Going to florida for a holiday, possible hour build opportunity, help

[mintfavour]

Happy New year to you all

Im going to florida for a holiday with girl friends family etc etc in july. I thought this could be a good opportunity to get some cheap hours in possibly up to about 15+. I have currently got a JAA PPL(A) with IMC, Night, 1st Class medical, 116TT and 53PIC, this would have increased a bit by July as well.

I need advice on every thing about going over to the US to do some flying, anyone who has done it or any books that are worth reading (is the flying in Florida magazine advertised in this months flyer magazine worth any cop),

recommended establishments?
Licence/ID proceedures?
Do they have a slightly different circuit patern and radio proceedure?
Is carb ice a problem out there with the high humidity?
how far in advance do you need to book?

Please point me in the right direction.

cheers

mint.

[Sensible]

Well, Florida is a big o'l place when you are one end and the airplane you want to rent is at the other so you need to be more precise as to where you are going to in Florida.

If you are going with friends, don't forget that flying is a bit different than the UK with regards circuits or patterns as they are called in the US and distractions in the cockpit can be bad for your health! The radio procedures are more relaxed than in the UK and they really don't care how many people you have on board or about QFE's

Carb icing has never been a problem to me but I always use carb heat when descending with the engine idling and when the temperature is below 30C and/or visible moisture. A lot don't seem to use carb heat at all and seem to get away with it! If you go to a FTO that is used to the idiosyncracies of the Brits then they will guide you gently through the differences but in any event, you will be required to do a check out before they set you lose with the airplane.

You will need a licence conversion which comes free of charge at a Flight Standards Office - no wads of cash like the CAA ! But again where the closest one to you will be, I can't tell.

Airplane rental in the USA is about as complicated as renting a car except they want to just check that you can fly the thing! but the more notice you give, the better your chances are of finding an aircraft when you get there.
The big downside of flying in the USA is that when you find out how cheap and how good it is, you won't want to fly in the UK again.

Enjoy!

[mad_jock]

Basically you don't have any visa problems because you are already qualified.

You have to get a temp Airmans cert off one of the FAA examiners in the area and also complete a Bi-annual flight review, which you can do as part of your check flight for the rental. Whoever you choose to fly with should know whats involved.

The radio procedures are very slack so just stick to what you know and you will be fine. The area controllers all use correct RT and the only problem you might have is the speed of the RT. And don't be suprised that if you call in with Warrior 440 for example they come back with charokee 440, and a c162 is a skyhawk i think.

The first time you go into a decent sized regional airport can be a bit stressfull especially at the weekend, when you can get Lear Jets etc flying VFR and some quite fast singles knocking about.

Don't try to do a deadside join, the locals won't have a clue what you are doing and will just ignore you and proberly cut you up. Cross mid field at 1500 then 45deg entry to down wind at 1000 seems to keep most people happy at uncontrolled fields. Circuits in general are tight and can be extremly busy at the weekends. If you do large circuits people will take the **** by asking what type of bomber you are flying.

And from what i have seen if you turn up with cash most schools won't turn you away.

The other thing to watch out for is most schools have a deal with the local council and will only pay 1.50$ a gallon so if you decide to do your 300 miles qualifier you can be stung quite alot for the refueling.

I found Britannia, Winter Haven pretty good for hour building because they will pay back 2$ a gallon which means that you don't lose so much if you do a trip down to the keys and back. ( this might have changed now so check)

Places worth a visit.

St Augstine - oldest town in florida, still younger than my local <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> i had John Trovalta take off behined me in his boeing.

Space Coastal - 25$ taxi ride to NASA

Cedar Key - great fun runway and don't be suprised when the local taxi driver asks if you want a lift on the RT and she has a dog in a pink cardigan. Its well worth going to lunch there the shrimps are great.

Everglades - another fun runway in a cross wind.

Ormond Beach - h'mm worth a visit just to see the famous school which has produced more PPL's than any other, food is OK as well. And also cross charlie airspace to see the Daytona race track and watch the sharks cruising up and down the eastern sea board. And at the weekend watch out for sky divers dropping into Flagner.

Keystone - Real redneck country and a dog which attacks your plane when it takes off. (you don't want to get stuck here for the night!!)

And of course the Keys do a decent fuel plan for the trip as fuel is quite expensive the further out you get. And ask at the FTO for motels they can get very good discounts for you.

The only other advise is get as high as you can.
a. its cooler
b. the locals can't be bothered climbing that high so no traffic problems.
c. you can't get lost because you can see both coast lines (or should i say its alot harder to get lost)
d. if the engine goes and your at 8.5k you almost always have a strip within gliding distance, unless your over the everglades.
e. you don't get bounced around by the thermals and pissed off with gliders.

The only thing i would suggest you read up on is the american defintions of airspace and the current NOTAMS and interceptions, SVFR rules are different than at home as well.

Have fun

MJ

[B2N2]

Stick to a place with JAR-experience,it will be easier to explain the differences between US/UK.
Agree with all of the above.....license-conversion is the easiest...20 min and you're done.Even the Flight Review(mandatory) is no big deal since you need to be told about airspace etc anyway.Britannia still refunds $2 a gallon by the way.1-800-613-0953(toll free) if you're interested.

[CW]

Greeting's from the USA!
I agree with all of the information above on your impending trip across the big blue pond. Stay with the smaller airports in the area to which you're going ...I manage a small field in another southern state, we rent aircraft and there are a few things you'll need to have with you...Current Pilot Certificate, Medical card,Logbook....you have to have a current Sectional Chart of the area you'll be flying, and an AFD (Airport Facilities Directory)in the plane...(FAA rule) The directory tells you approaches, runway hazards, coordinates, and other valuable info such as landing fee, pattern altitudes, hours of operation and taxi service, or if there is transportation on the field. Smaller fields usually keep a crew car...we do you can borrow it as long as you bring it back! ha! (The rental should have 2 wings and 3 tires upon return too!) Placid Lakes Airport near Sebring is a private, public use airport. Identifier is 8X5 Go to Lake Air Inc. on the field. They are regular visitors to my airfield, and very nice people. The atmosphere there is very hospitable, and they can point you in direction of other areas you might like to see in Southern Florida. I've heard that the larger airports in Florida tack on outrageous fees to deter smaller private planes from the commercial airspace. The people at the smaller airports will treat you alot better. Most planes you rent are topped off, and will reimburse you a percentage of the fuel you buy eslewhere. Hope you enjoy the USA, and after you fly here, it is true that you will not want to return to the Uk style of flying. If you want to research airfields in the USA a good website is
<a href="http://WWW.AirNav.com" target="_blank">WWW.AirNav.com</a> Hope I was of some help to you!

[WhatsaLizad?]

Just one other weather note. In July the Thunderstorms are very common after 12:00 pm. The whole state can get covered with these mushroom clouds. Usually in the morning they are just scattered. Normally it is very predictable.


Best of Luck


<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[mintfavour]

Thanks for all of the infomation so far.

Im staying near Kissimee (sorry about the spelling. Any recomended airfields to hire from around that area.

Cheers

Mint

[distaff_beancounter]

Mintflavour
Orlando Flight Training, is based at Kissimee Airport. It is a JAA & FAA approved Flight Training Organisation & also does self-fly hire, especially for hour-builders, with a variety of aircraft types.
All the info is on its website:-
<a href="http://www.flyorlandoflorida.com/" target="_blank">http://www.flyorlandoflorida.com/</a>

[bow5]

Don't want to state the obvious but Kissimmee Municipal (KISM) is a good place to fly from. Not too big and not too small and it's nicely centrally located. I got to Miami and back in about 3 hours (ish) in a Warrior.

NB: When you call up the tower, say Kissimme with the emphasis on the 'me' at the end rather than the 'im' in the middle. You'll understand what I mean when you get there! They are a good bunch of controllers and are more than happy to take the p**s out of Brits who pronounce Kissimmee wrong. :)

There's nothing to worry about on the RT front - although they don't use QFE and their RIS is called 'Flight Following'. There are some wicked little places to go and visit in Florida so enjoy it. Crystal River (NW OF ISM) does great ice cream by the way!!

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>

[DesiPilot]

SkyGds,

I disagree with you.
[quote] you have to have a current Sectional Chart of the area you'll be flying, and an AFD (Airport Facilities Directory)in the plane...(FAA rule) <hr></blockquote>
You are not required to carry charts or AFD when flyin VFR. But if you are carrying those they must be current.

mintflavour,
When flying in USA, remember we do not use QFE's here. Only QNH and its called altimeter setting. No milli bars or hpa here, inches of mercury is what you will see here. When you are doing circuits/sorties/traffic patterns remember to start your descent for landing when you are abeam landing point on downwind rather then maintaining your altitude until its time to turn base (most locals will assume that you are departing the circuit pattern otherwise).
Check with the flight school if there are any surcharges, taxes. Most of the school will quote you wet rates but at times they omit to tell you about taxes or surcharges.
Places to visit:
St. Augustine (KSGJ)
Sebring (KSEF) very good breakfast
Venice (KVNC) nice walk to Sharkies on the beach
Cedar Key (KCDK) 2400' runway, good sea food
Everglades (Khmmmmmmmmm) try to arrange river boat rides
Okeechobee nothing much to do here, fuel is $1.54 per gallon
If you are also into sky diving, you can visit lake wales, Zepherhills, Deland, Sebastian.
Vero Beach (KVRB) I am not sure if Piper is still doing the factory tours after Sept 11, if they are, its worth visiting.
Cross City (KCTY) Both FBO and restaurant is closed, they are reopening the FBO within a week. No word on restaurant.
Ocala (KOCF) good food at the restaurant, enjoy the long wide runway.
Merrit Island (KCOI) closest to NASA, you can take a cab/taxi from there to Kennedy Space Centre.

In July the temprature is bit on the hot side. Drink a lot of water whilst you are here. Avoid flying in the afternoon, you will be surprised how many TS can build here during afternoon. Best time to fly, early in the morning or around 5 pm when TS's are more or less gone. It doesn't get dark till 8 pm.

Enjoy your trip.

ps: We at Britannia refund the fuel at $1.85 now.

[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: DesiPilot ]</p>

[CW]

OOPs! Sorry about that missquote! DesiPilot....you are absolutely right. (sorry for the missinfo Mintflavour.) I've been around a flight instructor who insists that the charts and AFD's are in possession of each student pilot.....his preflight's take well over an hour with each SP as well, DUH

[CW]

And now I'm repeating myself....you know how we dumb blondes are. I think I had a "kelly Bundy Moment" there, but I'm ok now.

[luddite]

Mintflavour - I did a few hours late 2000 at Bartow, think the setup's called Bartow Air Services, couldn't have been more helpful. It's about a 40 minute drive south-south-west from Kissimmee, can't miss it, big red water tower on the field. C152s they were, all in fine nick, HUGE airfield the size and layout of Heathrow with a serious shortage of aircraft movements! Had a trip to Venice for lunch, leisurely tour round the coast, all very pleasant and undemanding. But if you want some REAL fun visit Jack Brown's seaplane base, along from Britannia but on the lake, and get checked out on a Piper Cub on floats!

[bow5]

Ahhhhh. Bartow. The biggest yet quietest airfield on the planet!! I did my practice engine failures etc. there on my PPL checkride and I don't remember hearing or seeing another aircraft there the whole time we were buzzing around the circuit. In fact, I think just about all OFT's checkrides end up there because it's so quiet.

P.S. If anyone flying in Florida wants a challenge, then try a couple of touch and go's at Orlando Country (X04 - I think). Possibly the shortest and narrowest runway you'll ever see. Got me landing on the centreline quick enough!!

[Sensible]

And pylons at the end from memory! Nice night landings!!!

[Quelch]

You might want to get the biennial flight review (BFR) done in the UK before you go. Could save a bit of hassle. (The BFR is a one-hour checkride and one-hour ground school session which all FAA pilots must do every two years. Even if you have a certificate issued on the basis of a CAA/JAA licence you must still do it.)

[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]</p>

[Sensible]

Quelch, I'm confused!!????? Why does a pilot flying on a CAA/FAA licence need an FAA BFR? So far as I'm aware, an FAA BFR is not required except for somebody flying on an FAA Licence. Us Brits only need to ensure that we have the CAA/JAA BFR and a current medical to ensure that our licence is current and then get an FAA conversion in the USA at a Flight Standards Office. An FAA BFR counts for nothing because without the UK BFR on our CAA/JAA licence, the FAA conversion is not valid anyway.

I've posted this same question on an identical posting of yours - Nothing to do with uplift aviation by any chance are you?

[Sensible]

But why? we CAA/JAA types just don't need it!!!!! ie: its a waste of money!!!

[bellwood]

You have to ask youself who in their right mind is going to lend you a plane without first checking you can fly it... the easiest way for them to do this is to make you sit a BFR, as you get to show them a little bit of what you can do. as for the legal side, i don't really know, you could try banging you fist on the desk shouting 'i'm british', but i have found that this rarely works. the BFR is hardly hard work, and doesn't cost the earth.. just do it and enjoy the flying.. the USA is a wonderful place to fly. hope you have a good time.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Sensible,

I have listed the FAR applying to Foreign Pilots needing a BFR. Its 61.76(e)(3).

Quelch,

You are better off doing the BFR in the U.S. at the school you are going to rent from. It would cost less money and at most schools the BFR also counts as the Checkout. Expect the BFR to last about 3 hours. (1.5 on the ground and 1.5 in the air.)

[quote]

14 CFR - CHAPTER I - PART 61

§ 61.75 Private pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license.

(a) General. A person who holds a current foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may apply for and be issued a private pilot certificate with the appropriate ratings when the application is based on the foreign pilot license that meets the requirements of this section.

(b) Certificate issued. A U.S. private pilot certificate that is issued under this section shall specify the person's foreign license number and country of issuance. A person who holds a current foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued a private pilot certificate based on the foreign pilot license without any further showing of proficiency, provided the applicant:

(1) Meets the requirements of this section;

(2) Holds a foreign pilot license that --

(i) Is not under an order of revocation or suspension by the foreign country that issued the foreign pilot license; and

(ii) Does not contain an endorsement stating that the applicant has not met all of the standards of ICAO for that license;

(3) Does not currently hold a U.S. pilot certificate;

(4) Holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a current medical certificate issued by the country that issued the person's foreign pilot license; and

(5) Is able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(c) Aircraft ratings issued. Aircraft ratings listed on a person's foreign pilot license, in addition to any issued after testing under the provisions of this part, may be placed on that person's U.S. pilot certificate.

(d) Instrument ratings issued. A person who holds an instrument rating on the foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued an instrument rating on a U.S. private pilot certificate provided:

(1) The person's foreign pilot license authorizes instrument privileges;

(2) Within 24 months preceding the month in which the person applies for the instrument rating, the person passes the appropriate knowledge test; and

(3) The person is able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(e) Operating privileges and limitations. A person who receives a U.S. private pilot certificate that has been issued under the provisions of this section:

(1) May act as a pilot of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry in accordance with the private pilot privileges authorized by this part;

(2) Is limited to the privileges placed on the certificate by the Administrator;

(3) Is subject to the limitations and restrictions on the person's U.S. certificate and foreign pilot license when exercising the privileges of that U.S. pilot certificate in an aircraft of U.S. registry operating within or outside the United States; and

(4) Shall not exercise the privileges of that U.S. private pilot certificate when the person's foreign pilot license has been revoked or suspended.

(f) Limitation on licenses used as the basis for a U.S. certificate. Only one foreign pilot license may be used as a basis for issuing a U.S. private pilot certificate. The foreign pilot license and medical certification used as a basis for issuing a U.S. private pilot certificate under this section must be in the English language or accompanied by an English language transcription that has been signed by an official or representative of the foreign aviation authority that issued the foreign pilot license.

(g) Limitation placed on a U.S. private pilot certificate. A U.S. private pilot certificate issued under this section is valid only when the holder has the foreign pilot license upon which the issuance of the U.S. private pilot certificate was based in the holder's personal possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.


<hr></blockquote>

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[Decision Altitude]

Ive posted this elsewhere so apols if Ive hijacked the thread but I was just wondering if anyone has any information about FBOs in the Eglin area.

Thanks in advance

DA

[sam white]

Mint,
One thing, if you want to venture down into Miami airspace, Be carefull. it is the busiest airspace in the world that PPL's can fly into, all the airfields have the same runway layout which makes Nav a little tricky. I did it at night for the first time and it resulted in a BAD situation.
At the time I had around 110 hours/IMC in Florida airspace and lots of that in Busy airspace. Not trying to scare you off, 'cause Miami is a nice place to go but just make sure you 'Self brief' very well.
Make sure you let the company know what you want, I have a few friends that spent 3 days trying to get checked out ( due to unservicability ), and only managed 3 hours in a weeks holiday.

[Sensible]

I stand to be corrected, but I didn't think that there was any great problems with Miami. Get a VFR flight following and don't be afraid to ask ATC if there are any problems. Personally, I thought that Tampa area was at least as busy as Miami and that LosAngeles as busy as both put together!