CRP1 V's 5

[152small]

Greets to all

Been a while posting, work seem to think I have to earn my money instead of just automatically getting it for turning up:(

Was meant to go to duxford from Andrewsfield on sat, but weather was bollox so did some local instrument flying, which was great fun, although the hood did remind me of those rubbish sun visors from the eighties. (and people in between the ages of 20 and 30 can't deny owning one of these, especially in red or green);)

Seemed to take me forever to write 2 lines in the nav log :o , took a while to get to grips with CRP1 flight computer (strange word for it that) for the first time.

My question is : As I am one of the many out there who would like to fly for a living, is it worth me getting a CRP5. I know that the speeds are a lot higher than the CRP1, but does anyone know if this or any other difference would hinder my private flying, or should I stick with the 1 for cessna flying. :confused: Any thoughts welcome. Also, being a rather lazy IT type person, anyone know of any software that calculates heading, variation etc, in place of CRP's?

Thanks.

152small

[tom775257]

CRP5 handles low speeds perfectly well. I use it for a PA-28, if you want to fly for a living why purchase a CRP1, you will just have to get a CRP5 anyways.. also the CRP5 is bigger, easier to use.
The club I fly from has got software that does what you want, however I can't remember what it is called. Will check next time I fly...however I reckon it is worth the time using the crp-5 to get used to it.
cheers,
tom.

[FlyingForFun]

Agree with tom re. CRP1 v CRP5 - no point having both, the CRP5 does everything you need. (But, for the benefit of others reading this thread who aren't planning on going commercial, there's no point buying a CRP5 if you're not going to do a CPL.) I have both - I bought a CRP1 before I decided to do my ATPLs, then discovered I need a CRP5. I now keep my CRP5 on my desk, to use when studying, and my CRP1 in my flight case, to use when flying - it's nice to have a "spare" so to speak, but not essential at all.

I would stay away from computers at this stage, especially if you're planning on getting an ATPL. You'll need to be very good at using the CRP5 for the ATPL flight planning exam - and any practice you can get is good practice! Nothing wrong with using software once you've finished the exams, though - so long as you trust the software, that is.

FFF
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[152small]

Thanks Tom/FFF

I know what you are saying about learning to do the proper way first, so I'll try to avoid the software option until I get the CRP sorted. I'll probably go for the 5, whats a reasonable sort of price to pay for one? Being fairly new to all this never sure if the online avaiation "specialists" are good value or not.

Hopefully with a lot more practice with the CRP the flight plan should get done before it gets dark. May even like the thing one day.

152small

[FlyingForFun]

.....Learning to do the proper way first

Who said anything about "proper"??? Just because that's the way you have to do it for the exams, doesn't mean it's the "proper" way, or the best way..... ;)

FFF
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PS - Is there a "wanted" board in your flying club? That's probably the cheapest way you'll get your hands on one. Not sure what a good price would be though.

[tom775257]

I got my Crap5 about 6 months ago for about £70 if memory serves....for a bit of plastic :confused:
Tom.

[Tinstaafl]

Or you could get a Jep. CR type in a range of diameters for ~US$40 - 50.

More convenient, pocketable (CR5) and I find easier to use.

[Whirlybird]

I just sold my CRP-5 on E-Bay, and they turn up there pretty regularly; usually go for £40-50.

[long final]

If anyone else has one for sale, I need one by Jan. £70 doesn't half stick. :(

LF

[FlyingForFun]

Sorry to disagree, Tinstaafl, but don't get a Jep. Get a CRP5.

For all practical purposes, they'll do the same thing. But for the ATPL exams, you'll find that some of the multi-choice answers are very close together. You'll have to be extremely accurate to come up with the same answer as the examiner. The thing is, the examiner uses a CRP5. These things are not perfect, and if you use a Jep you might (I'm not saying you will, just that you might) find that you get an answer which is different. Not so different that it would have any practical effect on your flight plan, but it might just push you into the "wrong" answer to an exam question.

Also, the instructors on all the ATPL ground-schools will use a CRP5 to demonstrate on, so if you have anything different and you're not 100% sure how to use it, you might struggle.

I know the CRP5 isn't cheap... but if you get one second-hand, it looks like it can cost the price of 1/2-hour in a PA28 - hardly a big deal when you look at the total cost of getting a PPL, let alone an ATPL(f).

(Having said that, this is a Private Flying forum - so if you're just doing a PPL, and you come across a cheap Jep, I can't see any reason not to buy it. Probably a good idea to either be confident that you'll be able to learn to use it, or check that your instructor will be able to teach you - remember that your instructor (in the UK) is probably more familiar with a CRP1 - but once you know how to use it, it'll do the same as a CRP1, just as well. And you don't need the same level of accuracy for the PPL exams.)

FFF
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[Loop... Hole]

When I went to get me a CRP-5 the only one in stock had a 'wind arm' on the back. Anyone else got one of these? I think it's great to use instead of marking and rotating then rubbing it out again. Intructors and examiners (ATPL) have viewed it cautiously at first but have always allowed it.

[Whirlybird]

FlyingForFun is absolutely right; if you're doing the ATPLs, get a CRP5. You can always sell it again after you finish them; going rate is £40-50. So all it will eventually cost you is £20-30; not really that bad, especially in comparison to the shedload of money you're going to be spending anyway.

[mad_jock]

If you are going ATPL i wouldn't sell it straight after the exams. Some airlines require you to carry one in your flight bag as part of your own MEL.

The crap5 is slightly differnt to the jep whizz wheels something to do with the +300knts scales ???

MJ

[Tinstaafl]

FFF,

The argument about examiners use the CRP5 so everyone must use them is erroneous.

My experience has been that the spread of answers using CRPs is greater than the spread of answers using Jep. CR types (CR5, CR2 & CR1). At all times on the courses I've attended all Jep CR answers provided by the 6 or 8 of us using them were in a tight cluster well within the CRP5 spread given by the rest of the class.

If anything that's a justification for changing in itself.

Exam questions must allow for accuracy limits of the tools used to derive the answers. As long as answers provided by a tool are constrained within deviation limits of equivalent tools used as a benchmark then any tolerance (or lack thereof... ;) ) of exam question options is irrelevant.

Your argument about UK instructor familiarity has some basis however it is only the wind side that differs substantially. Not so substantially that it can't be self taught from the manual that comes with it (I, and many others I know, did).

The calculator side works the same for most calculations except that there are additional scales that allows one to skip some steps that must be done with the CRP type for Mach No. calculations - again, all explained quite clearly in the manual.

There IS a matter of comfort & familiarity but this cuts both ways. I feel the portability & convenience, ease of use & speed of a CR type vastly outweighs a period of adjustment.

I used an E6B type slide type (Still have it - a Kane etched aluminium one. No longer available) for my PPL, night & CPL training and then switched to a CR5 (the smallest & therefore the least accurate) for IR, Oz ATPL, FAA ATP & UK ATPL.

In no case was the CR a detriment and in some exam problems it was an advantage.