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Naples Air Center, Inc.
4th Sep 2002, 16:40
I am writing this thread because there is still much confusion about what the requirements are to fly or train in the U.S.A. Please do not let the length of this post stop you from reading it. Look at numbers 1 to 5, to decide whether or not need a Visa. If you are required to have a Visa, it is very important to make sure you understand the steps you must follow. The process is straight forward and there are people that will help you every step of the way.

On the 12th of April 2002 the immigration rules changed and affected flight training in the U.S.A.

Who needs a Visa and what type will you need:

1) If you are coming to hour build or a flying holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)

2) If you need to convert your licence to a Restricted F.A.A. Licence, you will need to submit the request to the F.A.A. in Oklahoma City so they can do a full background check; this process takes upwards of 60 days. If you get the o.k. to convert your licence you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver.

If you do not have the time to wait to convert your licence, you can take the F.A.A. Written Test and the Flight Test in order to get an Unrestricted F.A.A. Licence. In order to do this you will need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)

If you decide not to convert your licence and just fly on an F.A.A. Student Solo Certificate, you will once again need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since it is a Student Licence)

3) Going to the U.S.A. in order to train for a J.A.A. or F.A.A. Licence. You must be on a F-1, M-1, J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)

4) If you are coming to the U.S.A. in order to revalidate you licence, either F.A.A. or J.A.A., you can come on a Visa Waiver since that is a currency requirement and you are not adding a Rating/Licence. This is subject to change since the authorities are looking at this situation and there are people in I.N.S. which want this to require a Visa.

5) If you have entered the U.S.A. on holiday and while here decided to do flight training. Should you want to train in the U.S.A. after you arrive in the U.S.A. and are on a B Visa, you can apply to change your status to F-1/M-1/J-1 Visa and must wait till your status is changed before you can begin training. If you entered the U.S.A. on a Visa Waiver, you will have to leave the country, obtain the appropriate Visa and then return to train. The Visa Waiver is NOT a Visa and therefore you do not have a Visa to change status on.

Where do you find the information:

If you have any questions about what Visas you are required to have, contact the U.S. Embassy in your country. They are the direct source. Anything else is "hear say", even this thread is technically "hear say". The U.S. Embassy will give you definitive answers on any requirements on entering the U.S.A.

The most common Visa for J.A.A. flight training in the U.S.A. is the M-1 Visa. Here is a thread which I posted on October 03, 2001 explaining the M-1 Visa:

M-1 Visa Explained (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7484)

The changes since that thread was posted are:

When you go to the Embassy you need to bring:

1) A letter from the school you are going to attend listing the max takeoff weight of the aircraft or simulator you are going to train in.

2) Completed Form DS-0156 (http://travel.state.gov/DS-0156.pdf)

3) Completed Form DS-0158 (http://travel.state.gov/DS-0158.pdf)

4) Completed Form DS-0157 (http://travel.state.gov/DS-0157.pdf) (If you are Male between the ages of 16 and 45)

This process will take on average 7 to 10 days.

What are the actual INS Regulations:

These are the rules which were added on 12th of April 2002 by FR 11-02 in order to close the loopholes in flight training:

Requiring Change of Status From B to F-1 or M-1 Nonimmigrant Prior to Pursuing a Course of Study (http://www.ins.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/fr/fr-80865/fr-83683?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#fr-67fr18062)

The changes were made to:

8 CFR PART 214 -- NONIMMIGRANT CLASSES (http://www.ins.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-9606/slb-17082?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-cfrp214)

and

8 CFR PART 248 -- CHANGE OF NONIMMIGRANT CLASSIFICATION (http://www.ins.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-9606/slb-26759?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-cfrp248)


The Visa Waiver Program:

8 CFR PART 217 -- VISA WAIVER PROGRAM (http://www.ins.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-9606/slb-21126?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-cfrp217)

Note the Visa Waiver Program does not allow any training of any kind in the U.S.A.

If anyone tells you to lie to the Immigration Officer when you enter the country (ie. say you are on holiday), that means they know the Laws and are knowingly telling you to Violate them. Be sure to check with the U.S. Embassy if you have any questions.

I hope this helps anyone wanting to fly in the U.S.A. enter the U.S.A. correctly.

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

BRL
5th Sep 2002, 00:12
Thats a brilliant post Richard. Many thanks indeed for taking the time out for posting that. There can not be too many questions now that need answering after that post. :)

PPRuNe Towers
5th Sep 2002, 01:18
mattpilot,

Richard spent a long time collating, checking and typing out all the information. He did so at our direct, written request. However, we are both very conscious that the post is there as a service to wannabees and must not be construed as any form of promotion.

He'd prefer you to get in touch exactly as you would any other commercial organisation and would encourage you to speak to several others. Please mail me when you have read this post so I can remove all but the vital information for wannabees. It will be updated each time we become aware of any significant change.

Rob

Charlie Zulu
16th Jan 2003, 17:16
Hello All,

The US Embassy in London has introduced an additional requirement for the application of Non-Immigrant Visas this month (January 2003).

They now require *all* applicants between the ages of sixteen and fifty nine to attend the Embassy with all required paperwork for a formal interview with regards to the application. Sixteen to Fifty Nine year olds are no longer able to apply for Non-Immigrant Visa's (inc M-1) by post.

URL: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/interview.htm

I thought it would be wise to let you all know, even though those of you who will be applying for this type of visa will be checking the US Embassy website for the latest information.

This information is for UK people only, I am unable to comment on applications from other countries / citizens.

My interview is for the 28th of January... applying for an M-1 so I can go to NAC in April for the FAA CPL/IR course. :-)

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu

BRL
16th Jan 2003, 18:27
Thanks for passing on that info CZ I will stick this for a while just in case anyone is off over there soon. :)

FlyingForFun
17th Jan 2003, 08:17
CZ,

Since you are obviously going through this process at the moment, can you give us an idea how long the whole thing takes, from start to end? Or is it too soon for you to have a good idea yet?

(I'm thinking of going to the US to do some training towards the end of this year. Haven't made a definite decision yet, but will obviously need to make that decision in plenty of time to get the paperwork sorted out!)

Thanks,

FFF
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Charlie Zulu
17th Jan 2003, 10:58
FlyingForFun,

I paid my deposit to NAC back in October and received the I-20M form (the yellow one) together with the letter to the Immigration Counsel within the post two weeks later (beginning of November). They have also added me to the ISEAS computer system. Without these and being entered onto the computer system you are not able to apply for a visa.

Although I was then ready to apply, I didn't apply for the visa before christmas as I'm not going until the end of April so thought I would wait until the new year. However I spent nearly half a day reading up on the M-1 visa application process on the US Embassy website and filling in the required format hat I had printed off.

As I had some spare time and checked the US Embassy website to check if any of the process had changed and found that an interview is required, I called the US Embassy on Tuesday and they gave me the earliest interview date which was the 28th of January. Before then I should have through the post a paying in slip that I am required to pay into the bank before my interview (£67 non-refundable application fee).

As far as I am aware the visa should be approved and issued within a couple fo days after the interview.

I was speaking to someone who had their interview yesterday and he said that his interview was quite a relaxed affair, about 10 minutes in total. The worst part was waiting around for an 1 and a half hours for his number to be called out. They also informed him that his application was successful and they would be sending out his visa yesterday evening. (I'm not sure if he has received it yet though). However I am not sure if this is normal as they do say on the embassy website that it will take a couple of days to process the application.

So in total the process has taken me 10 weeks, probably a total of 3 months by the time it has been issued. But I am sure you could get the process down to 4-5 weeks if you don't delay it like I did!!!

I will provide more information after my interview/visa has been issued.

Hope this helps.

Charlie Zulu

PS. What course are you thinking about going over to the USA for?

FlyingForFun
17th Jan 2003, 11:13
Thanks, CZ!

I'm thinking of doing my CPL over there. I believe there are at least 2, possibly 3, schools which are UK-approved to run a JAR CPL course, and I will contact all 3 of them, as well as several others in the UK and other European countries, before I make my choice. But I need to pass all the exams first!

FFF
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G SXTY
21st Jan 2003, 16:11
Yes, that timescale is about right. I applied to NAC at the beginning of December and received the I-20 about 10 days later. I thought I’d be really organized and get all the visa forms in advance, so I was just waiting on the I-20 – until I discovered my passport had gone AWOL. :eek:

New passport issued 30th December, and 1st available interview at the embassy was the 14th of Jan. As CZ says, the only hassle with the appointment is the hanging around for nearly 2 hours, waiting to be seen. The interview itself was very brief, and they confirmed there and then I would get the visa – it duly turned up a couple of days later.

All fairly painless.

Charlie Zulu
22nd Jan 2003, 14:44
G-SXTY,

When are you going to NAC and which courses are you going over for? I'm going on the 26th April for a month...

Just under a week to my interview, hopefully they'll give me a yes or no at my interview also.

FlyingForFun,

Good luck with the exams.

I'd be tempted to go and do my JAR CPL over in the USA as well, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth my while as with an FAA CPL/IR I'll have quite a lot of flying credit towards the JAA CPL/IR course. Just a shame I'll still be required to do the JAA ATPL exams. :-)

VORTIME
27th Jan 2003, 18:31
Other than the fact everyone here is going to NAC (and who can blame them - from expeirence - first class operation), I hope to go to the US and do a course in a smaller operation that doesn't have VISA approval. Does this close off all avenues?

I will be recording P1 throughout the course and already have a FAA flight-test issued ticket.

VT

Charlie Zulu
29th Jan 2003, 15:23
Hi VORTIME,

If the training you are going to be undertaking will lead towards a licence, be it an FAA or other such as JAA, then my belief is that you will most definately require a Visa.

In order to obtain, say an M-1 visa you will require a flight school who are approved to send out I20M forms, these forms are required to apply to the US Embassy for your visa, without one the US Embassy will not issue an M-1 visa.

IIRC a BFR doesn't count as training towards a licence as you already have the licence, you are just revalidating it.

By the way my Interview experience at the US Embassy in London yesterday:

1) Stood in a long queue for 1 1/2 hours in front of the temporary fence that surrounds the the Embassy. It was very very cold and the wind was gusting (nearly knocking over the security guards tent at one point). I am so glad it didn't rain until I got inside (forgot my umbrella) and that I took my hat and gloves with me.

2) Eventually got inside, went through the xray, metal detector thingy, then lined up in the interview room for another 1/2 an hour. I was so glad the heating was on as I had to thaw out!

3) Handed my forms and passport to the lady behind the counter and was issued a ticket number (aka Tesco Cheese Counter).

4) Waited for half an hour and then my number was called. Now for the interview, which I can remember the dialog (near enough):

Embassy: "Hi Richard, where did you hear about Naples Air Center?"
Me: "I was recommended NAC by a friend who completed his Instrument Rating there last year."
Embassy: "So how long do you plan on going over for?"
Me: "Four weeks, flying out ont he 26th of April and departing on the 24th May."
Embassy: "I think that covers it, your visa application has been successful, I'll send you the visa and passport back to you in the special delivery envelope within a couple of days."
Me: "Thank you".

Took a minute (if that!). So 2 1/2 hours with a minute interview. I was longer at the security xray thingy!!!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

G-AMMY
11th Feb 2003, 18:13
I already have an M-1 visa for flying in the US. My passport ran out last week and just wondering if anyone knows if the M-1 visa in my old passport is still valid when used with my new one. I got my new passport in through the post today. I thought I would ask here before ringing the US Embassy Visa line at £1.50per/min for advice.

Thanks

EGPFlyer
11th Feb 2003, 20:30
The info you need is here (http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/niv/faq_visas.htm#two)