Michael, victim of the 9'11 phobia

[Fonck]

Michael, a Virgin F/A, is now fighting for 7 months against the security phobia, in the US.
As it is a very complicated one, and to make a long story short: he is facing "terrorist charges" as he simply discovered a bomb threat in the a/c toilets on a flight from LHR to the US !

Please, help your collegue by signing the petition on his website

www.michaelphillippe.com (http://www.michaelphillippe.com)

Unfortunately, not all the pages are available in english, yet. He's working on it...

Thanks for your help

Fonck.

[pilotwolf]

The link doesn't appear to work....

[christep]

It need one less l... try this

www.michaelphilippe.com (http://www.michaelphilippe.com)

[TAM PAX]

Why are none of the 'Big Wigs' from Virgin supporting him then ???

[OzzieO]

Tam Pax what makes you think they aren't supporting him??

[TAM PAX]

Click on the link, then 2 the names of people supporting him and their companies ! where is Branson ??? he is normally the 1st in line for publicity.

[Fonck]

My mistake !

I'm so sorry...It needs only one L !
Michael just sent me an email this morning, thanks to you for updating his URL
He really needs our support.

If you can speak a little frog, goto

radiocockpit (http://www.radiocockpit.org)

Cheers,
Fonck.

[OzzieO]

Tam Pax I think you will find that the only reason Mr Branson and Virgin haven't stepped into help is because they have probably been advised not to by there legal department.

You see Virgin is the injured party in all of this and as Michael is an employee there could be a conflict of interest.

In case your thinking "this guy is talking out of his ****" I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I can't say too much on here at the moment because I am taking legal action against a certain government.

I have been in contact with Michaels legal repersentatives in France to see if there is any assistance I can offer them.

Personally speaking and this is based on my own experience I think he needs to go to every newspaper and media outlet he can. I'm not sure a petition is the way forward. Media exposure would bring this whole ridiculous sham out into the open and expose the authorities for the idiots they are!

But thats just my point of view!!!

[TAM PAX]

How do you know he is not guilty ?

[OzzieO]

I don't!! I don't even know the guy. BUT have you tried asking yourself WHY? WHY would he want to do it?

It doesn't make sense to me.

[Fonck]

A couple of criminals were found innocent, beyond the pond...

By this time, President Chirac is managing the dossier. Can you imagine the French President defending a criminal ?

If you were in the same position, you should be very happy to have such a support.

[MaxMet]

I do not want to change the point of this thread.
I am sorry Fonck but I can imagine a French President defending criminals. Many have done so in the past. And as for Chirac handling the dossier, God help Micheal!

I agree with NEUTRAL99 and TAM PAX. How can you ask anyone to sign a petition with out all the evidence and only one side of the story. That is why the judicial system exists to give both sides their say and present their evidence.
The only way for Micheal to prove his innocence and clear his name is to go through with the correct procedures. And if he is innocent and has all the relevant evidence to prove so then he will be found not Guilty.
Fonck you do not say whether Virgin carried out their own investigation into the incident.

[Fonck]

Dear MaxMet,

I don't have the answer.

The only thing we know, is that Michael wrote a letter to Sir Branson, and unfortunately didn't recieve any response. Exept a letter from Virgin's top managment saying the airline will stay out of this situation of conflict.
We can understand that. Virgin operates many transatlantic routes, and don't have to take part in the debate.

Michael's story reminds me the case of these British planespotters in Greece, last summer.

[Flying.Coyote]

Michael was arrested 2 month after the incident...
How was the FBI aware of him flying back to the states ? A phone call to Virgin planning may be ?

Why was he arrested in the States ? The flight diverted to Iceland, the situation was investigated then everybody continued the flight.

Why don't we have any insight from the Virgin people ? Where are you guys ? Nobody to tell your side of the story ?

I'd like to have the truth out of this as well and we only have Michael version, but I still wonder why he is being judged in the States. Can't understand that, that's why I signed the petition.

[Alty Meter]

I don't know anything about this, but I've heard some talk from Virgin guys. Maybe it's no coincidence there's not lots of support from Virgin at any level, top or bottom.
Is it true that in his short time with the company Michael single-handedly and wth no witnesses put out two fires, one in the galley and one in a toilet?
Either he's been unlucky and a hero, or ..................... not? :confused:

It's stupid to sign petitions alleging "injustice" when you don't know the facts and don't know if it is injusice.

[OzzieO]

Alty Meter interesting post. However after 16 years of flying I have come to the conclusion that what crew don't know they make up.

If you read my earlier posting regarding the silence of the Virgin management in Michaels case you'll see that as a damaged party they cannot legally get involved in all of this.

[Flying Lawyer]

OzzieO
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "as a damaged party (Virgin) cannot legally get involved in all of this."
If what you mean by "involved" is trying to influence decisions of the FBI or Prosecutors (one way or the other), then I agree that would be very wrong even though not necessarily against the law - depending upon what they did/said.

[OzzieO]

Hi, by "damaged party" I mean the incident took place on a Virgin aircraft which diverted. Therefore the airline would have incured financial losses (ie the dumping of fuel etc). So therefore by damaged it suffered financially as a consequence of the diversion.

Unlike you (I assume by your name you have some legal knowledge) I do not have any legal qualifications I speak from personal experience.

[MaxMet]

Fonck

You have still not said whether Virgin atlantic carried out their own investigation into the bomb alert on Micheals flight. I am sure that they would have done so after such a serious incident. Micheal and the whole crew must have been interviewed as soon as they returned to base by management officials. What was the outcome of this investigation or is it still continuing and are Virgin awaiting the results of the American Courts? Is Micheal still employed by Virgin atlantic at this time?

As I have already posted I do not see the need for Micheal to return until after the Court Case. He is not being held in custody in a grim jail but rather with a family in their own home with time as it would appear to visit Disney World/Land?

If Micheal is not guilty of the charges against him and has the evidence to prove it then he should stay in the States and go through with proper legal proceedings. If he is found not guilty then there will be ways in which he can claim compensation back from the U.S. Government and the F.B.I.

Micheals plight seems like a fairly straight forward but unfortunate case. Unless of course their are difficulties surrounding the evidence put forward by the defending party.

I still think that it unwise for anyone to sign a petition when not all the evidence is available. Micheals case is hardly like signing a petition for the prevention of a new motorway or the felling of an ancient forest.

[Argentomagus]

It's been a week since the interesting questions from MaxMet were asked. How unfortunate that no answers are given yet....

[Huh??]

Michael Phillipe has apparently (according to various news sources) admitted to the crime and agreed to pay Virgin Atlantic $176,000 as restitution for the cost of diverting the aircraft. Is he still maintaining his innocence in spite of this?

-------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2596235.stm
From the BBC:

A French flight attendant has been sentenced to five years probation in a US court after pleading guilty to making false statements regarding a bomb threat on a plane travelling from London to Orlando, Florida.

Michael Phillipe, 25 years old, worked for Virgin Airways and was serving on Flight 27 on 19 January when he wrote "American must die" on a bathroom mirror with soap and "Bin Laden is the best Americans must die there is a bomb on board al-Qaeda" on an air sickness bag.

The plane was diverted to Iceland after Phillipe reported the messages to the captain and another flight attendant; however nothing was found and the plane continued to Orlando.

Phillipe had been charged with three other counts, including threatening to use a weapon of mass destruction against US citizens - a charge which could have carried a life sentence - communicating false information and endangering the safety of a flight.

He was also originally charged with intimidating flight crew members and making a false statement to an agent from America's Federal Bureau of Investigation.

However Phillipe's admission that he wrote the notes meant that the presiding judge in an Orlando court accepted a recommendation that he serve his five years' probation in France.

Phillipe agreed to pay a restitution of $176,000 to the airline to cover the cost of diverting the plane, saying he would pay $40,000 immediately.

The FBI arrested Philippe from Aux-les-Baines, France, on 27 March after it matched his fingerprints and handwriting on the note.

The hoax was one of several security scares on planes following the 11 September attacks, and only a few weeks after a British man, Richard Reid, allegedly attempted to blow up a an American Airlines flight with explosives hidden in his shoes.

---
Copyright BBC

[Alty Meter]

Hmmmm!
Pleaded guilty eh?
Now, what was I saying about not signing petitions about "injustice" when you don't know the facts.

[Flying.Coyote]

What about :

- plead not guilty and stay in warm florida for another 3, 6, 10 months under supervision or,

- plead guilty, get probation time and return in Europe to spend Christmas with your family...

It makes sense to me.

On the other hand we still don't know what happened...
As soon as michael arrived in France, he told the press he had to lie to the court (pleading guilty) to return to France.

Now what ?

[jmccrew]

Innocent who on earth pays $176.000 if they are innocent :confused:

[eaglejet]

It seems that some of you guys never been to the USA, and don't know how the american administration can sometimes be really stupid (and i know what i am talking about.....)

"if he is innocent, he will be relaxed"= that's the stupidest thing i have ever read:mad: :mad:
Do you really trust at 100% the justice of a country who is now scared of everybody or everything that is not made in USA??

Come on Guys, think a little bit more...........

[scroggs]

Jesus bloody Christ! I cannot believe some of the naive and idiotic posts on this thread.

The facts of this case are as stated in Huh?'s post above. This man pleaded guilty to writing the terrorist-style notes that prompted the diversion of this aircraft into Iceland, at great financial cost to the airline and greater emotional cost to the passengers (who, I imagine, will be contemplating civil action against this idiot). His actions would be totally despicable at any time, let alone in a period when the travelling public are still somewhat traumatised by the events of 9/11 and since.

(The US, as the destination country, asked for and received jurusdiction from the UK and Icelandic authorities as is provided for in international aviation law).

How could you possibly consider defending this man's actions through a petition - especially when many of you apparently knew (or cared?) nothing about the facts of the case? How would you feel if it had happened on your aircraft?

Frankly, they should have incarcerated the despicable fool and thrown away the key.

[OzzieO]

Naive? Idiotic? You sound like a really nice person. Happy Christmas.

[farefield]

Scroggs,

Your last sentence says it perfectly,and I can't help feeling that if our weasel of a government had been strong and tried him over here then he would be looking at a long time away now.You only have to look at the sentences being passed down to drunks on our flights to see that the courts are coming down hard on anybody interfering with a flight.

I would imagine the FBI are mighty hacked off right now,having tried so hard to get jurisdiction they see Phillipe effectively getting away with it.Yes I know he's been fined a hefty sum but you only have to look at his support group signatories to see that there are some wealthy people who might just help him out.:(

[scroggs]

Ozzie, I take it you either believe that this is an FBI plot (why?), or that you believe it's OK for rogue CC to issue terrorist threats on aircraft?

Or should I just forgive and forget this madman's admitted actions?:rolleyes:

[OzzieO]

errrrrm I am a bit confused here how on earth did you come to either conclusions?

Its your choice of words ie "naive" & "idiotic" that I take issue with.

Surely a postings board such as the one provided by pprune is a forum for discussion, debate and airing one's views.

Please do not twist my words.

[Sick Squid]

Right, I will not let this become bogged down in semantics. This Gentleman wrote his own hoax bomb threat, something he has admitted to ---albeit eventually---- in court. Had a passenger done such, the book should be thrown at them. For crew to even contemplate doing such an act is even worse owing to the involvement of "Duty of Care" at a minimum; in my opinion he has escaped very, very lightly here....

That he enlisted the help of people online and even in here to help "prove" his innocence to a crime for which he was guilty is equally unforgiveable. The focus of argument and complaint therefore lies not with those who may point this undeniable fact out to you, but with the person who effectively "played" on your good wishes and support. Phillipe was not a "victim" of the "phobia" surrounding 9-11; he was one of the perpetrators of that phobia, and a contributor to the atmosphere of fear we now deal with. No one likes being made to look foolish, and this Gentleman has made several do so.

Realise it, and move on... the bigger picture of this issue is not a he said/she said from anyone, but the complete abrogation of responsibility in a malicious manner by someone tasked with maintaining good order on board an aircraft.

Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator/Admin
[email protected]

[Bronx]

Can't say fairer then that.
Good assessment Mr Moderator.

[eaglejet]

Wow, I am sure that Michael would be proud to see all this solidarity between cabin crews.

As some of you said before, most of you don't know all the details of that story. So, if you don't want to sign the petition, don't incriminate Michael without evidences.

I think Michael would have done anything to escape from the USA. He paid the RANSOM to go back to his country, everybody would have done the same.......

[Alien Shores]

Oh, I don't often come in here for a look, but every time I do, another gem sits gleaming before my eyes :)

Lets add this up, shall we?

His handwriting, his prints, and a guilty plea. Prints? Well maybe could have accepted something there, but his handwriting? And a guilty plea on top of that? Excuse me! Ransom? Don't make me laugh.

The man's a fool, deserves to be in jail. To continue to support a fool after such an event shows.. well you work out what it shows... you'll find "GULLIBLE" somewhere after "GUILTY" in the dictionary; a bit of revision might work wonders to your perception skills.

Happy New Year

Alien

[Grandpa]

Sorry I'm late on this topic, but I didn't read there what I want to tell you.
I signed the petition for Michel.............
........not because I think he is not guilty..........
........not because he is French like me.
No. I put my name on this list because I was convinced the Justice of United States had not been fair with him.
I was surprised, when I red the previous posts about him, of the number of people who have an idealistic vision of the way in which justice is delivered in USA.
Don't you know that people who where obviously guilty have been cleared only because they had enough money to recruit the best lawyers?
Don't you know that a lot of people ( mainly poor and black) have been judged guilty - and often sentenced to death - while they where innocent, but too poor to afford a good lawyer?
If you have the occasion to watch a documentary film shot in the States, which won an Oscar last year ( sorry for the title.....it's Aloysius fault), you will see how enquiries are often conducted without any professionalism : in that case a young black had been convinced of murder and he had acknowledged under high pressure, but fortunately for him his lawyer was a good one.
Sure, nowhere is justice perfect, and it has a big amount of progress to do in many parts of the world , especially in USA.

[Pam747]

Ok then, Well, if he could afford the ransom, then why couldn't he afford a "Good" lawyer?

[Grandpa]

To my humble opinion, had his lawyer been a bad one, he would not have been offered to pay a ransom, and he would not stay with his family now................