Parking at major airfields..?

[big.al]

Weather permitting, this Saturday I'm flying to Norwich airport and back to pick up a passenger. To my surprise, when I've called Ops at the airport, they have advised me that as I will only be on the ground a short while, I will be directed to park the C150 at the main terminal, rather than in a GA area.

Is this normal for private flights into fairly large airports? I know Norwich isn't all that busy but it does seem a little strange that I may be allocated my own 'departure gate' for one passenger, and have to park alongside F27s, J31s etc.

Has anyone been to Norwich, and if so where were they asked to park? And has anyone else encountered this at similar sized airfields?

Thanks folks!

(PS - hope the blinkin' weather improves by then....)

[andymac]

you'll probably be parked just to the east of the terminal, quite possibly next to a JetStream or similar. To meet your passenger you'll need to access the terminal through the pax entrance.
Gaining access back airside is always the less easy bit.
You'll need proofs of id - licence/passport etc and have your mugshots taken as your details are taken down before being escorted back airside.
Don't forget your yellow flak jacket either!
Good luck, Andy Mac.:)

[FWA NATCA]

bigal,

Try calling the local FBO and asking them what the normal procedures are. I've seen this done at some of the airports that I've worked at in the US, but since 9/11 I didn't think anyone was allowing GA aircraft to park anywhere near the terminal security areas.


Mike

[PhilD]

While we are on the subject of Norwich.... I planned a VFR flight there a couple of months back, and when I called up 10 mins out (as notified) I was told (very abruptly) that they were PPR and that I was not welcome. I assumed at the time that I had missed this in the Jeppesen manual and stayed away. Now I can see in Jeppesen and the AIP that there is no mention of PPR and wonder if they were within their rights to refuse me permission to land.

Fortunately I was not flying there for any particular reason and diverted to Old Buckenham, where I was very welcome and spent a very pleasant afternoon.

[Wrong Stuff]

andymac's spot on - except for the bit about the tabards (to use a new word I learnt the other day) - they're advised but voluntary I believe.

The last two times I was there I was parked on stand 5 - marked on the airfield diagrams if you want to check it. Being picked up by van for the 100 yards to the terminal seems compulsory. Strangely, they don't mind you walking back to the aircraft later. I think the landing fee includes a couple of hours parking.

Careful not to take anything sharp through to the terminal with you. On return to the aircraft they search you & xray your belongings. Dunno what they do if you are carrying a penknife or something - you can hardly pack it in your checked-in luggage.

I've always found it a nice friendly little airport with no pretentions of grandeur.

[sharpshot]

I went earlier this year and ATC were excellent.
It was a claggy day with ILS radiating on 27 but wind calm. So requested straight in on 09 as they seemed very quiet.

Wx was worse than ATIS giving and ATCO vectored me on to 09 and came out on final at a lowish level.......but its flat round there!

Parked on St 5 or 6 and stayed all day. Seemed a bit pricy on parking - think first two hours were free - but ask.

[wet wet wet]

Went there in August and parked on Stand 5 next to a couple of Shorts 330s. Minibus arrived, chap got out, chocked my aircraft then took me the 100m to the terminal. As has been said the security checks to get back airside are impressive, leave anything dodgy (e.g. penknifes) in the plane.

[DamienB]

So, to get something nasty airside at Norwich - fly it in in a Cessna and away you go. :confused:

[niknak]

Phil D.
If you'd bothered to check your notams, you would know that Norwich was PPR on a Sunday only, between about 1400 and 1700:rolleyes: :rolleyes: .
This was due to the fact that there were insufficiant ground staff to handle G/A and the larger than anticipated number of schedule and charter flights that operated in that period in the summer period. This notam was in force from the beginning of May until last week.

As has already been described, you could be parked anywhere on the airfield, which is why the minibus comes to meet you, and will take you back to the terminal.

Security is a fact of life these days, the screeners are only doing what they're told to do by the government, including checking that you are who you say you are, and removing pointy suspicious things from you if you don't leave them in the aircraft.

The landing fees aren't to different from surrounding airfields/airports, if you ring in advance and say you're a training flight, you'll get a hefty (50 -75%) discount.

[distaff_beancounter]

I have always found Norwich, to be one of the best & cheapest distinations for GA. No compulsory & expensive "handling". Reasonable price for landing & parking for a large airport. Usually told to park at stand 5, which is near the terminal & the marshaller gives you a lift in his minibus, to the terminal.

Then, if you want to save the cost of a taxi, you can catch the "Park & Ride" bus into the centre of Norwich. ATC usually very friendly & helpful. Yes, you do have to go through security & have you piccie taken, but that is fairly common these days & we should not complain about it.

At some regional airports, such as Bristol & Luton, you are lucky to get a bill of less than £50 for a S/E, landing, parking & handling. AND you get muttered at if you forget to wear the yellow tabard/waistcoat. :(

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

Have you got an airport pass from the airport you fly out from. The airport i fly out from offer passes to employers / student pilots at the airport. I think they cost around 40-50 pounds and when you have one they allow you access to any airport in the country. The yellow and white ones are for aircrew and so i believe they would minimise security checks a little.

[distaff_beancounter]

Have you got an airport pass from the airport that you fly out from? Nope, but such passes are probably only issued by airports, not small private airfields.

When flying in the UK, as well as abroad, I always carry my passport, pilot's licence, driving licence, AOPA membership card (which has my picture on it), and my local flying school membership card (that also has my digital picture on it). Most airport security (including Norwich) are happy with the passport + pilot's licence.

It seems odd, that there are so many people who oppose National Indentity Cards in the UK, when the ID most acceptable to UK airports, banks & anyone else in authority, is a UK passport! :)

[PhilD]

Unless my reading of Schedule 11 of the ANO is incorrect (http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20001562.htm#sch11) there is no requirement for a pilot on a private flight in the UK to carry an identity document (other than a licence). Whilst I agree that it is sensible to carry something I don't see how the airfield has any legal authority to demand photo ID (any more than my local rail station has).

[distaff_beancounter]

PhilD Strickly legally speaking, I have no doubt that you are perfectly correct.

However, when faced with the security staff at say, Norwich, who demand an ID, with a photo on it, BEFORE that will let you out onto the apron, producing a passport, seems to be the quickest solution.

At many regional airports, GA pilots have to walk past commercial aircraft to get to the little'uns. So presumably the airport security staff owe a duty of care to the commercial passengers, not to let just anyone onto the apron, without checking who they are first.

Whatever the ANO may say, this is just the post Sept 11th realities.

[alphaalpha]

I have visited Norwich on a couple of occasions for instrument refreshers and overnights. ATC and ground staff were helpful. Not overly expensive for a regional airfield, and as nicnak says, you can ask for a discount.

The AOPA aircrew card is a useful, credit card sized, photo id. I always keep it in my wallet, have to be particularly stupid to find myself the wrong side of security with no id. (Also good for discounts at hotels etc).

[Kirstey]

niknak

Phil D.
If you'd bothered to check your notams, you would know that Norwich was PPR on a Sunday only, between about 1400 and 1700
-------------------------------

completley unneccassary. Another keyboard warrior comes to irritate me.

[PhilD]

Kirstey - I assumed from the supercilious tone that niknak never misses any NOTAM details. Obviously anyone who does falls into the 'can't be bothered' category.

[Troy Tempest]

Interesting thing about the ID cards. I was refused entry onto a moderate sized airport for a flying lesson with a school based there because I had no photo ID. I was with the instructor and this was my third lesson however none of us realised I needed my passport! Found something semi official with a photo on which was accepted (eventually) but caused some problems none the less.

[bpilatus]

Kirstey and PhilD

Have a look at ATSU and NOTAMS (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69630)

niknaks post is about three or four in - and its obvious he/she is a ********.

[niknak]

Kirstey, PhilD and Pilatus.

By all means insult me if I'm wrong, but, as even the most basically qualified pilot knows, if you can't access notams, ring up the airfield before hand to find out what is going on.

I assume that you're the all - knowing pilots who don't need to know such basics, and conduct yourselves in an equally cavilier fashion when flying.

Don't worry, we all have encountered the type - "dickheads".
:rolleyes:

[big.al]

Why is it that six out of every ten topics I post on PPruNe turn into a slanging match between contributors? Us pilots are a fairly rare breed and we should be sticking together for the good of our hobby or profession (whichever applies to you) in order to overcome the objectors and the NIMBYs, not having a go at one another all the time.:(

Anyway, the weather is brightening up so fingers crossed for my Norwich visit tomorrow. Thanks to all those who responded with positive, useful contributions. I will ensure I carry passport, photo-card driving licence, PPL, medical certificate, high-vis jacket and signed authorisation from the Pope if that's what I need to get back airside. Not sure what ID my passenger will need but I'll suggest Mum brings her passport too....

[singaporegirl]

big.al

Enjoy your trip to Norwich tomorrow. At least the forecast is looking good. :)

Like the others, I've always found Norwich to be helpful and friendly. It might be worth brushing up on your marshalling signals as well; the first time I landed there it was a bit of a shock to have someone waving fluorescent bats at me and then coming to put chocks under the wheels! I felt really important. :D And all for half the landing fee at my normal airport...

[rustle]

PhilD,

Unless my reading of Schedule 11 of the ANO is incorrect...

If only things in life were so simple that reading one document gave you all the necessary info.

Sadly not. In this instance any request for additional ID may be legitimate under the 2001 Anti Terrorist rules. (cf the Newcastle SB rules, now relaxed)

Common sense will prevail, but it's far quicker to carry some photo-ID when you want to return airside!

Exeter give you a pass "out" which must be re-presented to get back airside - seems to work well enough.

big.al,

Hope the weather is better tomorrow than it is here currently :)

[big.al]

Thanks for the advice Singaporegirl. I've never been marshalled yet, and so the table-tennis bat waving will be a new experience, so I shall be revising the Air-Law books tonight to get my marshalling signals right.

If I remember rightly, if the marshaller is waving his/her left arm up and down, they want me to turn to the right, and vice versa. Is this correct? (it's been a while since the Air Law exam!).

PhilD - bright and sunny here in S. Yorks at the moment, but I haven't seen an updated forecast for tomorrow yet. Chance of frost tonight, but it's the possibility of fog patches first thing that could be more of a problem. Expecting to leave Netherthorpe at 9.30am local..... Hope it brightens up in your neck-o-the-woods too.

[Who has control?]

We are planning to visit Norwich on Sunday, but I think we'll give the Met a good scrutiny before deciding.

[big.al]

WHC - don't forget the PPR Sunday afternoon - as has been mentioned earlier in the thread. Hope you have a good trip, wx permitting.

[FlyingForFun]

If I remember rightly, if the marshaller is waving his/her left arm up and down, they want me to turn to the right, and vice versa. Is this correct?
Nope - other way around. It makes sense, as long as the marshaller is facing you. He waves his left arm up and down, which is the arm on the right as you look at him. That means that he wants the right hand side of your aircraft to continue moving, but not the left - i.e. you could apply left brake to get the desired effect, and hence turn to the left. (Of course you wouldn't use left brake, you'd use the rudder pedals, but it's a handy way of thinking about it - the side that's waving keeps moving, and the side that stops, stops.)

Oh boy, I hope I've got that right!

Remember, though, that the signals are the same regardless of which way the marshaller is facing. For example, he could be standing off to your left, waving both arms up and down. That means you have to move forward. It does not mean you have to turn towards him - although that's what you'd probably want to do in that scenario.

Have fun!

FFF
----------------

[skygazer]

FFF, having read your post a couple of times, I think you've just confirmed what Big Al thought in the 1st place; left arm waving up and down when the marshaller is facing you means turn to the right? (as the marshallers right side will be moving if facing you, even though its his left arm).

Doesn't it?

[FlyingForFun]

No. I've just checked with my ATPL notes, and I definitely got it right.

To quote from the Bristol notes:

Turn to your left:

Right arm downard, left arm repeatedly moved upward-backward. Speed of movement indicating rate of turn.

You're right, the marshaller's right side (as you view it) will be moving. His left side will be stationary. So you apply your left brake, i.e. turn to the left.

This would be so much easier with a picture!

FFF
-----------

[distaff_beancounter]

This is my method of remembering it.

So if the marshaller is moving his left arm, (which is on your right) then you open up the right engine, to make the aircraft turn left.

So whichever side you are looking at:-

Busy Side Arm = Busy Side Engine

OR:-

Stationary Side Arm = Apply Brake on that Side

[niknak]

Big Al
You're absolutely spot on - I shouldn't have spoilt the drift of the thread by taking the bait.

Enjoy your trip tommorrow - no doubt we'll talk to each other.;)

[PhilD]

Big Al

Right now where I am it's:

EGLC 191120Z 26010KT 9999 FEW025 09/01 Q1020=

It looks like great flying weather. Unfortunately I'm on the ground at work not up there and the flying will have to wait until next weekend....

Hope you have a great trip

PhilD