EGFF radar

[DocLeaf]

Anyone know about problems with radar facilities at EGFF limiting NDB training - how long are they likely to last??

[Chilli Monster]

Cardiffs SSR has been declared out of tolerance and it's not going to be a quick fix. Don't see why they've got a problem though as they have access to Clee Hill same as Bristol and Filton do.

CM

[Spitoon]

CM, be a good chap and check your facts, then you won't mislead others.

FF have SSR on site - have done for years. If that's not working it may take a few days to put a feed from Clee Hill in. Even then, the accuracy of an SSR feed from some 60 miles away will not give the low level cover that would be needed to accommodate NDB training. Other factors that will affect the use of another SSR feed include what it is approved for labelling of primary targets or radar separation being the the usual choice.

[Chilli Monster]

Spitoon - read your PM's

Then I look forward to your edited version of the above ;)

CM

[Spitoon]

CM, don't be so touchy! And if you think I'm wrong why not put it up in the thread rather than in PMs?

You make some interesting points about that others won't have the benefit of reading.

I think you'll find that Clee has to be set up on request rather than being available all of the time - but I may be wrong.

As far as I know feeds like this are normally only available for labelling. Identing and separating traffic that is departing from that which may be in the primary radar overhead, therefore, may not be as easy as it is with on-site SSR that may well be OK'd for separation.

Whilst Bristol and Filton may pick up secondary targets at between 600 and 900ft, Cardiff is somewhat lower and shielded from Clee so low cover may not be as good.

Apologies for the confrontational manner that you took my first answer to be couched in. I was only trying to point out that it's not necessarily as simple as picking another SSR source and plugging it in but I've had a bad day.

[Partly Achieved]

Problems with the Cardiff's own SSR antenna have resulted in it being withdrawn from service. Could be for upto 8 months.

Cardiff have had a Clee Hill primary and secondary feed for a couple of years - available by just pressing the right buttons on the radar console.

Clee Hill primary is not used for separation. Clee Hill secondary has poor low level coverage.

For a number of reasons (increased workload, proximity of St Athan, etc, etc) training by "light" trainers has been suspended ufn. Other trainers are at the discretion of management on an individual basis.

[Spitoon]

Partly, thanks for the clarification.

[matspart3]

S'cuse my ignorance, but why can't you use Clee Hill primary for separation?

[mainecoon]

guess this one but distance from the prime head
terrain
rotation speed against approach radars
covers most i think
unless somebody knows more?

[flower]

The normal configuration when using Cleehill secondary is to still use Cardiff primary, because of the distance from radar head etc as already stated.

If using Cleehill primary as well we have to increase our separation criteria significantly from that of the Cardiff primary and SSR, There is also when using Clee hill primary and secondary little or no coverage below 4000ft in the vicinity of the CDF thus significantly increasing the workload on the ATCOs .

I hope it can get sorted out well before the 8 months but in the mean time bear with us please

[matspart3]

I was wondering what's the point of having the Clee primary then, if you can't use it?....also, do NATS charge Cardiff (a slightly different NATS) for the feed?

[Partly Achieved]

Cardiff can not use Clee Hill primary for seperation (it's displayed, but you can't 'use' it), but can provided a Secondary Only service with Clee Hill SSR.

[DocLeaf]

Does anyone have any news on this please?? Is it fixed yet and is NDB training available again?

[Lost_luggage34]

Please excuse my total ignorance but why was/is it estimated at 8 months to get the radar head repaired to within tolerance ?

[Partly Achieved]

Docleaf - Yes, training at Cardiff has resumed in accordance with the usual conditions. Phone 01446 712564 to make a booking.

Lost luggage - SSR antenna have to be specially made. Cardiff is "borrowing" a replacement antenna until a new one is built.

PA