Smoking

[Brown eyes]

What does everyone do when they find a pax smoking in toilet? Would you get them arrested on landing or give them a second chance?

I have had people met by the police when they give you absuse because you put out their cig. But once when i was closing down the overhead lockers i came across an old man (who genuinely didint know) smoking in his seat. Other pax were watching him in amusement. He couldnt stop apologising the whole flight.

[TightSlot]

Depends on their attitude

[smile]

Brown Eyes-- I can only imagine that finding a pax smoking on board is a difficult situation. But first things first -- you need to find the butt!! Now after having a fruitless search you need to go ask the 'suspect chimney' what they did with it. This person knows full well that smoking on an aircraft is a Federal offence and can picture themselves being met at the other end by a couple of big boys in uniform—so they deny having a smoke until they go blue in the face.

It is a lose - lose situation. I am lucky enough not to have had any-one sneak a quick smoke in the toilets on my shifts—although I did have a gentleman sitting in the second last row spend the entire trip rolling cigarettes in his seat. Towards the end of the flight he jumps off and heads for the loo with one hanging out of his mouth. I head him off at the door and remind him of the Law and suggest he pop the cigarette back in its packet before going to the loo. He followed my instructions only to reappear from the loo a minute or two later with another one hanging out of his mouth. I checked the toilet and there was no smell of smoke—obviously he was just trying to be cheeky.

But it just goes to show that people really don’t understand how important this law is!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[cargosales]

Smile:

I thought the ban had more to do with passenger comfort.

In the past, how many aircraft were actually lost or had serious problems e.g. fire because of people smoking? Or currently on those airlines which still allow smoking?

CS

[cloud nine]

I have never come across the problem of having to face a pax that has been smoking on one of my flights. Probably because our flights are to short. But if I did, I think that Id take smiles' approach and want to know EXACTLY where the butt was placed. 99.9% of pax do realise that smoking on an aircraft is not allowed, and in that case that is definatley more worrying as they would try to hide the butt, possibly in the waste paper bin :confused: Where as if smoking was allowed, pax would just be butting out in the ashtrays and all would be safe. Like Smile suggests, my biggest fear would be finding a fire caused by a butt in the waste paper bin!:eek:

[ferris]

There have been at least 2 accidents attributed to smoking in toilets starting a fire that led to loss of ALL on board. Search the air disaster sites for details. One was a DC10, and I can't remember the other type, EgyptAir? Hundreds lost. In the more famous of the 2, the aircraft made it onto to the ground, but everyone onboard was dead from the fumes (the pilots passed out during landing roll). That's how they could determine the cause.
Makes you wonder how many more unexplained hull-losses were caused this way. There's a lot of plastic in planes.

[TightSlot]

My original "depends..." post should also have said that details of the incident, (and the attitude diplayed) would be passed to the commander, and he/she would then make a decision as to how to proceed (prosecution or warning).

I take it as a given tht any smoking incident would involve a full toilet waste and compartment inspection for hotstuff.

cargosales

There have been hull losses associated with smoking - varig 707 @ paris is the usual one cited. Banning smoking benefits airlines in a number of ways, customer relation being just one. There are also engineering issues to do with the cleaning and maintenance of aircraft, and insurance premiums for non vs smoking aircraft. Finally, there's legislation in other countries and potential litigation from pax and crew.

[brakedwell]

ferris.
You ought to get your facts right before spouting off. I know of no DC10 ever being lost through smoking. With regards your statement: "the other type, Egyptair? Hundreds lost," I think you are alluding to a Saudia L1011 which caught fire after a hydraulic leak in the rear fuselage, made it on to the ground, but then everyone died on board due to smoke inhalation. Smoking on aircraft was permitted for years and was not considered a safety factor. Then the vocal PC anti-smoking brigade began to work on public opinion. Airlines were happy to oblige with a smoking ban as it meant less maintenance (ie cleaning) of the cabin conditioning systems. Now you have to put up with bad tempered smokers and an ever increasing number of air rage incidents.

[cargosales]

Brakedwell:

Mmm. Food for thought there. Has anyone ever thought to study air rage incidents and work out what proportion of the people involved are drunk, smokers and especially smokers who have had too much to drink?

I'm a fairly heavy smoker and find it infuriating not to be able to, on long haul flights especially. My answer is to have a number of stiff drinks and to go to sleep (which is what I do when p*ssed). Many people don't - see any town centre on a Saturday night for proof of that. Could the smoking ban indirectly be responsible for the rise in air rage?

CS

[jmccrew]

In the 70s a british airtours 707 suffered a major toilet fire due to passenger putting ciggie in paper bin .. Major problem crew have is unless they catch the person smoking the police are powerless, the fact they smell of smoke is not a good enough reason . Where as i am a smoker i perfer to operate as we do now and ban smoking on flights . I have been flying over 20 years and well remember the smoking days of flying . thankfully the days of nicotine brown condensation dripping from the cabin ceiling, of an a/c whose aircon was working over time trying to keep the a/c cool, whilst on the ground are long gone . as regards air rage don't think this can be laid at the door of no smoking many factors conribute . booze ,drugs, leg room ,delays take your pick !

[ferris]

People like you really annoy me. Bitter old bloke, are you?

This thread is about smoking, and undeniably people have died on aircraft due to smoking.

You will note my post was vague on the facts- because they are there if you want to waste your time and look.

So, for the benefit of anal-retentive a*seholes like yourself, interested only in shooting people down rather than contributing:

2/6/83 Air Canada DC-9 (sorry not a DC-10)
Dallas-Toronto. Landed with a lavatory fire. 23 killed by fire when main door opened, fuelling fire.

11/7/73 Varig B707
Paris (Orly) Landed with toilet fire. 123 dead, overcome by fumes before they could be evacuated.

Specific enough for you?

Apologists for the cigarette companies really are a sad lot (note the date of Varig- 1 9 7 3, you know, back when it was 'safe').

[brakedwell]

Ferris. I may be old, but I am not bitter. After forty years of flying, I am now a happily retired ex-smoker. I agree the DC 9 in Canada (the one in the training film) was a smoking related accident and a tragedy that should never have happened. I'm not sure whether the Varig one was proven to be caused by a smoker, faulty toilet pumps can get very hot. However, smoking bans will encourage hard core nicotine addicts to find ways round them, and it will most likely mean smoking in toilets (and disabling smoke detectors) which was were the fire started in previous accidents. I also agree with other postings that the cabin did suffer from nicotine-itis, which was bad. It was also noticeable from the smell on their uniforms, who was or was not working in the smoking sections when they visited the flight deck for a quick fag! But then, that was a thing of the past.
Don't sit in the sun too long, it addles the brain.

[ferris]

No need to apoligise. Nobody expects it.

I like your thinking- smokers can't control themselves, so just let them smoke. Yes, yes, that will work.

I don't know about the sitting in the sun addling the brain, but 40 years riding in the upper atmosphere being irradiated by it obviously does a lot of harm.