Calling Irish pilots... Aerial flight school in Dublin

[niallcooney]

Hi everyone, just wanted to get the lowdown on Aerial flight school, which operates in Dublin (Lucan)... they're offering the only ATPL(f) in Ireland and I'm tempted. Anyone know anything about them, good or bad? I'm looking specifically at Irish pilots, but rumours will do. Thanx.

[signeti]

dont know anything about it . .but if its in ireland , be prepared for bad weather which may extend the length of your course . .its a tough question cos theres no one there to ask that went b4 u , be conservative . .its alot of YOUR money on the line.

[BravoOne]

Have you got a Web Address for the school. I too would be interested in this school.

Regards,. .B1.

[niallcooney]

I don't have a web addres cuz they don't have a website, but I can give u their contact number... I rang them and they said that an fATPL was included in a 36000 Euro price tag!

Contact: 00 353 1 6282930

[frogone]

Do you want to be pay €36,000 to be guinea-pig? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> And let's be honest Weston is a backward airfield compared to facilities in the USA and Continental Europe. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

EIDW

[ElNino]

Getting up in a light aircraft in Dublin at all at the moment is well nigh impossible, and has been for a good while, due to the cross winds and general bad wx. And I have a fATPL so as an SPL, be prepared for very long delays between flights. It will take you a very very long time to complete an ATPL in Ireland. You may appear to save money on not going elsewhere but make damn sure you're not liable for the extra costs of the inevitable delays. . .Also, EIDW is right, Weston ain't no fully equipped airport. I imagine you'd be better off learning at a controlled field with proper navaids.

[niallcooney]

I appreciate everything that everyone's said, but can anyone suggest a way around the problem if u can't get unsecured loans in Ireland, etc? Staying in Ireland saves me maybe 15000-20000 Euro over time which I can use for a CFI or whatever. I'm gonna take a very long tour around the place before I do anything anyway. But thanx for the comments guys.

[BillyFish2]

Have to agree ElNino,

When I came back from sunny overseas with my PPL I thought I'd be out at Weston every other weekend going for jolly's and occasionally getting me mates to chip in for the costs too. Well after numerous visits spread over 3 months, I think I managed to clock up just over 3 hours just trying to get a conversion to a Socata TB9. Eventually (and somewhat devastated about it too) I had to give up. Waiting around weekend after weekend for the cloud cover to shift it's arse so I could demonstrate an emergency landing is not my idea of fun.

Can't imagine how long it would take to do an fATPL there (or a PPL for that matter - a year+?). Plus there was no VOR, DME, NDB, ILS, PAPI, b*gger all really except a good runway. So where do you get your IR - I really don't fancy your chances of getting a light single in and out of DUB without a serious amount of expensive holds.

I'm sure one or two Irish pprune nutters will accuse me of being all sorts for saying above but I can only go on my own experience.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: BillyFish2 ]</p>

[signeti]

If I was good friends with the man in charge of the weather I would set up a flight school in shannon . .the runway is so long , spirals would be no prob :) . .its not half as busy as EIDW and has all the NAV AIDS necessary with faranfore and galway nearby

. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Determined]

<a href="http://www.airportflyingclub.com" target="_blank">www.airportflyingclub.com</a>

[niallcooney]

Is that website some sort of JOKE? A volunteer-run hangar with 1 c150 and one c172? Not even Aerial sounds THAT bad! I haven't even started my PPL! (I will on Friday though!)

[Determined]

What's the joke wannabeboy? The club is one of the most professional in Ireland. A dedicated team of pilots/instructors and the lowest hourly rate around. Combined with flying out of Dublin airport and 2 of the best maintained Cessnas on the Irish registry, I don't think you'll find a better deal. Go do your PPL at Weston...

[niallcooney]

Determined,

I apologise for blowing the website out of proportion, but maybe it doesn't do justice to the club itself... details are quite sketchy etc. I agree that the price is low and the ability to operate out of EIDW is a HUGE bonus. Maybe I'd be better off there! I'll contact them and consider it. Anybody been a student there?

[BillyFish2]

ATPLwannabeboy,

I can find absolutely nothing wrong with the airportflyingclub site or it's contents. All the required information is there, clear + simple, the way it should be. Actually quite tempted myself (barring the weather + v.busy airport), would love to get back into some serious controlled airspace.

Anyway, how many C150's + C172's are you planning using?

A qualified flight instructor is a qualified flight instructor: volunteer, part-time or full-time. And volunteer sounds even cheaper to me!

[niallcooney]

True... with one small problem... no contact details, unless someone can provide me with a phone number? (The email address is inactive in case someone wants to point it out.) I'm not downing the club which seems as professional as some people have pointed out, it just seems as though they don't want anyone to contact them. Maybe they're too busy. If someone know how to contact then without writing a letter (which An Post will only lose), please let me know, I'd be very grateful!

[Determined]

Apology accepted. I disagree about the website. It is well put together and contains everything you'd need. The club is a non-profit organisation. There is no secretary to answer the phone. The contact webpage contains a postal and e-mail address (is active, try again). 90% of members joined as qualified pilots. We have Aer Lingus, Ryanair and Aer Arann skippers amongst members. If you get accepted for ab-initio training, you'll get some excellent instruction. I think 3 or 4 students have gained PPLs in the past 12 months with us. The instructors are volunteers who give up their free time to the student pilots.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Determined ]</p>

[niallcooney]

Determined,

Thanx for the info. As I mentioned the email address seems to be inactive, but my next hour will hopefully be spent in training at your club. Again I apologise for being so negative, it comes with looking for a worthwhile club and trying to find an unsecured loan in Ireland! If there is a more convienient method of contacting anyone at the club, can u let me know? I'm sure it's a great place to network as well! <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Do u do CPL/IR as well? Just a thought! I suppose I would be very lucky just to get a slot!

[BillyFish2]

Determined,

You've got me interested now. I actually didn't know you where there at all until today. Is the club there long?

[Determined]

ATPLwannabe:. .Believe me this is a worthwhile club. If they can take you on as a SPL they will. Yes alot of contacts are made throughout the industry. I'm not going to say yes or no as to post PPL training as I'm not 100% sure. Our CFI is CPL/MULTI/IR however. Most pilots are recreational flyers or hour building around Ireland towards the 150 mark.

BillyFish2: . .The club has been in existence in one form or another for over 20 years.

If you both send me your real names and contact numbers to [email protected] I'll make sure they get to those that count.

[BillyFish2]

e-mail on the way Determined,

I knew of Iona over there years ago, didn't know there was a club too.

Cheers for the info.

[niallcooney]

Mail on the way now, Determined. Appreciate your help.

[erika]

URL is <a href="http://www.airportflyingclub.com/" target="_blank">http://www.airportflyingclub.com/</a> and email is [email protected]. I don't have a phone number. Let me know if you get any answer as I'd be interested in getting some info on them. My email is [email protected]

[IONA]

Hey Determined,

[quote] We have Aer Lingus, Ryanair and Aer Arann skippers amongst members <hr></blockquote>

I may not be the most active member, but don't forget CityJet !!! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Determined]

IONA,

humblest of apologies. We have Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Aer Arann AND Cityjet skippers amongst members <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Determined.

[ppl172]

Hello,

My name is Ciaran Mitchell. I'm the "Membership Secretary" for the Airport Flying Club. I also set up the web site (no joke!) <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

This thread has just come to my attention, so sorry for not replying sooner.

A little info about the club...

We're a non profit, non commercial flying club based in Dublin Airport. We operate two aircraft, a Cessna 172 and a Cessna 150. Both aircraft are in excellent condition and access and availability of the aircraft is excellent.

Our rates are €500 per annum membership plus a *once off* joining fee of €125.

The rental rates of the two aircraft are:

C150: €90.00 per hour (tacho). .C172: €115.00 per hour (tacho)

New members are always very welcome. Simply email me.

Unfortunately, we can only cater for a very limited number of student pilots. The reason for this is that our instructors are part time volunteers. As such, each instructor can train only a limited number of students. Unfortunately at this time, we have no free instructors to take on additional students.

My email address is [email protected]. It is not "inactive". I reply to each and every request I get. If someone on the board has not heard back from me - something is wrong, please let me know by replying in this thread.

If anyone has further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best regards.

Ciaran.

[niallcooney]

Ciaran,

Apologies for suggesting that you account was inactive... problems my end. Your club does indeed seem highly professional and well-run. Congratulations to you and all your members!

[ppl172]

No problem ATPLwannabeboy.

Its interesting Aerial are training to ATPL now. The last time I checked, no one in Ireland could train beyond the PPL because of JAR compliance.. .Do you know if you can now get an IR with them also?

Best of luck with your training.

Ciaran.

[Mister Gash]

I’d recommend the three flying clubs at the Westlands end of DUB for initial PPL training. All operate to the highest standards and DUB provides an excellent, disciplined environment rather than the free-for-all which exists at Weston, an aerodrome which I now refuse to use. The downside is that it may take a bit longer to gain your PPL in any of these clubs, due to the voluntary nature of the instruction.

Apart from the Airport Flying Club, there is the Leinster Club which operates an immaculate 150 Aerobat and the Dublin Flying Club, which operates an Arrow and PA28-140. I believe their Arrow is available for a ridiculous100 euro per tacho hour.

I’ve had a two dealings with Aerial, and on both occasions found them to be quite unhelpful. I’ve done realistic sums on training for fATPL and 36,000 euro sounds incredibly cheap — but I won’t be spending my money there!

Gash

[niallcooney]

Ciaran, I do believe you can do an IR with Aerial, but looking at Gash's experiences with them I would be rather reluctant to get involved even though their rates are reasonably good as well. Gash, can you be more specific about your experiences with Aerial? Regarding wx worries that everyone has, I really don't understand why people are so worried about it... plenty of people train in the UK which has basically the same problem. Just think of all the IFR and marginal VFR practice you'll get! The only reason I would consider Aerial is because as you know it's not worth it to be in a hurry right now as our chances are pretty slim of hopping into the left seat of a a 738 after you get your ATPL, and the saving on accomadation casts alone would be phenomenal. Actually come to think of it I may well offer my services voluntarily to your club Ciaran after I get my CFI. Free PIC hours!

[ppl172]

I actually did my PPL with Aerial before joining Airport Flying Club.

I think there are areas for improvement alright, but I had no complaints. One thing with Aerial I remember is that you tended to get a different instructor almost every time. I think its better if you could be allocated an instructor who could continually track you progress (as with our club). Pretty difficult I guess for an organisation as busy as Aerial.

[Mister Gash]

ATPLwannabeboy,

My decision not to train there is based on two considerations.

Although I have no experience of flight training at Aerial, I’ve had other dealings with them and found their attitude to be pretty dreadful.

In my opinion, flying procedures in the vicinity of Weston leave a lot to be desired and my last two experiences a few years back in the circuit there were enough for me to vow never to visit it again!

Gash

(Edited for stupidity.)

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Mister Gash ]</p>

[niallcooney]

Thanks for the info, Gash. Do Aerial have their own runway and facilities etc... no VASI/ILS/VOR/NDB I assume? Or do they use Dublin Airport facilities? I agree about ATC around Weston... nonexistent. Although I'm sure most other clubs are much better. Were the "bad deals" you had with Aerial related to your training issues, may I ask?

[scroggs]

This thread has become a discussion about certain flying clubs, and is no longer particularly relevant to ATPL Wannabes. Please remember that the Private Flying forum exists for exactly this purpose, and that Wannabes is for issues directly related to the obtaining of a professional flying licence or a first commercial job.. .Unless this thread gets back on that track, I shall move it to Private Flying.

[niallcooney]

Gash,

Ignore what I said about "Were the "bad deals" you had with Aerial related to your training issues, may I ask?"... not reading too well today! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> But does anyone know anything about their airport facilities?

[BillyFish2]

Same as Weston's: same airfield!

<a href="http://www.westonairport.com/flightinfo.html" target="_blank">www.westonairport.com/flightinfo.html</a>

[Mister Gash]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know upon what level of candidate experience this 36,000-euro fATPL price tag at Aerial Advertising is based?

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Mister Gash ]</p>

[niallcooney]

It's SUPPOSED to be ab-initio, but I'd advise you to check that. If it's Weston's facilities I wouldn't be too enthusiatic to tell the truth. I sent a mail to Aerial 2 days ago asking all manner of questions about facilities, pass rates, tours etc, no response yet. I'm starting my PPL today, anyone think the wx is good enough out there?

[BillyFish2]

ATPLwannabeboy,

Here's a really handy site:

<a href="http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/EIDW.html" target="_blank">http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/EIDW.html</a>

At the moment it's recording 18KT from NE direction variable (020V080), which means you may have a slightly bumpy ride. If it's your first flight in a C172 or C152, it may not be ideal - depends on yourself.

Enjoy.

[niallcooney]

Guys,

I just finished my intro flight... great fun and very informative. Just one question. Is it usual to let the student land the aircraft the first time?

[mutt]

ATPLwannabeboy,

Irelands flying schools and clubs are sadly lacking facilites, airplanes and weather. If you have the required money and want to invest in your future, I believe that its best for you to look at some of the JAA Approved schools in the USA or even Europe.

If however you are like a lot of us who couldnt afford to fork out that kind of money and therefore only fly when the money is available, I would suggest that you go to Aerial or the National Flight Center as it's now known.

Good Luck.

Mutt.