collection of all sorts of stuff thanks to people like you. You have a ride promised too if you remember our discussion at OW!

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

The other option would be to get out the olive-drab, grind the surface off those horrible shiny cowlings to key the paint in, rip the spats off and get sploshing.....

Following on from our conversation the other week, bright yellow with spats is very nice thank you very much..:ok:

[Man-on-the-fence]

JDK

Get em up!!

Would love to see them.

[JDK]

Hi MOTF,
I've not got any way I've figured out to post the pics here. I'll see what I can do; or could I buzz some to you and you post 'em?

As regards DX 'lurkers' on PPrune; I'm sure there are some, but I've not clocked them.

Keep the yellow please! Or how about a Turkish or Irish scheme (just to mix it up a bit...)

I'm looking forward to that ride....

Cheers

James K

[Man-on-the-fence]

Hairyplane

Check your PM's

JDK
happy to host them for a bit, how many you got?
If you can size them down too 700 pixels wide and less than 70kb each that would be great.

[JDK]

I'll select 10 goodies and reformat them.

[BeauMan]

HP - Many thanks, I've not forgotten. Sitting here grinning at the prospect... :D

V1075's identity change, ah yes, of course! I've spent an enjoyable ninety minutes during my lunch hour (How on earth did I get away with that!?!?) trawling through and reminding myself. So having aquainted myself with the story again, I'm presuming the identity change is just a cosmetic one with 'V1075' replaced by 'N3788'?

Nice one HP, that should manage to confuse one or two spotters. I wonder whether any other forums might end up carrying news of a brand new Maggie having appeared at OW? Could be quite a wheeze... :E

One thing that today's trawl has impressed upon me though, is what an epic thread this is. And also how relaxed and lenient my boss is!! :ok:

BeauMan

[ozplane]

Here's a thought for Hairyplane. The Duxford Maggie isn't going to fly but it will be moved from the Conservation Hangar at some stage. Wouldn't it be nice if your aircraft could be photographed with G-AFBS at some stage (and indeed the others if it could be arranged). Worth a chat with the IWM folks?

[Hairyplane]

Hi Beauman - an epic thread indeed. My only disappointment is that I havent posted some of the wonderful old photos I have.

Maybe I should invite a boff over for a beer and a pie and we can really juice the thread up. MotF?? DamienB??

Words interest, photos fascinate!

Ho Ozplane - As ever, Im right up for anything. If they want me there I'll be there.

It would make a lovely picture for the magazines.

Shhhhh! I have been approached by a leading journo who wants to feature the Maggie and the Falcon this season - several pages on each.

If I told you who, I'd have to kill you.

HP

[JDK]

Well, as the Saucy Mr HP says, Pics fascinate, so here's a selection of G-AFBS, with many technical thanks to MOTF.

Fingers crossed:


http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie01.jpg

A British Thompson Houston widget. These guys later got involved in the early jet manufacture IIRC.


http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie02.jpg

An overall view of the a/c in November 2003

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie03.jpg

The firewall.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie04.jpg

The Mapcase awaiting its referbishment...


http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie05.jpg

The kid of suite of pictures you want when restoring an aircraft - in this case, actually correct for that machine!

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie06.jpg

The flappy things to go up and down with, with a side to side thingy at right.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie07.jpg

The items to moderate student landings...

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie08.jpg

A Gosport tube set - amazingly rare and expensive but required for a museum level restoration.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie09.jpg

Interior of the rear cockpit.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/JDKhawk/maggie10.jpg

Showing the level of work - fuel tank in the wing centre section, the aeromodel style woodwork on the wing training edge, the access cover for the rear fuselage interior which is the floor of the luggage locker is the object on the wing.

A superb job being done here.

Cheers
James

[Man-on-the-fence]

The following piccies are from HP's own collection, a magnifcent treasuretrove of all things G-AKPF and G-AEEG. Wonderful!!

First the Maggie. The numbers by the piccies will be used by HP to give us some history behind the pictures in a following post.

1.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Hawk/logbook.jpg

2.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Hawk/racing.jpg

3.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Hawk/foulsham61.jpg

4.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Hawk/towing.jpg


Now the Falcon, I hope I've got these in the right order.

5.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/Advert.jpg

6.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/AFN_Norrkoping.jpg

7.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/AFN.on.skis.jpg

8.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/enAFN.jpg

9.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/Tp7.F8Wing1.jpg

10.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/SE_AFN_Bromma_1944.jpg

11.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/Falcon/SE_AFN_Lympne_61_07_27.jpg

Thanks for letting me have a rummage through your files, it was good fun.

[Hairyplane]

Firstly JDK - thanks for the Duxford Maggie pics - an exquisite restoration which is the more the pity it isn't a flier.

Secondly - MotF - thanks for coming over last night and poring over the pile of papers and photos - of which these are just a tiny selection. Not all bad though - the Hook Norton Bitter followed by the side-splitting 'Kevin and Perry Go Large' (Bangin'!!) rounded off the evening nicely.

So -

Photo 1 - A fascinating logbook entry in respect of the work required to repair the Magister following a landing accident on May 22nd 1955. The new CofA was issued in September 56.
Read para 7 and try not to chuckle! Out of context or what?! Same broom but with several replacement handles and heads over the years!
Photo 2 - Not sure but probably the 1958 Kings Cup in which the aircraft came 3rd.
Photo 3 - Foulsham 1961.
Photo 4 - Just a couple of years later and already a wingless derelict hulk - probably taken at Barrards Hill, Hadleigh.
Photo 5 - A tantalising ad in The Aeroplane, June 1936.
Photo 6 - A wonderful photo which can be dated and placed exactly. It was taken at an event in Norkopping on May 23rd 1937. The Falcon - then SE-AFN - was entered for a navigational competition. Note the Swastika fluttering in the background! I have an original programme of the event, courtesy of my dear friend Fredric Lagerquist. Fred got hold of all these old Swedish pictures for me. The hangar survives - we reenacted the scene, alas not with the other aircraft in the picture - all long since dead.
Photo 7 - Operated as an air taxi and light freighter by Nordisk Aerotjanst and named 'Kolmarden', the aircraft flew on skis in the winter to take advantage of the thousands of lakes in Sweden. In March 1938 a tragedy occurred when the aircraft landed on a lake in Salen and hit a lady walking across the lake from market to home, killing her instantly...
Photo 8 - Probably taken in the same year, the younger guy is probably the pilot/ owner K E Sandberg who learned to fly in 1936 at Woodley, bought the aircraft, flew it to Sweden and then immediately began flying it for a living!
Photo 9 - My aircraft in Swedish military sevice at Barkaby, Stockholm having been impressed. It operated continously as a 'type 7 light transport' until a lack of spares caused it to be sold in 1944. Interestingly enough, when I flew the aircraft back to Barkaby in 02, I parked next to a Leapord Moth that was powered by the exact same engine that mine left the factory with in '36!
Photo 10 - Taken in the late 50's
Photo 11 - A prized photo, for it shows the Falcon at Lymne on July 27th 1961. The bird returns home! The Swedish Authorities decreed that old wooden planes were unsafe and could not fly in Swedish airspace any more until completely overhauled by the original manufacturers. An onerous task that Ake Laurell (still flying in Sweden to this day!) decided to explore. Alas, the cost was out of all proportion to the value of his beloved aircraft and it languished at Miles, Shoreham for a couple of years until sold - for ten quid it is rumoured!. I had the honour of re-unting Ake with his aircraft and took him for a flight. I'm sure I saw a tear in his eye (and that was well after my landing!)

Treasured aircraft that I am priviledged to be the temporary custodian of, fly and share with you.

Want to see more?! MotF has loads! You post em, I'll annotate them as best I can.

All the best

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

OWWWW I'm not your slave!!!! :E

Oh ok a few more then. Same rules as before.
1.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/falcon2/SE_AFNSywell64_06TD.jpg

2.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/falcon2/AFNLaurellSundbrolate50s.jpg

3.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/falcon2/AFN_Norrkoping_1937_38.jpg

4.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/falcon2/Tp7.F1Wing.jpg

5.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/04photo/HP/falcon2/SE_AFN_Sundbro_AL.jpg

And thats about all I have. Although a few hours with HP's files can easily remedy that.

[Hairyplane]

THanks MotF - I think that this thread is 'going large' !!

Photo 1 - Sywell June 1964 during restoration. The front fuselage was found to be oil soaked and in need of major reskinning.
Photo 2 - Ake Laurell, the owner from 55 -61. He flew it extensively throughout his ownership. This picture was probably taken in 1961 at his home strip. His handwriting is such that I cannot decipher the logbook entries. He looks just the same today - just a pair of specs added! He has a Bonanza today and will be around 78 years old.
Photo 3 - A very early photo, probably taken shortly after arrival in Sweden in its factory-fresh red fuz and tail, cream wings.
Photo 4 -1941 with the Swedish markings applied over the civil scheme. It didnt wear proper silver uniform until Barkaby.
Photo 5 - Late 50's/ early 60's. It looks quite ungainly with its trousers off. A clear shot of the earlier, lighter undercarriage, now with beefier Proctor components.

Phooooaaaar!

HP

[TD&H]

New Fuselage

Question for HP and others: Doesn't the aircraft registration stay with the fuselage? Fit new wings tail etc, to old fuse, still same reg, but fit old wings to new fuse, shouldn't there be a new reg? Not complaining just confuse(lage)d!

Any engineer say what is the legal thing now?

BTW, definitely like the suggested scheme on the other thread!

ATB H

[Man-on-the-fence]

TD&H

It all depends which airframe has a C of A, change the identity and you start from scratch.

[Hairyplane]

In the meantime I have researched the two guys who carried out the ghastly
deed :---

OBERLEUTNANT;-( RAF= Flt/Lt.) Harry Kurt Wappler who.s Heinkel 111 (serial
No2670) collided with barrage-balloon cables after a night attack on
Ellsmere port Fri.13th (unlucky!) Sept.1940 at 3.30am. He bailed-out, 3
other perished, A/C crashed at 32 Stow Park Avenue, Newport, S/Wales.


LEUTNANT:-(RAF= Pilot/Off.) HEINZ ("not 57") Schnabel shot-down in
Messerschmitt 109 (serial No1985) 10am.Thurs.Sept.5th. 1940 at Handen Farm,
Nr, Aldington. Kent. *--------*-it's interesting to note that almost to the
minute, OBERLEUTNANT:- Frans Von Werra, ( notorious as the only German
airman to escape ), was shot-down at Marden, Kent. This was depicted
in the film :- "THE ONE THAT GOT AWAY",-------rather ironical
!!!!!!!!--------- did'nt do him any good though,----he was killed in
Oct.1944. Perhaps WAPPLER & SCHNABLEL should thank their lucky stars that
they did'nt "make it".!!

The"culprits" met up in a converted hotel for prisoners-of-war at SHAP
WELLS, Cumberland & from there planned the escape for Sun, Nov.23rd.1941

The "Maggie" used was R1967 based at 15 EFTS. KINGSTOWN, north of CARLISLE,
they were fitted with "blind flying hoods" to the rear cockpits. ====
R1967 bore large No 29 on port & starb. cowlings ( I wonder if there are
any pictures of her around ? ).

You may like to print-out the above details to add to what I will
photo-copy, it should make a good item in your records.

Footnote:-
I have always been a bit dubious about the colour scheme of O/Ws. "Maggie",
as I never saw one with yellow rudder with serial No.'s. on it when in
wartime training scheme, ---- could it be wrong???

The above got posted prematurely - I was still working on it! Finger trouble....?

It is a cut and paste from an Email sent to me by my good friend Les 'Dusty' Miller regarding a Maggie that got nicked by 2 German POW's.

I'll post the rest of the story when I receive it.

Nearly 10,000 hits! A lot more to come I reckon. This thread contains some very interesting material indeed.

Plenty to read when the weather is as cr@ppy as this and we can't fly!

All the best

HP

[dde0apb]

Mention of Bob Mitchell's AFRZ Monarch - that had been AIDE at various times too, reminded me of some things I found in the attic recently. Including these two gems from the air races in 1957. Enjoy.


Adrian
http://www.beney.org.uk/personal/miles/images/AIDE-Insurance.jpg


http://www.beney.org.uk/personal/miles/images/AIDE-Insurance-CoverNote.jpg

[Ex Oggie]

Further to HPs' post, more can be found on the attempted escape in a Maggie here.............

http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm59.showMessage?topicID=38.topic

[Galdri]

Does anybody know where I could possibly find old pictures of my very own MMMMMMMMiles madness, Gemini G-AKEK? I'm sure there must be some out there, but finding them is the problem.

The A.J Jackson Collection has two photos of the aircraft that should be on it's way to me now, but what about other sources? Anyone of you fellow Miles nerds know anything?:8

[Hairyplane]

I havent looked up the definition of a 'nerd' but it does conjure up an image that I am confident very few subscribers to this thread will fit...

Anyway - welcome to Miles ownership.

You are clearly passionate enough about your aircraft project to spend many, many thousands of pounds more to get it flying that it will eventualy be worth. That indeed is the mark of a true enthusiast and for that I salute you. Does that enthusiasm and, to others a seemingly foolish financial commitment, make you a nerd too or simply an 'enthusiast'?

If anybody has anything on the aircraft it will most likely be Peter Amos of The Miles Collection. I guess you have already contacted him. If you are not a member then I recommend that you join immediately.

Have you posted on the FlyPast forum?

When I bought my Falcon it came with very little history and nothing relative to its early days. All it took was some dedication and the help of some fellow 'enthusiasts'. As you can see from my thread, now approaching 10,000 hits, there is a lot of interest out there.

I wish you luck with your project. I considered it myself but bought the Maggie instead.

Try to get to G-VFWE, I would very much like to meet you and introduce you to other MMMmmmiles owners, pilots and enthusiasts.

All the best

HP

[atb1943]

Hallo,

I've found a couple more Gemini photos that I'd like to share with you:

EI-BHJ at Shoreham yonks ago, possibly 1979

http://www.flightsimulator.de/aviationgallery/MilesEI-BHJ.jpg

'KHW at Norwich

http://www.flightsimulator.de/aviationgallery/Miles G-AKHW.jpg

and KHP probably at Biggin Hill

http://www.flightsimulator.de/aviationgallery/Miles G-AKHP.jpg

cheers

atb1943

The crest on 'KHW is of the City of Plymouth.

And here's Miles Student G-APLK taken at Blackbushe one typically wet Farnborough week, I believe Sept 1957...

http://www.flightsimulator.de/aviationgallery/Miles G-APLK.jpg

I notice dorsal strakes not seen before, and an eagle-like logo on the tail rather similar to Bamberg's Eagle...?

cheers

atb1943

[Airbedane]

Thanks for the flight in the Maggie today, Hairyplane - magic stuff!

\Ma*gis"ter\, n. Master; sir; -- a title of the Middle Ages, given to a person in authority, or to one having a license from a university to teach philosophy and the liberal arts.

[Man-on-the-fence]

So the Maggie is airborne again after its winter lay off. Excellent stuff.

[Hairyplane]

What Airbedane didn't say was that he did a beeeeeaaauuutiful slow roll in the thing, followed by a polished practice display.

MMMmmm!!!

Well...what else could we expect from the great man himself.

The last time the aircraft was aerobatted was by Brendan O'Brien down at Headcorn last Summer - only on that occasion I was sat in the front cockpit squealing like a kid on a roller coaster. Magic stuff.

Nicky and I flew it afterwards - all in all one of those 'great to be alive' days ( a joint agreement once we thawed out....!).

I am in discussions at the moment about the scheme change. It seems that whatever you do with the sandpaper, any previous markings will 'grin' through and will be visible always, albeit at acute angles.

With a metal aircraft all you need do is take it back to the shiny stuff. However, the Maggie is made of fabric covered plywood.

I wonder if there is a filler primer that would do the trick? It has to be an immaculate job otherwise it stays as V1075, at least for the foreseeable future.

Now looking forward to getting the Falcon out after the winter layoff - CofA due soon.

HP

[Man-on-the-fence]

What Airbedane didn't say was that he did a beeeeeaaauuutiful slow roll in the thing, followed by a polished practice display.

How big was the grin on his face afterwards? :E

[treadigraph]

I'll bet big enough to provide additional lift!

[dde0apb]

Any idea which days you wonderful Miles owners are likely to be going to Abingdon? The last few years I have managed to be there on the day when most of you were not.....

best to all of you

Adrian

P.S. Beginnings of more Miles web pages at www.beney.org.uk/personal/miles/wpb.php

[Hairyplane]

As last year, the Maggie and Falcon should be there throughout although I know that a number of owners only come for a day.

B there or B square!

HP

[Airbedane]

I pondered this one for a few seconds, then thought - 'He won't tell you himself, so what the heck!'..................

We've been teaching Haiyplane how to be a fighter pilot this week, and he's been doing remarkably well - 'Spring Chicken' to $hitehawk' in three trips! The grin on his face was a sight to be seen, particularly after the last formation display. Take a look at:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126999

In the seventh picture from the top, which shows a tailchase, Hairy is in his Maggie on the left of the picture, nicely tucked in behind the Tiger.

Well done old friend and thanks for the use of your machines at Old Warden this week, you are a very generous man.

Airbedane

Something else he won't tell you - he's presenting the prizes at the British Model Flying Association's Indoor Scale Championships at Nottingham University next Sunday (25th April). Be there, it's an enjoyable day with museum class scale models in free flight in the sports hall.

[Conc]

dde0apb

The Hawk Speed Six is booked in for G-VFWE, see you there

[Hairyplane]

Thank you Airbedane for the best weeks flying ever.

Imagine if you will guys the image of two Maggies wheeling around chasing each others tails - dogfighting in another name but serious training nevetheless.

Staying on the tail of another aircraft and maintaining separation during, shall we say 'spirited' manouvering (you sure have the measure of the Maggie AB!), is a fantastic way in which to sharpen your stick and rudder skills. You cant help but imagine what it was like when the guy behind you have guns and wanted to kill you - the adrenalin pumps enough when you are doing it for fun!

A pleasure indeed to watch my aircraft being displayed by the professionals - delighted to be invited to do it myself.

04 promises to be a wonderful season at Old Warden - the new development there is just great, the catering has improved beyond all recognition.

I reckon we'll bust all previous attendance records this year.

On the acquisition front....a seriously good chance of my acquiring a third vintage aircraft in 05 (maybe sooner if something I really fancy crops up) - maybe a Storch if I can find one but maybe another Miles type if something that really blows my frock up is offered.

A collection of several Miles types would be fantastic and also a nice legacy to pass on (beats the park bench any day!) - the dream may just become a reality......

Looking forward to the Indoor Models at Nottingham Uni Sports Hall on Sunday. These creations have to be seen to be believed.

Rumour has it that we are going to see a small electric powered Messerschmitt Gigant - all 6 motors powered and also timed.

The intention is to put it down, walk away, it then starts up all by itself, takes off, shuts down and lands - all free flight!

This event is a must - a 'cheap as chips' day out.

B there or B square.

HP

[Airbedane]

You're more than welcome, Hairy, but remember, you only get out what you put in......so we still owe you some!

Stop Press: Sir John Allison's Gemini is now at Old Warden, and hopefully should join us in the next airshow on 15th May.

A

[JDK]

Do the engines and props stay with the a/c throughout the flights now? ;)

[dde0apb]

Thought you'd all enjoy this (it's a Monarch)

http://www.beney.org.uk/personal/miles/images/Monarch-ad1.jpg

[dde0apb]

There's a great series of pictures on the Flyer Magazine forum at http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6113&start=45 including some Miles types, from the Great Vintage Fly-in at Abingdon last weekend

Adrian

[ozplane]

Quick query re the G-VFWE. Did you manage to break your record of 9 Miles types in one place? I was there on Saturday in my Airtourer and there were 4 of us which is the best we've had for some years and I just wondered how you got on. Isn't the Hawk restoration absolutely beautiful, indeed all of the Miles types are a credit to their owners and operators.

[Hairyplane]

Nothing like I'm afraid. I cant understand why Sunday was so quiet on such a wonderful day. I dont know the sums but heard that only 300 or so aircraft turned up out of 700 pre-booked.

Thank you for your kind words on the aircraft. My Magister & Falcon consume large quantities of cash to keep flying - you really have to have a sense of humour when the bills arrive...

Lets keep our fingers crossed for a record next year.

VBR

HP

[atb1943]

Hallo Miles people!

Next year came and went.

Anything special on the cards for 2006?

I spoke to a contact at THK last year about Turkish production of Hawk Trainers, but it was all by telephone and not particularly revealing. It seems there are none left even in museums. Did seem however to confirm that for some reason they were built with materials supplied by Germany.

Happy Landings all!

atb

[Stampe]

The big event for Miles enthusiasts has to be the great vintage weekend at Keevil may 26-29th this year.Lets hope the weather is better than Hullavington last year.I am booked to fly one of hairyplanes collection tothis event ,quite the best event of the year in my opinion.See you there hopefully.:ok: