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long final
1st Nov 2002, 21:05
When flying abroad I have always left from my home base, a customs airfield, and travelled direct to the destination.

Next week I have a trip planned from a small, non customs field near Cambridge. So my questions are,

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Is there any way of avoiding travelling through a customs airfield, the destination only being Le2k?
If I have to pass through a customs field, Lydd would be my choice, what do I need to do when I get there, or before I set off there, and how long does the procedure normally take?
Is the same procedure needed on the return leg?
This one has for a while been on my mind - Do you, as day trippers to France, always decalre yourselfs to customs? I ask this because it would appear when I have been before no-one was particularily interested in either recieving or checking my info, before, after or during my trip.
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Hope you can help.

Best regards,

LF

IFollowRoads
2nd Nov 2002, 04:42
As you're going to a destination within the EU, there is no requirement for you to notify anybody at your outbound airfield (other than for your flight plan). The French insist (since you are will be arriving from a non-Schengen country) that you arrive first at a customs airfield (which Le2k is).

For the return, you must again leave via a customs airfield (no problem again with Le2k), but if your arrival in the UK is to a non-customs airfield, you must comply with the local procedures. What these are can probably be best obtained from the airfield manager, or failing that, from C & E (suggest you ask the C & E at the nearest customs approved airport, preferably in the same county. If this fails, there are more numbers in the AIP)

FWIW, at White Waltham, we have to give a minimum 4 hours notice of our return time, which in practice means for a lunchtime jolly over, we let them know as we file the outbound flight plan. Should we arrive back before the declared time, we are supposed to sit *in* the aircraft until either the declared time passes, or we are visited by the friendly Customs people.

Something else you may want to consider - Le2k sometimes seem to have a bit of a habit for 'losing' flight plans filed there. Suggest you file both the outbound and inbound in the UK before you depart, if you are VFR, the French are very laid back about your declared and actual 'off chocks' time

hth

IFR

alphaalpha
2nd Nov 2002, 08:02
Long Final:

If you are departing from/arriving at a non-customs UK airfield, your flight and people details need to be notified 12 hours in advance to both customs (who are acting as agents for immigration) and special branch. The same information is required by both:

Names of UK & Foreign departure and arrival airfields
A/c reg; where based; type; owner/operator
ETD (UK); ETA (UK); routing if any intermediate landing
Whether or not you are claiming fueld drawback

For all people on board:
Name; dob; passport no; nationality; travelling out/in/both

This information should be faxed to the National Coordination Unit (Customs) 0870 240 3738.

For Cambs the special branch fax number is 01223 823295.

This info is based on what I do (departing usually from Bourn). If you have on board any non-EU nationals, I would take further advice. Also if returining from a non-EU destination.

If you change your return plans, you should also fax the details. I ghave found this difficult, so have phoned the changes (even at short notice):
Customs 0870 785 3600
Cambridge Special Branch 01223 356590.

You may find customs or special branch meet your return flight. This has happened to me once only.

At Le Touquet, try to go through immigration and customs, but don't be surprised if there is no one there. (If you go to Belgium, you will find they take immigration more seriously).

Don't forget your aircraft docs, licence and photo-id.

Hope this helps.

bookworm
2nd Nov 2002, 10:17
alphaalpha

Where on earth did you get that from?

There's no requirement to notify customs of a departure from the UK to an EU state, wherever you depart from. For the return, you do need to notify customs and immigration. This used to be done through the CCUs, though the NCU took over this role. I've not seen a statement of the notice required -- most CCUs wanted 4 hours, and I'd be surprised if it were 12. It's about time the AIP got revised to reflect this.

Special Branch do not need to be informed of flights to France, though they have the right of inspection of any such flight (more recently, any flight at all) on arrival or departure if they choose to be there. The notification requirement only applies to flights to Ireland, IOM or the Channel Islands from non-designated airports.

foghorn
2nd Nov 2002, 12:01
Correct, you only need to inform Special Branch of flights to Ireland (North and South), the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, not othe destinations.

In fact I accidentally faxed a GA report to Special Branch for a France trip (I was given the wrong phone number), they called me straight back saying that I needn't have bothered them!

I have found that Customs and Immigration are very friendly towards to light aircraft making overseas trips.

bottieburp
3rd Nov 2002, 20:56
I have been flying into France on quite a regular basis from my Midlands farm strip.

I file to Cherbourg, 'clear' there (rarely any customs officers there - closed on Sundays/ Mondays - Close your FP with Lille APP on those days).

On my return I just file direct. I don't notify anybody other than by FP.

THe only time I have ever been met was on my return recently from Waterford. The Pof T requires 24(?) hours notice of out/inbound flights from Ireland. IOM and Channel Islands but SB will happily accept 12.

THe only reason I was met was because I forgot to give sufficient notice (too much black stuff the night before!). The Det Con was really friendly - especially when I offered to take him for a flight over his house!

A word of warning when flying into France.

A good friend filed direct to Dieppe (great restaurant - the Sarajevo just off the market square) instead of via Le Touquet or other designated customs airfield.

Flight Plan accepted - no problem. However, as soon as his wheels touched the ground the gun toting feds clattered in by helicopter, were rude, agressive and finally stiffed him for £200.

Can you imagine a reverse scenario here?

No way!

Great country - obey the rules - enjoy the cheap landing fees, the food, the wine - all great. Like the French themselves? Your choice!

BB

alphaalpha
4th Nov 2002, 19:33
Bookworm:

Hi. I have only just seen your post of 2nd November.

I was trying to provide practical advice to Long Final, rather that an a complete and verified accurate statement of his legal obligations, which I certainly could not provide. I did say that the information I provided was based on what I do.

The advice given to me by customs and special branch is at variance with the requirements as stated both in Jepperson 'Entry Requirements' and, as you say, the AIP.

The source of my information is:

Customs: A proforma 'General Aviation Report' provided by the CCU at Gravesend. The notes with this form asked for 24 hours notice. Gravesend was the unit interested in Cambridgeshire flights, prior to the NCU, and prior to Gravesend it was Ipswich, using the same proforma. The proforma has space on it for all the information listed in my earlier post. NCU have said, in a telephone conversation, that they are happy to accept details on this form and 12 hours notice is OK.

Special Branch: Around the anniversary of 09-11, Special Branch contacted Bourn and stated that they required details of all foreign flights. I was leaving for France in less than hour after their contact, I phoned for clarification. They confirmed the details on the CCU/NCU form were fine for them; that 12 hours notice was required, but less notice was better than none.

Although not directly relevant to this thread, SB Holyhead do require more information on their form and do require 24 hours notice.

It seems to me that it is better to cooperate with the requirements of SB and customs, whether properly promulgated or not, and on this basis I posted my reply about Cambridgeshire to Long Final. SB requirements, in particular, seem to vary around the UK.

I could also have said to Long Final that there seems to be no interest from customs and SB in the majority of flights, but he would not have thanked me if his flight had been the exception.

All the best.

long final
4th Nov 2002, 20:22
Thanks all for taking the time to reply. Taking all into account (or perhaps just taking the bits that seem easier ;) ) it appears all I need to do is file a FP for both trips and possibly inform C&E of my return details.

When I have been before I have just faxed Manchester C&E telling them when, where and who, but I will talk to Cambridge regarding that.

One last thing, I have only ever filed a FP from a destination field, Little Staughton no doubt doesn't have the necessary, so would I file my outbound via Cambridge or somewhere else??

Best Regards,

LF

bookworm
5th Nov 2002, 08:54
alphaalpha

Your advice was indeed practical. I'm sorry if my response was somewhat sharp.

One of the problems I've encountered in the past is that SB itself doesn't have a clear idea of the legal requirements. It doesn't have the right to notice of flights to France, though if an examining officer turns up, his rights of inspection and rights to require information are broad. Since the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 came into force, those rights may be applied to any flight or suspected flight, not just those that cross borders. There is, of course, nothing to stop SB from requesting an airfield to report planned movements, and if that's the case it would seem churlish not to cooperate -- we are, after all, on the same side.


long final

I doubt Cambridge would appreciate being used as an ops and handling service if you don't intend to land there. You may need to send FPL details to AIS Heathrow and make your own arrangements with customs.