Group Flying and the Yak-52

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Hello :p

I am starting up a Yak-52 group and am looking for some advice from those of you with experience of either the Yak or running a flying group. There will hopefully be four of us in the group, one other who is a good freind of mine and two as yet unknowns.

I really could do with some good advise on the legal side, how to claim back the VAT!:eek:, whether or not I should hike up the monthly cost or add it onto the hourly rate, what are the realistic costs for hangarage, insurance, fuel, oil, maintanence, unseen disasters etc etc.

Thank you all very much in advance.

Cheers.:)

[Lowtimer]

A lot of those decisions depend on the circumstances and inclinations of you and your pals. But I would say that four is a bit small for a Yak-52 syndicate if you want to keep the aeroplane properly utilised - the more it is used the cheaper it will be to run. Eight or even more syndicate members can be perfectly easy to cope with providing you don't go off touring _every_ weekend - and if you did, you'd probably be getting a different aeroplane.

We had some discussion on Yak running costs a short while ago: this will, I hope, take you there (but I haven't tried this trick before so if it doesn't work just do a search on "Yak" and "Lowtimer" and you will find it quickly enough.
[URL=http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69599]

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Thanks Lowtimer.

Interesting link - the diffreence in the running costs is quite amazing - what a gret a/c tho - when you can choose to cruise at 200 or 250!

Personally I am getting primarily it as an aerobatic platform. :D

[Lowtimer]

185,

If aerobatics is your thing then you can definitely support a larger membership - with eight members I've never seen more than four of us turning up without pre-booking on any given day, even the PPRUNE fly-in day at Sywell, where we're based, and three counts as "busy". Obviously we have a pre-booking system for when people want to go away all day, or overnight, but I've never not been able to book a day I wanted.

On a decent day it's quite possible for four or five people to have their fill of local aerobatic flights, and the engine never cools down - which is ideal for the aeroplane, and means you have lots of helping hands getting the beast out, putting her away, and wiping of the oil afterwards :-)

See your private messages, by the way.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

185 LBS -

That's kilometers per hour, not knots, so you can about halve it. he Yak is not an economical cruiser - but that is not its forte ;~)

The Yak is a wonderful aeroplane to fly, and if there was another group of 8 - 10 being formed at Barton I'd join (our group of 8 split up when someone - not me! landed gear-up). That was just what precipitaed the split - the real reason was lack of utilisation - only 2 of us were flying it regularly. But wew couldn't find any new members - it seems most Barton pilots are mebers of the flat earth society and prefer straight and level in boring Cessnas and Pipers. Pity.

Allowed engine life is a problem, but the engines are very cheap and superbly engineered. I think it's 500 hours max under CAA rules (and now all Yaks have to be 'G' reg) and then a new engine. And the old one is scrap, which is ludicrous. Out of interest I know someone who took a 1500 hour-old M14P (old rules) to bits just out of interest. There was no discernable wear - even the machining marks on the cylinder bores were clear as the day the engine had been made.

SSD

[SATCO Biggin]

Shaggy..

My understanding is that the M-14P engine life is good for 750 hours when brand new out of the factory. Then it can be overhauled three times with 500 hours between each overhaul, giving a grand total of 2250 hours before it is trashed.

Given the current market value of an overhauled M-14P, plus fitting and VAT, you are looking at something like £25 per hour depreciation. As you will know from experience although that sounds a bit high you do get an awful lot of engine for your money!!

Sorry to hear that you lost your Yak through an accident. Ours is currently undergoing conversion to UK Permit and a new (factory overhauled engine). A rather expensive Christmas present to myself.

Regards

Mad
(G-CBRL):D

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Thanks for that. Can anyone else confirm M14P hours of life??

SSD

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Thanks guys:)

Lowtimer, I have sent you a reply to your private message bit!

I was hoping to base the a/c around the Gransden / Henlow / Fowlmere / Duxford / Top Farm area. I was looking for four people but I guess that could be expanded if the correct people are available. That would be nice as it would reduce the initial purchase cost per person from the current 12.5k and I'm all for that!!!!:cool:

Cheers.

[Wide-Body]

SSD

The Mad controller is spot on

Regards

Wide

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

:D

Anyone else out there with a Yak group who can furnish me with some pearls of wisdom!!?;)

How about all you chaps and chap'ess' at North Wield? Is anyone looking for another member?

Or is there anone wanting to join a new group?

Cheers and Happy Christmas:)

[Ludwig]

Ballast, I have no experience of running a Yak Group, although I do have experience of running a groupette owning Pitts (or is the plural Pittis or perhaps Pittsi) Anyway up, my one pearl of wisdom is never to have more bums than seats otherwise if you want to go somewhere as a group, like a competetion, it is a real aggro driving or hiring a/c.

Also, given that the attraction of a large group is often the lower entry price, I would be concerned that some people so attracted may not be good for the dosh if you had an unforseen cash requirement. Small is better and undoubtedly the best syndicate is a syndicate of one! I had asyndicate of 2 and when the chips were down the other chap bounced cheques all over the show - you never can tell.

Aviation is full of people whose aspirations exceed their ability to pay for it!

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Hi Ludwig

Thanks for the advice. Ideally I would be wealthy enough to be able to pay for / justify sole ownership of the a/c, the second option is then to have a group made up of perple who you know very well. So I suppose I am currently persuing the third option!! However, even the third option should yeild the desired effect!

Cheers

J.