jaa-ppl usa-practical advice

[bere]

Hi,
I understand the only jaa-country that recognizes jaa-ppl courses abroad is the UK. So since I'm a Belgian citizen I'm planning to do one of those 3 week ppl courses in the States.

Is everything including medicals, actual licence issue etc. taken care off in the US or will I have to travel to the UK several times to get everything in order?

State of licence issue will be UK, what's the procedure for converting it to Belgium (I am planning to do the CPL module in Belgium)?

Of course flight school recommendations are also welcome.

Any help is greatly appreciated,
thank you,
Bere

[GoneWest]

Bere

As I understand it, ALL the requirements for licence issue need to be undertaken under the guidance of any one "JAA member state".

So, the all minimum flight training (25 hrs dual, 10 hrs solo), all the written examinations (6 of them, I think), the final "skill test", the medical and the licence application must be done through one "country".

If you choose to do the course in the USA then this must all be done through the UK CAA - for the reasons you state.

This means that you require a UK medical (class two will suffice for PPL). You can get this class 2 medical by one of four methods - a CAA approved medical examiner in the UK (known as an 'AME'), a CAA AME in the USA (there are two - one in Florida, one in Michigan), a CAA approved AME in any country (don't know any - look at the web site)...or, go to a JAA AME anywhere in the World, get a copy of the medical reports taken by that AME and send them to UK CAA in Gatwick. They will then issue you a UK JAA medical.

If you want a class one medical - your only choice is to go to Gatwick and do it with the CAA themselves.

If you do decide to go the UK CAA way in the USA you may be required to take a seventh written examination (Radio theory) and a Radio Practical Test - for which you will need a good command of the English language.

If you do the medical, exams and flying in the USA then your application for licence can be done by mail and you need never go to the U.K.

[bere]

Thanks a lot GoneWest. This information is a great help for me. Could you perhaps recommend some flight schools in the us?

[Julian]

Bere,

I did the US route for obtaining a JAA PPL. Roughly this is what I did.

i) Obtained a Class II medical in the UK. Do this before you spend any money on other stuff in case you have some medical condition you arent aware of!

ii) I sat all my ground exams apart from the RT in th UK, I strongly advise this as then you can just concentrate on the flying when you get out there, the school I used did actually include the cost of all the exams in cluidng the RT in the course so I ended up paying a bit extra for an easier life once I got out there.

iii) Arrive in US, obtain a Class III Medical, this also doubles as your FAA Licence as your instructor will endorse the back of it at various points of your course, i.e. solo, XC, etc.

iv) Do some flying...pass flight test! <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> )

v) Sit RT Practical exam.

vi) Back to UK and apply for JAA PPL licence. Cost £164, only additional expense incurred!

vii) On next trip back to US you are entitled to appply for an FAA PPL - BUT this will be restricted to the priveldges of your JAA licence, i.e. in UK Night rating required at night, therefore cannot fly at night in US until you have NR even though NR is part of FAA PPL.

VOILA! Two licences for the price of one!!!!


As for flight school depends where you end up. I went to Longbeach, California and used UK Flight Training.

<a href="http://www.ukft.com" target="_blank">www.ukft.com</a>

Also across the road from them is Ranbow Air who do the JAA training I believe but use UKFTs examiner.

<a href="http://www.rainbowair.com" target="_blank">www.rainbowair.com</a>

Once you have passed i can reccomend Rainbow for aircraft rental, good selection and well maintained.

I have since gone on and completed my FAA IR with Rainbow, bloody good fun!!!!

Any specific questions then mail me.

Regards,
Julian.

[spitfire747]

Hi

One word of advice, cheapest is not always the best, although it sounds appealing to the student.

Go for a school that has a good reputation, many can be found by searching this forum, ask people, phone them up and talk to them and if you are happy then you will be OK.

I can thoroughly recommend Naples Air Center in Naples Florida (www.naplesaircenter.com) they are great, instructors good and the aeroplanes maintained very well. Area is good for learning and the provided accomodation is excellent.

Another word of caution, PLEASE NEVER pay money upfront. Pay as you go each day and use a credit card. Any reputible school will welcome and rewcommend this and it saves you the unhappiness if anything goes wrong.

Finally once you choose a schoola nd finally get there HAVE FUN !!!!!!!

If you ever want anymore advice just email me
[email protected]

[Julian]

Sound words from Spitfire.

I can say that both schools I mentioned are in good form, I was using Rainbow but popped over to say 'Hi' to the instrctors at UKFT and they were very busy - this despite being just after Sept 11th!!!

Both also let you pay as you go, I dont think UKFT has a min amount you can credit to your account, but I generally did $1000 blocks as I went along. Rainbow is $750 min and you top up when it runs down $100.

There have been a few students loosing large amounts of money when schools have gone under so 'Spitfire' says - dont part with large amounts of cash - NO MATTER HOW APPEALLING THE DISCOUNTS - you could get burnt!!!

Julian.

[TAF Oscar]

I also went the US route and ended up with a UK CAA PPL, as the Dutch authorities definitely do not approve of training outside the home country. Although I had my medical in the UK (I was visiting anyway, via Manchester Airport, so I had it done by the AME there), I know people who got their class II's done at Soesterberg and sent them to the CAA, works OK so long as you send the original paperwork and not copies. For the rest I didn't have to go to the UK at all, everything worked by post. The Aero Club here raised some eyebrows at my licence etc as they are a different format then the NL ones, but in the end it was all accepted.

I don't know about Belgium but doing a Night Rating in the US would be a waste of time for NL as night VFR is not allowed here; something maybe to check before spending extra money on it.

I am a very satisified customer of Britannia in Winter Haven, went back last year to do some hour building. If you want more detail you can mail me.

Succes!
TAFO

[JEC]

GoneWest

For your information:

There has been a change in the policies for issuing UK JAA licences.

I have been communicating with CAA concerning the medical – coming out of Denmark. Here is what CAA informed me:

“The current policy is if you hold a Danish JAA class 2 certificate our flight crew licensing department will accept that for the issuing of your UK JAA licence. I hope that this now clarifies things for you and avoids all the unnecessary movement of paperwork.”

That is the right spirit of JAA, and I believe that it must be the case for all other JAA countries as well.

If any doubt – contact CAA.

And by the way – I would recommend Naples Air Center. <a href="http://www.naples-air-center.com" target="_blank">http://www.naples-air-center.com</a>

JEC

[Sensible]

Gonewest, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that to fly as a SOLO STUDENT pilot in the USA you only need a USA medical certificate. Once you pass your PPL, THEN and only THEN do you need a medical certificate pertaining to the country of licence issue, ie: FAA licence USA medical, CAA licence, UK medical, JAA licence, European medical etc. And don't part with your cash up front. Naples Air Centre would be a good choice!

Edited cos spellin an grammer aint my strong poynt

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: Sensible ]</p>

[GoneWest]

Julian...you saved me a lot of typing.

Bere...do as he/she says...but consider taking R/T in UK BEFORE travel to USA...it's much easier to learn it correctly from the the start - and the phraseology will be acceptable to the USA....learning the appalling rubbish that they speak out here...which is NOT acceptable in Europe...and then trying to learn it correctly later is much more difficult.

JLC - no argument from me...but I know of THREE students that have applied to UK CAA with JAA medicals and have been refused in the last few months. Word from Battleship House was that they must do EVERYTHING under the one Country...including medical (this appeared to change within a week...sudden refusals!!).

Sensible...yep...FAA "Student Pilot Certificate" is all that the LAWS require you to have in FAA airspace...and a UK one is invalid as a student. A UK/European medical IS VALID as a licensed pilot...not as a student....however, the JAA course syllabus suggests you should have a JAA medical as a prerequisite PRIOR to commencing flight training. (Paperwork thing....not law).

[Julian]

Sensible,

Gonewest is right, you do need an FAA medical to fly in FAA airspace.

Got me thinking now wether your JAA medical has to be in date as well as unless you undertake the FAA PPL your licence is issued on the back of your JAA PPL, now if your JAA medical therefore has to be valid at time of use in FAA airspace is a good question. Its a situation I haven't come across as mine have always run concurrently and been renewed together.

Anyone know?

Incidently you can get your FAA done in the UK before you go to the US. I have just booked in for a JAA renewal in Christchurch, Bournemouth becuase they will do you the FAA one at the same time!!

Julian.

[Sensible]

So far as I'm aware, if you don't hold any licence or you are an FAA licence holder then you need an FAA medical to fly in the USA BUT if you hold a CAA/JAA licence then you definitely need a UK/JAA medical. An FAA medical is absolutely no use to you. The FAA licence which is issued to you in the USA on the back of your CAA/JAA licence is "Issued on basis of and valid only when accompanied by United Kingdom Pilot Licence Number PP******G/A all limitations and restrictions on the United Kingdom Pilot License apply" - That means if your UK licence aint valid ie: you don't have a current JAA medical then you cant fly in the USA regardless as to whether you have passed the FAA medical or not!

[GoneWest]

Sensible....and any one else who believes me...

Last time I looked at the FAR's on this question (though they do change!!) it clearly said that EITHER an FAA or a "foreign national" medical is suitable.

This made me ask the question - to my friends and colleagues at the FAA - about a UK (JAA?)medical expiring.

Their answer was that IF THE LICENCE WAS VALID either medical would do. I explained that UK requires the medical to keep the licence VALID.

Response was, "VALID, to us, means not expired, not revoked [cancelled], in current flying practice"...currency of JAA medical - they did not care about.

Most certainly would NOT like to try this one in a Court of Law. I agree with your interpretation...UK medical should be current...the FAA, however, don't care. Hmmmm.

Back to the other question though....you must have FAA medical to operate as a solo STUDENT in US airspace. UK medical is worthless.

[bere]

Thanks a lot everyone,
greetings.