Job applications

[The mole]

Has anybody bothered to apply for a job recently? Was there any point?

[Squealing Pig]

Yes, and it keeps your CV near the top of the pile when the upturn comes.

[FL245]

What do you mean, apply for a job.... do you really want a job? if so apply for it, if not dont bother.

These posts drive me mad, when i was looking for a job, i applied for everything going.... i sugguest you do the same.... at times like this you cannot be "choosey"....

pick the companies you want to work for, knock on the back door, network, find people working for the company you want to work for and talk to them, there is a slim chance through the front door.

Times are hard, but there are a small number of people getting jobs... be one of them....

post less on this forum and more letters with stamps to companies, get your finger out....it will happen..

Fl245

[FormationFlyer]

Good advice indeed FL245....advice I myself am following...

All I can say is thank goodness the Royal Mail now issue stamps with 'sticky backs'. Saves the old tongue! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

As for networking - thats the bit im finding difficult - a lot of peeps I have recently got in contact with all work on long haul and are woried enough about their own jobs to concern themselves with a wannabe short haul like myself - whats the secret to networking - where the hell does everyone meet these 'influential' but seemingly either 'nocturnal' or 'mythic' creatures??!

[Midland Maniac]

If you have spent a lot of money getting a frozen ATPL then why would you not bother applying for a job???

Did you not pay for your training yourself??? do you not have bills to pay????

Well I know that I do, and I know that just getting a frozen ATPL does not give me the right to sit in the right hand seat of a Commercial Airliner. In this world it should be obvious that you have to fight for something. You have to make sure that you stand out from the rest and be ready to jump on any opportunity that my come your way.

Sending off CV's and applying for jobs is a ball ache, but as far as I am concerned it is a small price to pay if it gets me a job!!!!!

<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[xabi200]

I reckon CVs are pretty useless,I sent thousands of them b4 and after sept 11th,I did not get a single promising answer.. .I managed to almost get hired twice.. .Before sept 11th I was taken on a screening process for a spanish airline, which got canceled after Sept 11th.. .That was through connection if I would not have known anybody, they would never have considered me.. .Then I went to Ivory coast, there too I've been helped.They told me that when the short360 gets there I'll be hired.But at the last minute they were forced to take on a local pilot.. .Now I'm still waiting for something happening,but all through connection, unfortunately I think that CVs only are useless.. .Why would a company take me on with 400h when they can take on sombody else with much more hours than me, unless it is to please somebody?. .Every single employee of every company must at least know one wannabee. Who are they going to hire? The CV which came by post or the one which got handed directly to the chief pilot?. .Last time I went to the post office it cost me close to £600 pounds in stamps, can't do that every month.

[Grease Weasel]

£600 in stamps??!!!!. .What Post Office was that? You must have applied to every airline in the world!

Keep the CV's going - it only takes one to hit the right desk...

[scroggs]

CVs are important, but networking will get you the contacts. The best environment to network in is the social one. Pprune's various get-togethers (see the Pprune Bashes forum), flying clubs, more formal do's which might be advertised in Pilot/Flyer/Flight or whatever. When you get to one of these pissups, don't be a pain in the arse, but talk to the professional guys there. Arrange, if you can, a visit to their offices/ops setups or wherever, or ask if you can occasionally pick the brain of your chosen 'target'. Get yourself known as a nice person that they might like to work with, and work on expanding your circle of professional contacts.. .Another fruitful source of information and contacts is the Balpa jobs seminars which happen annually, I think. I'm sure the IPA operate a similar arrangement. Don't just turn up, listen, grab a brochure or two and go home. Talk to people, buy a drink or two, ask a few questions.. .Get as many contacts as you can so that, when your CV is finally picked up, someone in that airline might say 'I know this bloke; met him at the last Gatbash - seems OK. Why don't we bring him in for a chat?'.. .That's how it's done, but it takes work and application. Get to it! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[vans]

Mole,. .The most effective way I found to gain employment is not by just writing a letter along with your CV, posting it and then crossing your fingers because it will just get lost in the system. . .You are alot better off giving them a call and ask what the min requirements are and if they can foresee any future vacancies. Be polite and ask them if it would be Ok to post your CV and give them a call from time to time.. .Then in about a fortnight give them another call and see whats new, if possible pay them a visit. You would be suprised how far persistance goes!!. .Note: there will be the ocasional rude operator who will tell you to #$%^ off but that just lets you know who you don't want to work for!. .good luck.

[piperindian]

the market is flooded with applicants. .in uk alone, there are 1200 jobless experienced jet pilots. low-time wannabes will have to wait.. a long time. .Its crazy that some wannabes are still investing 50k in a Jar frozen ATPL considering the abysmal state of the job maket.. .If you like to waste paper and time, you can always send cvs (for Ryanair you have to pay) and make calls. totally useless. . .Even connections dont work anymore in the cuurent climate.. .Its good to be optimistic but a touch of realism is necessary here. Lets hope it improves soon..

[skysailor]

Mole

I am reliably informed by a friend who works for a pilot association, that there are 45 registered airlines in the UK, and about 80 air taxi setups. You probably haven't heard of them, but just be aware that potential employers aren't only easyJet, JMC, Airtours, and all the other well-publicised ones.

I know it is frustrating, and it all seems totally pointless at the moment, but it can't go on forever can it? Just think outside the box.

Like Midland Maniac says, you've got to fight for what you want. And try to think of it as part of your training - it is one thing to pass all the tests and get your blue book in your hand, but it is something completely separate to be the one an employer wants to hire. I know it costs money, but have you considered an interview preparation course, like what CTC offers, or PilotAssist? That may give you some idea of how to present yourself, and may even give you an edge, cos you've obviously made an effort to be attractive to employers. But then again it may work the other way and you'll be TOO perfect.... you never know with this game.

But don't get despondant, the other 1199 low-hour CPLs out there know how you feel... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[The mole]

I guess I didnt ask the right question. I should have asked "Is it worth sending out a CV at the moment?". I have sent many hundreds in the past few years as my 'experience' creeps slowly upwards, and just before sept 11 was in the holding pool of a medium-sized airline. Since then - nothing. . .I am currently instructing at weekends and earning a decent living during the week. This weekend flying is keeping me in the loop and improving my all-important contacts, and building my hours up - slowly.

FL245 - have you recently tried applying for a job as a low-hours(750) frozen ATPL (post sept 11)? Believe me when I tell you it is a pretty grim prospect. EVERY airline wants type-rated pilots only,if they aren't laying off, that is. However, I am not going to 'dis' what you have said because you are right- If I want it to happen then I have to make it happen.

Scroggs - See you at the next Gatbash!

[MorningGlory]

I think (and I know this will sound obvious but) that if you have say 1000hrs tt and a frozen atpl, with the hours from instructing, when the type rated more experienced pilots are re-employed, the frozen atpl'ers with the 1K hrs are more likely to get the interview.. .. .I think, instead of JUST, sending off CV's and networking, building hrs and experience by instructing is the way to go. This all depending of course on whether or not you can an instructing job, part or full time.. .. .How many frozen atpl'ers with 250hrs who have qualified in the last 2 years, have actually got a jet airline job? It would be interesting to know the statistics. Being forearmed with this information would see a lot more people instructing before completing the IR. Any ideas?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Sending in the CV's keep you name towards the top of the list. When they need to recruit they work their way from the top down, and when they have the 20 or so suitable applicants to interview, they stop.. .. .Rumour has it that the CP of one regional airline would take the pile of CV's and throw the bottom half in the bin, saying: "These people are unlucky, and I don't want unlucky people flying for me!". .. .It also pays to make yourself known to the secretary/ ops. assistant/ HR person that has to sort through the CV's. When they come to interview, even if you're not at the top, you want them to think: "I'll give that nice Mr. Mole a chance", and dig your CV out of the pile/ filing cabinet/ cat litter tray.

[FL245]

Mole, every one of us has been in your position.. .. .Why dont you concentrate your efforts in getting an air taxi job flying single crew IFR, that way when the market picks up, you have a lot more experience than most, multi hours are the most valuable.. .. .There are far too many wannabes who turn their nose up at anything thats not a big jet.. .. .Why not telephone the CAA and get a list of AOC holders? Then start calling them and establish if they have any work.... .. .Dont give up, but equally dont sit back, keep looking... .. .Good Luck with your applications, you will make it..