New treatment for DVT: Lawyers, available everywhere

[Crepello]

So, the ambulance-chasers are finally moving in. Do your worst, people, and let's take things to their logical conclusion:

- An economy return from London to Paris, please.
- Certainly sir, that'll be an economy return in new Anti-DVT Economy with 80cm pitch. That'll be twenty thousand euro, please...

I realise this is essentially a medical issue but the consequences could effect the whole industry, so I'm posting here...

-----

DVT 'VICTIMS' SUE AIRLINES
[BBC News Online, 17 July 2001]

An Australian law firm has launched legal action against three international airlines over blood clots suffered by passengers on long-haul flights.

Lawyers have lodged three test cases - against Dutch airline KLM, Australia's Qantas Airways and British Airways, as well as Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).

They said the cases would set a world precedent and, if successful, could involve damages payments of millions of dollars.

Deep vein thrombosis (DVT) is sometimes called "economy-class syndrome" because it is associated with sitting for long periods without exercise - as passengers do on long flights.

One of the passengers claiming compensation is 21-year-old Australian woman Naomi Forsyth, who suffered a blot clot after flying to Edinburgh from Melbourne.

"I feel really angry because it's something that could easily have been prevented," she told reporters. "I just want people to be aware that it can happen, and it's not just to older people."

She said swelling in her leg would affect her for the rest of her life.

The other cases involves a South African, Debbie Daniels, who suffered brain damage from a cerebral haemorrhage after a honeymoon in Australia in 1998, and Australian Lawrie Gillott, 55, who nearly collapsed at London's Heathrow airport with a blood clot in his lung. He said his life had since returned to normal.

Following worldwide publicity after the death last October of 28-year-old British woman Emma Christofferson after a 20-hour flight, many airlines have been showing videos on suitable in-flight exercises.

But the law firm, Slater and Gordon, said the airlines had not acted quickly enough.

"For thousands of people this information came too late for them to take simple precautions or assess their health suitability for a long flight," said solicitor Paul Henderson.

"It's a world first. It's the first time that the civil aviation authority and the airlines have been brought to book on the issue of knowledge and information and why it hasn't been passed on to the passenger."

Mr Henderson said the firm had nearly 3,000 other clients hoping to make claims, including 197 cases involving deaths.

The cases are expected to be heard by the Victorian Supreme Court in 18 months time at the earliest.

Qantas said it would defend any claim but had not yet seen the writs. British Airways had no immediate comment, and a CASA spokesman said it wanted to study the writs before commenting.

"If and when it gets to the courts, we will make a response at that time," said CASA spokesman Peter Gibson. "It will be a year or two before this matter will get to court."

Deep vein thrombosis suffered by airline passengers has not been closely studied. Airlines say it is not directly caused by air travel, arguing that blood clots can also form during long periods of immobility in cars, trains and hospital beds.

But some researchers say the pressure in aircraft cabins can increase the risk of blood clots, as can the cramped conditions.

[broadreach]

Thank you for that nugget, Crepello.

Now, I wonder if I could enlist the assistance of Flying Lawyer in bringing suit against Capt. PPrune a.k.a. Danny Fyne for having wilfully and maliciously set up this site and its accompanying chat room, perusal of and participation in which contributed overwhelmingly to the formation of a blood clot in my lower right leg, subsequently identified as DVT and the cause of privation and suffering beyond all reasonable measure (i.e. NO measures of J&B AT ALL for three months!).

If only I'd known all this was going to happen I'd have gone to a Gatbash and placed myself in a nice position to sue BA. Damn.

:rolleyes:

[HotDog]

What a load of codswallop! In 33 years of flying, sitting 20,000hrs + in various cockpits and simulators, I have never encountered DVT amongst my colleagues or my self. What a pity ambulance chasing has finally caught on amongst the legal profession in Australia!

[Lurk R]

For those of you not familiar with Oz, the law firm (Slater & Gordon) are specialist ambulance chasers and their past endeavours have not been limited to airlines. They chase anyone with big pockets and anyone who believes that integrity ,righteousness and the search for justice are their real motives is just fooling themself.

P.S. Calling them "pond scum" would be considered rather insulting to algae!!!

[ 19 July 2001: Message edited by: Lurk R ]

[JohnBarrySmith]

Deep Vein Thrombosis from sitting in airplanes is real. It happened to me in 1963. I got a clot in right leg below knee on DC 8 flight from Honolulu to Miami.

I now have chronic venous insufficiency.

I also got clots over the years from sitting in cars, behind the yoke of my Mooney, and in front of computers.

I sue nobody. I wear elastic stockings. I take Coumadin. I exercise.

The problem is stasis of blood in lower extremities for hours.

The solution is exercise during sitting to get blood flowing. It is a solvable problem in flght by flexing calves. Another solution is to elevate the legs above heart.

As usual, education is the answer. To implement is difficult.

Every pilot is at risk. Flex those calves.

Cheers,
JohnBarrySmith (GIB, guy in back)

[QTSOA]

I was sickened the other night to watch a DVT 'victim' burst out into tears on television, obviously for the sole purpose of getting the public's sympathy. I am not a cold person, and my sympathy goes out to those who get DVT, however, in most cases, the 'victims' are not living healthily anyway! The majority of cases have been smokers, or had other unhealthy habits that largely contributed to the onset.
The public need to know that aviation, despite how far it has developed to this day, is still somewhat experimental. It's an industry where anything can happen, and new discoveries are being made every day. Every passenger that boards an aircraft is a test case. There are claims that DVT has been occuring for many years. There were so few occurences, it's understandable why nothing serious was done. The airlines and CASA owe the victims nothing. They provide a service, and knew (at the time) no better. Though tragic, there was nothing (at the time) that could have been done. What i've written here might not make much sense because im very tierd, and i apologise for that. But this is the way I see it. This is the real world, and I think that the people wanting to cash in on an unfortunate situation for both them and the airlines need to re-consider, and keep it real! Please correct me if anything I have said is incorrect.

[deepvainpain]

This is strange. All pax can avoid DVT if they just move about the cabin during a flt. You would be amazed however about the amount of people who refuse to move during a long haul flt. They seem to think that we are slaves for them to use during the duration of the flt. They will not even get up for a glass of water esp the americans. The phase thet we all hate is "I need some water?".
We all think, can you not get off your fat arses and get it yourself. Any English person would, they would not dreanm of ringing the call bell for a drink. They come and get it themselves. Sorry to all you yanks out there, but I have to say that you are all rude esp on LAX,LAS and SFO's. We all love doing MCOs and MIA because they are full of british tourists who dont ask for a think. God bless them.

[min]

Being a nurse, I can attest to the fact that people don't always do what's in their best interests. Education often seems to (frustratingly!!) fall on deaf ears. I sincerely hope however, that people don't go down the litigation path for something that is eseentially something they themselves can help to prevent. Taking responsiblity for your own health, be that on a day to day basis, or a flight from Sydney to London seems commonsense to me, but I know from experience, that some people just don't like to accept that responsiblity.

[Bon Giorno]

You're right QTSOA - it doesn't make much sense.

Have a good lie down and try again.

[cyclops]

A simple solution - remove the seats and have an exercise track around the cabins. Cattle class have hard floors, business have felt lined and first class could walk on a beach.

[Dan Winterland]

Maybe Sir RB's idea of fitting gyms in some of the ordered A340-600s is not as daft as it seems!

[gregm]

I have always wondered about the relationship between drugs and flying. I have travelled a number of long distance flights and are always amazed at the number of people who are zonked out of their brains, on sleeping pills and other drugs, are these the people getiing DVT, I do not know, but it would be interesting to find out whether their is relationship between activities, drugs, etc comsummed prior to flying, when you do a scuba diving course they teach you not to dive and fly. I always considered that I should be rested and healthy (not stressing out my body by excessive drinking before flying.)

DVT is real, people have had strokes from cradeling their phone on their necks for extended periods of time, causing blood cloting and strokes.

Is hard to see a signficant difference between the phyiscal characteristics of other transport methods except that on long bus trip there tends to a break every three or four hours where everbody gets off the bus at roadside diner etc.

[Ranger]

This is a fight that the airlines need to win, otherwise by default they will be responsible for everything and anything that happens no matter how tenuous the link. Maybe if you have a less than satisfactory holiday you should sue the airlines because they took you there in the first place.

I clearly remember my first international flight was from Melbourne to Hong Kong in 1984 in QF cattle class. The in-flight entertainment had a channel devoted to health and well being in flight, including both exercise and relaxation in the seat.

[autoflight]

Some airlines have pathetic seat pitch. Combine this with some very narrow seats, and problems are inevitable. Seat belts signs can sometimes be on for extended periods in turbulence.
Crew commonly leave the seat belt sign on during the night, to avoid the problem of switching it on / off when passing turbulent areas. This is to avoid the need to wake pax while checking belts are fastened each time the sign is switched on. During this extended sign on time, pax commonly ignore it due to the absense of turbulence. They lie across empty seats without seat belt on, and make toilet visits without permission of the crew.
Individual captains finally accept this situation over time.
The problem is with the airlines. They choose the seats and the pitch. They know about the night time problem. Neither risk has been adequately addressed.

[WideBodiedEng]

Autoflight, you are talking through your a***! (With deepest respect of course!):D
My uncle is a retired Surgeon and got DVT travelling from the US to Ireland a couple of years ago.
He was in First Class.
And more to the point DID NOT recognise that he had a Pulmonary Embolism until he collapsed! Now if a qualified and reasonably eminent medic didn't recognise it then how can we "blame" seat pitch etc? It is inertia that helps cause it. :(
Another friend also got an embolism, again after flying in first class. Luckily he was visiting a doctor friend!
It all just boils down to Ambulance Chasers and greedy people.

What's Black and Tan and looks good on a Lawyer?
A Rotweiler of course!

[AtlPax]

I wonder if taking a couple aspirin (along with light exercise) would reduce possibility of DVT (aspirin being a blood thinner).

[Brenoch]

well, I'm taking an aspirin and I'm going to bed..

hope I don't get a trombosis.. :D

[Bealzebub]

Everytime somebody posts a topic concerning a reported lawsuit, it seems that many people consider it a personal affront to them.

The courts are the proper forums for the ultimate resolution of disputes. If you dont like the situation that is just unfortunate. Funny how your view of someone elses injury or loss can turn 180 degrees when it one day affects you.

As for the suggestion that Money is the evil goal. It is a fact that no court action is ever going to bring back a loved one or repair a trauma. Unfortunetaly money is the only thing that is ever on the table. it is the only thing that punishes large corporations who do wrong. It is a blunt instrument but there it is.

Plaintiffs dont always win, and even when they do it is only after long and stressful years of fighting. The victories in many cases ring hollow. The legal bills, the medical bills, the other dues still have to be paid.

The corporations are very capable of paying to ensure the plaintiffs are bullied without the support of the ill informed.

:(

[autoflight]

widebodiedeng: Your quality of your response is confirmed by the reply language.
You are not the only one who knows a DVT sufferer. You have not given sufficient consideration to the total situation, just like the airlines. I do not say that pax are faultless, but they are not so clever, so we cannot place all the blame on them. Airlines have failed to properly address the whole situation. A 5 minute video on in seat exercises is not enough. They need to find ways to get each pax out of the seat, while giving fresh thought to seat belt sign policy. I do not claim that this will be a simple job. At the moment Captains cannot share even a small amount of the resposibility with his company, due airlines dodging the issue. If airlines (and wbe) could widen their perspectives on this serious matter, we might actually achieve a reduction in DVT. That is a target, isn't it?

[Flash2001]

There's quite a good site at http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/ which assists one to debunk the "Statistics" oft quoted by politicians, lawyers, journalists and other parasites. A few months ago Mr. Brignell established that the percentage of DVT cases arriving at LHR is about the same as the percentage in the general population.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Long flights have been known to be a risk factor for DVT for decades, along with other causes of immobility such as long bus journeys.

Yes, now that all the publicity has blown up the airlines should help educate their passengers, but to hold them liable for DVTs occurring in those passengers is utterly absurd. In medical negligence it is not sufficient to prove that the person being sued contributed through their negligence to the condition caused, but that theirs was the majority cause. I don't see how you could say that with inflight DVT in which so many other factors are at play.

QDM

[autoflight]

Airlines and their staff have an increased duty of care. Its not like we can ask the driver to stop, and get off the bus.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Airlines and their staff have an increased duty of care. Its not like we can ask the driver to stop, and get off the bus.

Yes, they do have a duty of care to their passengers and they should educate them. However, if I was an airline being sued for an inflight DVT I would be looking very hard for other predisposing factors such as Factor V Leiden, or other pre-existing conditions such as obesity or the contraceptive pill. Do airline flights cause DVT? No, they are one of a number of potential predisposing factors. Since two passengers on the same flight, sitting next to each other don't both get DVT there must be something above and beyond the immobility which causes it in the one.

QDM

[Whirlybird]

Until recently you were treated as exceedingly anti-social if you walked about the cabin a lot, especially if you had a window seat, and most espeically on very crowded charter flights. Now I like window seats, I also like good deals (ie charter flight last minute bookings), and being generally restless I used to get up on any pretext I could find even before the DVD publicity. But the people next to me obviously didn't like it, the FAs didn't like it (no room for me to pass their trolleys), and I was generally treated as an annoyance. Being somewhat thick-skinned, I didn't care. That's now changed, I noticed last time I flew as a pax. But for your nice, conventional, British-and-therefore-don't-want-to be-noticed-or-upset-anyone normal passenger...not so easy; at least that's probably improved now.

[lunkenheimer]

One of the drawbacks of smaller seat pitches is that they necessitate the other pax in the row to get up and out of their seats if you need to leave or return to the middle or window seat. Which makes the action of getting up that much more annoying to the others, especially if they're asleep.

Depending on your inclination, this can make the window seat less or more attractive according to whether you would rather suffer inconvenience or inflict it :D

[Dockjock]

autoflight
"Increased duty of care" there you've hit it. But why do I get the impression you're the same type of person who whines and cries now that you've figured out that "you get what you pay for".

As far as large corporations being able to afford to pay huge lawsuits, hmm last time I checked we weren't exactly fuelling our airplanes with hundred dollar bills.

[autoflight]

There are a couple of small personal attacks in this subject that are just not appropriate.