WestJet

[saudipc-9]

OK WestJet guys and gals. Let's hear the real story. How is the company to work for, Pro's and Con's vs Air Canada etc
Cheers

[Panama Jack]

Well heck, I'm not a Westjeter but here is one comparison. Westjet actively hiring. Air Canada isn't.

[canadair]

I too am not there, but seriously thinking about trying.
I think they look great,
but any truth to the rumour that while the mins are now 4000 the reference
requirements are now 3 internal references, one of which must have flown
with you at some point?!!!
can any westjet guys confirm please?
anyway, looks like great fun,
Dubai looks worse every day!

[CaptW5]

Have been with them for a long time. Pretty good to work for so far. Can't compare conditions with AC, as I haven't worked there; but it is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.
They did indeed lower the hours requirement to 4000, but I hadn't heard about the change in policy regarding internal recommendations. Starting pay is higher than AC, and average time to the left seat is 18-24 months. Start on either -200 or -700.Everybody is based in Calgary.
Very large number of pilots commutes, but they are starting to make it harder. One of the best issues used to be scheduling/rostering; but that is coming under increased criticism.
Basepay is fairly low; but augmented by profitsharing, ESP (employee stockpurchase plan) and stockoptions. Stockprice has taken a bit of a dive the last month, but company is profitable and still expanding.

[jkden]

Pretty good company to work for. Company morale is very good for the most part. Salary a bit lower than competitors. Requirements were lowered to 4,000 hrs, but understand competition is still quite high. This week a pilot stated they have about 10,000 active resumes on file for pilots who are applying. Still usually require 3 internal references to be considered - although there have been a couple without references who were hired according to a few pilots with WestJet. Good luck!

[Willie Everlearn]

saudipc-9

If you're Canadian, the best advice I could give you is, don't bother looking for a flying job in Canada. You'd be wasting your time.

Taxation is a whole other conversation but that alone should discourage you from returning to the Socialist Republic of Canada.

Gulf Air are starting a new operation in Abu Dhabi with B767-300s. It would be worthwhile chasing that than wasting your time with West Jet or any of the other players back here.

Check out Emirates website for pilot specs. They're recruiting. And Dubai is pretty cool.

Good luck and Masalama

Willie :D

[cormacward]

"Starting pay is higher than AC, and average time to the left seat is 18-24 months"

I am a relief pilot on the B747-400 for air Canada. Starting pay at West jet is not higher than Air Canada and that is not including the 1K a month I bring home in perdiums!

18-24 months is the time to command over the last two years, but who is to say what it will be over the next two years! I could have been a CRJ Captain after a year if I had the notion. (Which I didn't) CRJ Capt. pay is about 90K a year I think! I am not sure of the latest WJ Capt. Pay but I do know that it is around the 100k mark! That being said 4 year pay on the B747 as a R/P is Min 100K and usually about 110K. WJ pilots work 14-18 days month and I have averaged 10 over the last two years.

Like the gentleman from WJ said it is like comparing apples to oranges. West jet is a great company to work for! That being said it is an airline in its infancy and has a long road ahead of it! I wish them all the success and I believe they will have a market for about 50 A/c domestically. But make no mistake about it! They work hard for there money and the airline have yet to deal with having a pilots union! The company has hired ex-C3/Royal pilots as of late and they will not be happy for long at the current wage structure and working conditions! I have about 10 friends who fly for WJ and they enjoy the job! 2 of them would never admit it but they would all rather fly for Air Canada. The rest have already told me they would rather be at AC.

Either company is just a job! If I was a self made millionaire then I would still rather be at AC! If for nothing else ...the life it provides! Days off......variety of a/c, destinations.....etc!

Peace.....
Carnie

[muzzy]

Somehow I fail to see how working only 10 days a month for 110k is a badge of honour during these times when airlines are having trouble turning a profit. I too would like to work for AC but these kind of wages and schedules are what's getting the airlines in trouble re: "United Airlines"
For some reason Air Canada employees think that the company and themselves are bulletproof.
I think that there may soon be a wake up call.

Air Canada and its employees should lose the arrogance!!

[saudipc-9]

Muzzy,
I think your being a little unfair with the wages issue. The contracts that United/Delta have would have cormacward earning $200'000 or more. AC doesn't pay nearly that much.
However I will agree that AC needs to work on it's public image and service attitude. WestJet is fun to fly on and the service is nice. Not to mention that Westjet's FA's are good looking and AC's are all grandmother's.:p

[battraveller]

How much is the AC and WJ starting pay?

[wde]

Boo Hoo WJ'ers...

Your flight attendants make bubkus...
Your ticket agents make min wage..
And your pilots clean the garbage from the paying public..

WJ has been very successful in brainwashing the public as to their "low fares" but if you shop around you can get similar fares with AC without having to fly through YWG

Profit sharing is great, but it is on the backs of the working stiffs on the ramp/at the gates.

WJ has also had no burden of maintaining non-profitable route structures..Grand Prairie, ABis one example...WJ goes is, killls the market for AC, then leaves because they can't make any money..

Sounds like the spoiled brats of Calgary want their cake and want to eat it too...

Their day of reckoning is coming...Wake up Clive, there will be a union there one day...

End of Rant

[Chuck Ellsworth]

AAHHH yes:

And with a union all the slack ass self important minimum ability pilots will be able to earn top pay for minimum ability and zero work ethics.

If there is anything in aviation that I hold in contempt it is self important minimum skills pilots......Dressed like third world Generals and prancing around like peacocks.

Cat Driver

[Mulligan]

Grief! Are we predictable or what!!

[bearcat88]

Now now girls! Straighten out your knickers and get on with it. These cat fights get old pretty quick.
88

[Always Moving]

And it is worse in the third world countries!.
Any ways I think A lot of people are getting paid TOO much.
Let's face it. It does not take a genius to fly a plane, believe me I am a flight instructor.
I do not think it is right for a person to get paid 100.000$ a year for driving a plane and another person in the same company doing the same job gets paid half.
If it is the SAME job I do not give a fuxx how many years you have been with the airline, same job accomplish same pay.
And notice I said SAME!
I have seen these Egos in a different airline, in a different country, same Kind of Monopoly, same overspending.
Let's face it what kind of idiots are managing Air Canada if they have the market for themselve(with minor competition) for so many years!
And what kind of pilot are flying there that they see there airline going to the ground and do not say or do something!

[WRC]

Hey WDE, looks like that day of reckoning you were talking about has come, but to Air Canada! 4Q results.

Kickin' your butts is so much fun becouse its so deserving!

Kidding aside, AC and WJ are very different companys and they both do some things very well.

I love working at WestJet for the friendly hassle free work envirnment. I like the short legs and team envirnment.

Others like the long haul stuff and stability (well, it was stable) of Air Canada.

[Panama Jack]

C'mon guys.

And by the way Chuck-- I'm VERY disappointed in you. Minimum skills pilots? What are minimum skills? Please do enlighten me on what level of skills you see as appropriate. Self important? I see bush and bomber types swagger too. The third world General uniforms? Guess what, it comes with the job and that is what the public likes. Most pax don't like seeing a pilot with a worn pair of jeans, cowboy boots and logger shirt stapping a 767 to his butt. A lot of guys don't like the uniform, but lets face it, there is tradition and some purpose behind it, just like many other traditions in aviation. I think if we could all wear what we want-- some folks would come to work not even wearing pants. Prancing like a peacock? Don't know-- the weight of my flightback with all the manuals the Company makes me take is so heavy I have trouble prancing. Hey-- but my jacket with 18 gold bars hides the fact that one arm has been stretched longer than the other so that's really great!

It is disappointing to see all of us pilots trying to critique the other camp. Allow me to boil it down to common immaturity. Lets leave the competing to our bosses and marketing departments. I am a professional pilot and I fly a turboprop. Chuck, you are a professional pilot and flew a Canso and had a Flight Training School. WRC, you are a professional pilot and fly blue Boeings. I have a lot of respect for the bush/bomber types and also for my colleagues at Westjet. We all take pride in what we do and I am happy when you guys do well also.

In the end, we all have more in common than we have differences. :}

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Panama Jack:

My comment was meant to cover the " few" slack ass peacocks that "do" inhabit our industry.

Of coures most of us are professionals and conduct ourselves accordingly. :D

Chuck:

[Panama Jack]

Sure Chuck, I'll buy into that arguement.

There is some dead wood in every facet of life, however, most people I encounter in the industry are pros. We've worked hard towards our goals and were probably chosen out of a very selective process. I know that is the way at my company, Westjet, and I know the bomber/bush folks have stacks of resumes in their filing cabinets also.

We sometimes fall victims to generalization-- like saying "I hate Air Canada (or Westjet) pilots" because there are two or three which we've had bad personal experiences with (it is, of course, inevitable). Not unlike saying "I hate black or Chinese people" because one has had a bad experience with one or two of that race is unfair to all and can easily open one up to being ostracized and negatively labeled.

I hope things work out for all of us regardless of the uniform we might wear or the planes we fly. Remember, flying is only a profession (sometimes even a love). But above that, we all have bills to pay and families to take care of. As is often said "it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."

Have a great day Chuck! Hope you're having a good winter on the Island. :D

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Panama:

Let me elaborate further.

We are a group unlike any other in the history of mankind ( person kind. :D )

The bond between aviators and those who support us, mechanics and everyone else in aviation, is worldwide and knows no borders, either geographical nor racial.

One of the most bitter and sad days for me in years was when I went to the car to get warm while working on a PBY in Duxford England and I turned on the radio to hear the news that Canada 3000 had gone under.

The first thought I had was, I'll never again share the bonds of flying in the cockpit of a Canada 3000 airplane with my friends across the North Atantic ever again. And then the thought what will all those people do now to support their families?

Yeh we are a breed apart.

Cat Driver:

[qnc3guy]

Hi Chuck;

How much "time between the FAF and DH inverted" will I need to become a skilled pilot anyways?

Just an inside joke my friend. I see you have not lost any of your fire in all these years.

As far as C3 goes... yes I will always miss that job. But life goes on and one constant we can all count on in this business is change. Will be very interesting to see how the industry looks in the coming few years.

See you around the patch!

[Panama Jack]

You bet Chuck,

Like those who say they will never forget where they were, what they were doing and what the weather was like when they heard that JFK was shot, I will similarly never forget when I heard the news of C-3's demise. My first reaction was "huh?!?!?" and my second was "it could have been me too." You see, only a few months before that I was trying so hard to jump ship to C-3 because I thought that C-3 would outlive my company (I'm still working, although probably not for long). I was actually upset that they weren't calling me! I similarily knew another pilot who's friends at C-3 were (for the third time) prompting only weeks before it ceased operations-- "you sure you don't want to come over-- this may be your last chance!" And another colleague had interviewed, been accepted, and was waiting for his class date when they went Tango Uniform. I am friends with one ex-C-3 pilot who has left aviation completely.

No doubt about it, those guys have been living through bitter times and more of us are about to join them. :(

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hey there is always the chance that things will be better soon.

My best and most interesting flying years were the last ten.

One day my cell phone rang and a strange voice said we need a pilot in Harrare Zimbawbe and will pay you xxxx, I had the Amphib Charter business that was slowly going into the sewer along with the rest of British Columbia. So without any hesitation I said yes.

Since then I have flown in over forty countries and been locked up in three different countries, the Don Jail in Toronto was paradise compared to some foreign lock ups.:D :D

The is always tomorrow.

Chuck.

[Panama Jack]

"One day my cell phone rang and a strange voice said we need a pilot in Harrare Zimbawbe and will pay you xxxx"


he he he. Flying in different countries is interesting and rewarding, isn't it? Did some of that myself, but for me it was in Latin America. I admit though I would have been hesitant if "One day my cell phone rang and a strange voice said we need a pilot in South America and will pay you xxxx" :O

[pigboat]

PJ, I have a good friend who use to be in the photo survey business. He was the company's 'South American expert' and spent a lot of time there, mostly Columbia and Venezula. Loved it. Never got hassled once...well once the Brazilian AF came up to take a look at him after he kinda strayed outta Uruguayan airspace at FL 410. ;)

[Panama Jack]

Honestly pigboat,

Sometimes I wonder why I came back to Canada. Down there I had always had money and a good standard of living. I was "El Comandante" and beautiful women fell to my feet as I walked through crowds (ok, that last part was a little exagerated) :}

[B767300ER]

Okay, gents, how about a real topic?

Like, WHO is going to win the CUP?

Stars, Canucks, Blues, Wings?

I'd LOVE to see Vancounver win it all, as long as it's not the DEAD Wings!

Cheers,

Ed "Blackhawks Rule":D

[Slapshot]

Boo Hoo WJ'ers...

Your flight attendants make bubkus...

Tell that to the F/A's that own their own homes and have the $500,000 portfolio's...

Your ticket agents make min wage..

Nope, sorry on that one WDE. 90% of the industry average in salary + Profit Sharing+ the Employee Share Purchase Plan. See $500,000 portfolio's and owning their own home above.

And your pilots clean the garbage from the paying public..

Not quite. However I have no problem helping in the back crossing a seatbelt or two, making eye contact with the people who pay my salary and picking up a newspaper or empty bottle.

Do you have trouble climbing off your wallet, crawling out of the cockpit and checking out the cabin?

WJ has been very successful in brainwashing the public as to their "low fares" but if you shop around you can get similar fares with AC without having to fly through YWG

Hmmmm, I guess you haven't heard of our Non-Stop flights? YYC - YYZ,YHM,YOW,YXU. YEG - YYZ,YOW,YHM. YVR - YYZ.

Profit sharing is great, but it is on the backs of the working stiffs on the ramp/at the gates.

The "Stiffs" at the gates and on the ramp in Calgary are all elligable and do recieve Profit Share.

WJ has also had no burden of maintaining non-profitable route structures..Grand Prairie, ABis one example...WJ goes is, killls the market for AC, then leaves because they can't make any money..

Enlighten me. Leaves? We are still in Grande Praire, several times a day in point of fact. With very nice loads thank you very much. You are correct in one respect however, if we can't make money on the route we won't stick around. We are not running a charity. Use it, or lose it.

Sounds like the spoiled brats of Calgary want their cake and want to eat it too...

Really don't know what you are talking about here... Off your meds I suppose...

Their day of reckoning is coming...Wake up Clive, there will be a union there one day...

We have an in-house association, and we as a Pilot group have done very well by it.

All the employee's are represented by PACT our in-house association. They have done very well also.

I'm thinking someone has a serious case of sour grapes and needs to "lighten up"...

End of Rant

End of rebuttal.

[Ace McKool]

It's been said before:

Some people don't get it, and that's a good thing...

[YYC F/A]

I flew for WestJet as a F/A for almost a year, until leaving late last year.

There is no doubt that WJ offers a unique product in the Canadian air industry, and their blend of fun and low fares is a hit with the flying public.

That said, it was not always all roses for the employees.

While the Pilot group is generally well looked after (financially and otherwise), the picture for F/a's, CSA's and Res Staff is quite different.

There is no doubt that some of the 'day oner' f/a's, csa's etc have done well out of the employee stock purchase scheme, the reality is that for F/A's who started in the last couple of years, it's been a tough slog financially. Out of my training class of some 60 Flight Attendants, about 80% of us had to have a second job to make ends meet. We had to work part time for 6 months before getting full time status - I wasn't able to live off $800 - $900 CDN a month, so I racked up a hefty credit card debt. Even on Full time status, the finances were tight.

Res Agents fare even worse. 'Super Sales Agents' are hired initially with a minimum guarantee of just a few hours of work a week. It can be several months before 'part time' status, let alone 'full time' status, which makes it hard for employees who are entering the profession and viewing this as a career.

While Profit Share and Employee Stock Purchase plans are important part of the overall compensation package, the reality for me was thus:

I couldn't buy groceries and pay my monthly bills with a (variable) bi annual profit share check.

The Employee Share Purchase plan DID allow me to work towards some longer term savings, but the Share prices have (finally) levelled out. F/A's starting in the last few years, or today, are NOT going to be making the kind of money to buy 1/2 million dollar homes. It's also pertinent to note that when finances are so tight to begin with, a lot of employees found it tough to take a 10 or 20% deduction from pay to pay into the ESP in the first place.

I am not 'WestJet Bashing' here. Many close friends continue to fly there, and enjoy their jobs. But I did want to try and present a more 'balanced' picture as to the situation for the non-pilot and non-management employee groups.

[PartTimePilot]

Slightly off the thread as it's become, but a quick question for the WestJest pilots...

In the winter we travel a lot from the UK to YVR and then end up driving the 4/5 hours to CYLW (Kelowna) and Big White Ski Resort. If Kelowna is out in fog (not too unusual in the winter based on the VOR/NDB approaches) flights tend to be cancelled and last minute bookings are not possible. We are two UK pilots arriving in YVR on 'airline standby' tickets and therefore can't book ahead!

I know that Kelowna was due to get an ILS installed at the end of last year, but can't find anything to say it was/is. If anyone could confirm the ILS is now installed and operational we'll be on WestJet in April!


Thanks
PTP

[Jamesel]

PTP
Yup, Kelowna has an ILS as of mid February, minima of 251' and 1 sm viz, so there is a much increased chance of getting in.:cool:

[PartTimePilot]

Thanks Jamesel, that's good news about the ILS. Will save us the 5 hour drive there and back in April...

PTP